Call Me Debbie Downer (Warning! Future Sight Vanilla Spoiler)

[GrimJack]

Im getting pretty disheartened over Future Sight. Looking over the latest updates to the spoiler, I count SIXTEEN VANILLA or ESSENTIALLY VANILLA cards. I hear a lot of people saying Future Sight is a legalized Un-Set, but Im not getting it.

Now that 85% of the spoiler is available, Im certain I wont get a box. Most players buy boxes to get 4x playsets of common & uncommon cards to play with. A box will only net you 36 rares or so, so you wont get a complete set without trading.

I like complete sets. Im going to buy a 1x complete set and pick up the rest of the playable uncommons through purchasing singles. And I admit, there are plenty of uncommons in Future Sight that absolutely rock.

Question: How often do you feel compelled to play with vanilla cards though? Other than drafting/sealed, not often for me.

The general rule for me, in a casual constructed, a card needs some form of acceleration, card advantage or a neato-skeeto ability to be included. Generic creatires or creature pumpers pretty much are excluded form my decks, unless its obscenely underpriced (I mean really obscene) or it meets a particular theme.

Heres a Spoiler of the Vanilla cards in Future Sight, just in case you didn?t realize how many vanilla creatures and effects there actually are. Don?t read any further if you want t o keep the Spolier secret until the Pre-release:

Vanilla (5)
Blade of the Sixth Pride - 1W - Creature - Cat Rebel (C) - 3/1
Blind Phantasm - 2U - Creature - Illusion (C) - 2/3
Mass of Ghouls - 3BB - Creature - Zombie Warrior (C) - 5/3
Fomori Nomad - 4R - Creature - Nomad Giant (C) - 4/4
Nessian Courser - 2G - Creature - Centaur Warrior (C) - 3/3

Essentially Vanilla (11)
Gift of Granite - W - Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Flash
Enchanted creature gets +0/+2.

Luminthread Field - 1W - Enchantment (C)
Creatures you control get +0/+1.
Morph 1W

Cutthroat il-Dal - 3B - Creature - Human Rogue (C)
Hellbent - Cutthroat il-Dal has shadow as long as you have no cards in hand.
4/1

Putrid Cyclops - 2B - Creature - Zombie Cyclops (C)
When Putrid Cyclops comes into play, scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. Putrid Cyclops gets -X/-X until end of turn where X is that card's converted mana cost.
3/3

Gathan Raiders - 3RR - Creature - Human Warrior (C)
Hellbent - Gathan Raiders gets +2/+2 if you have no cards in hand.
Morph - Discard a card
3/3

Mist of Rage - 1R - Sorcery (U)
Buyback 2
Creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn.
Storm

Cyclical Evolution - 3GG - Sorcery (U)
Target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn. Remove Cyclical Evolution from the game with three time counters on it.
Suspend 3 - 2G

Imperiosaur - 2GG
Creature - Lizard (U)
Spend only mana produced by basic lands to play Imperiosaur.
5/5

Kavu Primarch - 3G
Creature - Kavu (C)
Convoke
Kicker - 4
If the kicker cost was paid, Kavu Primarch comes into play with four +1/+1 counters on it.
3/3

Muraganda Petroglyphs - 3G
Enchantment (R)
Creatures with no abilities get +2/+2.
Petrified Plating - 2G
Enchantment - Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+2.
Suspend 2 - G

You may notice I consider cards like the MtG preview ?Gathan Raiders? as vanilla. I know it has two abilities (Morph and Hellbent) but in essence this card is vanilla. As a creature, it really doesn?t offer anything in either the 2/2, the 3/3, or 5/5 form. Its pretty plain, and doesn?t do anything except for being a critter. IMO, that?s vanilla.

Same idea for the vanilla instants and enchantments. Other than giving a creature +2/+2, they don?t really do anything except make boring creatures bigger. Combat tricks don?t impress me much.

Anyways, Im ranting. Im dissapointed with the set on the whole, after a few promising preview ealry.

Call me Debbie Downer, but 1x of Future Sight is (mostly) OK with me. Hopefully I?ll be wrong once I play a few games with the new cards. We?ll see.
John

(Post script removed 4/19/07. My bad.)

<font color="#C0C0C0" size="1">[ April 19, 2007 08:11 AM: Message edited by: GrimJack ]</font>

[kerbythepurplecow]

What about things like Isumaru, Savannah Lions, even Kird Ape? Those are all vanilla (or near vanilla with the Kird Ape), but they're all quite playable.

As to FS, reading though the spoiler as a whole, I am unimpressed. I am interested in the mash of abilities, but I don't see a billion things begging for play. The Augers suck, the Magusi are just okay, and Grandeur blows. But, I'm still going to give it a chance. My final judgement for a set usually comes after the prerelease. I like getting my hands on the cards and digging into them. Seeing how they interact. Sometimes I've overlooked things. Other times not *coughlegionscough*

Back to vanilla, the fact that there's an enchantment that pumps vanilla kinda makes me want to give it a whirl. If nothing else at least the new vanilla cards are sweet looking.

[jrr]

While I am not as excited as I initially was (due to rumors that were very close to true but endedup a little off among other things) I'm still enjoying what I see coming from the set.

As far as the vanilla flavoring you speak of, you have neamed mostly commons and either underpowered or narrow uncommons... whats wrong with that? I've seen plenty of sets with way more chaff in them.

More than anything I like what this set has shown about the future of the game. There is a lot more to come and while a lot of things might feel thinned out here, Lorwyn should be a lot of fun.

[kerbythepurplecow]

He's noting the chaff in reference to buying a the set by the box. If you buy a box and there's lots of chaff in common and uncommon, most of what you get will be the chaff.

For a long time now I've hated draft. Not because I dislike drafting, but because of what it does to sets. COPs become uncommon, those narrow cards fill spots, it's just icky. I like to draft, but balancing a set for constructed and draft makes it weaker overall, or so I believe.

[GrimJack]

Originally posted by kerbythepurplecow:
I like to draft, but balancing a set for constructed and draft makes it weaker overall, or so I believe.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Me too.

[GrimJack]

Originally posted by kerbythepurplecow:
He's noting the chaff in reference to buying a the set by the box. If you buy a box and there's lots of chaff in common and uncommon, most of what you get will be the chaff.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats my point exactly. There are a few (5 or 6) uncommons that I like, but Im not willing to buy a whole box just to get them. There is too much vanilla chaff that will sit idle in my "extras" box to justify it.

Im going to get my 1x complete set, and just pick up the 4x playset of the uncommons I want as singles.

[TheAbe]

Originally posted by GrimJack:
Im getting pretty disheartened over Future Sight. Call me Debbie Downer....
<font color="#C0C0C0"><font size="1">[ April 17, 2007 04:34 PM: Message edited by: GrimJack ]</font></font>

<font color="#C0C0C0"><font size="1">[ April 17, 2007 04:35 PM: Message edited by: GrimJack ]</font></font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please note that FS does more than previous funky mechanics. It also previews different viewa of the color pie, different creature types, and whatnot.

A vanilla creature can be great - See Watchwolf or Isamaru.

The white creature thats 3/1 is very interesting, because it demonstrates a different view of white. The 3/3 for 2G is the cheapest mon-green has ever had a valinna 3/3 for. Considering that 1GG 3/3 vanilla creatures wiere the backbone of winning tournament decsk that 2G disadvanatge creatures have been the backbone, a vanilla 3/3 for 2G is really something to cheer about.

Some of the "Sorta" vanilla ccreatures that you mention are likewise good, like Imperisuar. Note that an enchantment that has morph is IN NO WAY a vanilla or pseudo-vanillla creature. It is a very interesting way to craft a card that will have serious deck building considerations.

Then you have the "I don't like them so I' mcalling them vanilla" cards like flyer, which makes it non-vanilla with a great foirecast ability. Give a creature shadow? In White? Over and over again? That's very, very good. A 3/1 with shadow is vanilla - and its also a house.


You have a very skewed view of cards if you think a 3/1 shadow or a 2/1 flyer with forecast - give a creature shadow is bland.

<font color="#C0C0C0" size="1">[ April 18, 2007 05:06 PM: Message edited by: kerbythepurplecow ]</font>

[kerbythepurplecow]

That's probably the best idea. Actually, that's probably the best idea for most sets. Although, there is nothing quite like the feeling of cracking pack after pack. But then again, there's the disappointment every time you pull a junk rare. Yet, the double foil pack is hot.

[GrimJack]

Originally posted by TheAbe:
A vanilla creature can be great - See Watchwolf or Isamaru.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You missed where I said obscenely undercosted vanilla were worthwhile.

The white creature thats 3/1 is very interesting, because it demonstrates a different view of white. The 3/3 for 2G is the cheapest mon-green has ever had a valinna 3/3 for. Considering that 1GG 3/3 vanilla creatures wiere the backbone of winning tournament decsk that 2G disadvanatge creatures have been the backbone, a vanilla 3/3 for 2G is really something to cheer about.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps, but I do not see either of these cards making it into my 600 card mega deck which has a pretty liberal level of inclusion. Do you plan on putting the the W and G vanillas in to your deck of happiness & joy?

Note that an enchantment that has morph is IN NO WAY a vanilla or pseudo-vanillla creature. It is a very interesting way to craft a card that will have serious deck building considerations.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In what way? You get a vanilla 2/2 or an over costed bad enchantment. Is a +1 toughness combat trick really that fantastic in constructed play?

You have a very skewed view of cards if you think a 3/1 shadow or a 2/1 flyer with forecast - give a creature shadow is bland.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are correct & I am wrong here. I am removing those seven cards on the verge of vanilla from my commnents. Even though most of them are overcosted. Just because they arent good doesnt make them vanilla.