And yes, we WILL have a Guild Website again, we are still working on the details and will try to keep you informed.
Well guys. This might be opening a can of worms but here goes.
Below is a PROPOSED set of guild rules for LDK. It is just a suggested setup and certainly open for suggestion.
I always thought the rules on the webpage were out of date. This is just an attempt to come up with a simplier and yet more comprehensive set of guidelines. Perhaps we could update the rules if we get our website back.
LEGENDARY DARK KNIGHTS
GUILD RULES
GENERAL
1. These rules are guidelines to help players understand what is expected of them as members of The Legendary Dark Knights Guild.
2. The official Guild Rules and List of Guild Officers shall be posted on the LDK web site and accessible to all members.
3. Each Guild Officer and Leader shall have a current printed copy of the Guild Rules in case the website is inaccessible.
4. Any change or amendment to these rules must be approved by a majority of the Guild Officers and Leader.
GUILD LEADER
1. The Guild Leader shall serve until the member resigns the position.
2. Selection of a new Guild Leader is determined by the Guild Officers.
3. Approval of a new Guild Leader requires majority vote of Guild Officers.
4. Need and selection of a Guild Co-Leader shall be determined by the majority of Guild Officers.
GUILD OFFICERS
1. The number of Guild Officers shall be set at seven (7).
2. Candidates for Guild Officers must come from the Guild roster.
3. Candidates for Guild Officers must be the member?s main character.
4. Candidates need a majority approval of the Guild Officers before being presented to the Guild Leader for induction.
5. Duties of the individual Guild Officer shall be determined by the Guild Officers.
6. Removal of a Guild Officer is determined by the majority of Guild Officers and Leader.
GUILD MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA
1. At least two Guild Officers shall interview each prospective new member.
2. The interview will be based on a list of questions available to the Guild Officers.
3. Only the prospective member?s main character, at level 50 or higher, can be considered for membership. Exception to the minimum level can be made if a majority of the Guild Officers agree and the Guild Leader approves.
4. The prospective member will be placed on a 30-day probationary period and is expected to follow the Rules of Conduct and participate in Guild raids or groups during this period.
5. The ?inviting? officers will post the probation start date in the public notes section of the Guild window, and send a ?Welcome? announcement to the Guild.
6. At the end of the probationary period, a majority of Guild Officers? votes will determine if the prospective member is awarded Guild Membership.
7. Membership of alternate characters of all Guild members is granted at any level without majority Guild Officer vote, providing the main character is an established member of the Guild.
8. When a Guild member?s main character leaves the Guild, all alternate characters will be terminated from the Guild as well.
RULES OF CONDUCT
1. Every member of the LDK Guild is a representative of the Guild and must demonstrate good sportsmanship, consideration, and respect to every EQ player.
2. Do no beg for money or items from Guild or non-Guild players.
3. Do not ask Guild members for power leveling (PL).
4. Do not use the ?ANONYMOUS? tag. It hides your Guild label and your location from the Guild. Use the ?ROLEPLAY? tag if you wish to remain anonymous to non-Guild players.
5. Do not use profanity in any form in any chat channel.
6. Do not deliberately Kill Steal (KS) other groups or players.
7. Do not deliberately train or interfere with other groups or players.
8. Do not participate in any action that would reflect negatively on the LDK Guild image.
9. Do not confront or exchange verbal blows with a Guild member. Should there be a conflict or complaint against a fellow Guild member, immediately contact a Guild Officer via in-game email, a tell, or RL email. The Guild Officer will evaluate the situation and determine the course of action to be taken against the offending member.
10. Infraction of these rules may result in a ?Formal Warning? by a Guild Officer, or possibly termination of membership from the Guild of the member?s main and all alternate characters.
GUILD RAIDS
1. Raid attendance is encouraged but NOT mandatory. However, those on probation, must participate in at least two raids during the 30-day period.
2. Raid dates, times, and locations for the current month will be posted on the Guild web site calendar.
3. The current week?s raid date, time, and location will be posted in the GMOTD at least 3 days ahead of time.
4. Raids can be for a members? specific quest item. When that item drops, it becomes the property of the member the raid was for. Multiple claims are to be settled by random roll as per Guild Raid rules.
5. Only the Raid Leader or someone designated by the Raid Leader before the raid begins shall announce what item is available, when to roll on it, and who won the item. All rolls before that announcement shall be invalid.
6. Unless otherwise stated, rolling on an item shall be RANDOM 1-101, with high roll winning. In case of a tie, the tying parties, and ONLY the tying parties, shall re-roll until a winner is determined.
7. Winning loot on a previous roll during the Raid shall not disqualify members from rolling on other items.
8. Raid loot dropped that is NOT for a specific member shall follow these rules in order:
A. Guild members can request loot providing the character in the raid can use the item. Multiple requests from present Guild members are settled by random roll as per Guild rules.
B. Guild members in the raid can request loot for an alternate providing the alternate can use the item. Multiple claims are to be settled by random roll as per Guild rules.
C. Guild bankers shall deposit the item in the Guild bank.
D. Non-guild players and Probationary Guild members can request loot providing the character in the raid can use the item. Multiple requests are to be settled by random roll as per Guild rules.
E. If the non-guild player or Probationary Guild member in the raid cannot use the item for their current character, then any non-guild player and Probationary Guild members may request it for an alternate character. Multiple claims are to be settled by random roll as per Guild rules.
F. If the item is a ?No Drop? and none of the players in the Guild raid wish to claim it, then the Raid Leader may check the Guild list of players who are currently on line and determine if a Guild member could not only use the item, but also be able to load the character and come to the raid location for item claim within allotted looting time.
GUILD BANK
1. A minimum of three (3) Guild Bankers shall be appointed in addition to the Guild Leader.
2. Guild Bankers must also be a Guild Officer.
3. Items in the Guild bank shall be available to Guild members at the discretion of any of the Guild?s bankers.
4. Any disagreement among the Guild Bankers about item disbursement shall be settled by a vote?majority rules. However, if there is a tie, Guild Leader shall cast the tie-breaking vote.
5. Members on probation cannot remove items from the Guild bank.
6. Overflow from the Guild bank can be put on Trader characters approved by the Guild Bankers.
GUILD ROSTER
1. The official Guild Roster is the in-game roster on the Guild window.
2. All main characters and alternate characters will be included on the roster, however, EVERY alternate character will show the main?s name in the Public Notes section: Example: Alternate Character Bellezbub is Devilmaykhar?s alt so in the Public Notes will show: Devilmaykhar?s alt.
3. Characters that are inactive for 3 months shall have ?Inactive? placed in the Public Notes. Exceptions will be made for alternates of mains providing the main has been active for the last 3 months.
4. Characters inactive for 6 months shall be removed from the roster. Exceptions will be made for alternates of mains providing the main has been active for the last 3 months.
5. If a character has been inactive for 6 months and that character has consistently followed the high standards of the Guild then, by agreement of a majority of Guild Officers, that character shall be considered a ?Legend? of the Legendary Dark Knights. The term ?LDK Legend? shall be put in the Public Note for that character.
And yes, we WILL have a Guild Website again, we are still working on the details and will try to keep you informed.
Hahaha this ended my happy week ...
GENERAL
fine by me
GUILD LEADER
for me that is a bunch of "gael switch leader" crap told at first by meriri, leader, imo, shall stay where it belongs.
GUILD OFFICERS
7? there are 5 to 7 atm and yet they are rare. and i believe 15 its the max or its unlimited or some crap like that. the rest from this part, w.e
Guild Membership
lvl 50? what are we an Elemental guild? when i joined it was lvl 30 and i believe that was good. #4 the [img]graemlins/cat.gif[/img] gives [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] , oh a main leaves "hey i want to progress a bit faster but i like this guild so much i will leave my alts to stay in contact" and what we say? you left! F! you then we dont want to know about you anymore. bit rude eh? and i am suppose to be the rude one. Dont think the alts shoudl be booted if he was a good member.
Rules
[img]graemlins/cat.gif[/img] gives [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Guild Raids
ROFLMAO
the calendar, uh huh, Guild motd 3 days ahead, that might be good, wont make anyone come more or less tho.
the loot, "hey i won a muramite rune (for example) damn and so many other rolled, omg another dropped and i won again cool i am lucky, oooh i won another ... F that if so many people might need it dont let people roll more than once like that. you are not helping the guild doing so.
Guild bank
what ever
Guild Roster
heh [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]
but extra note, Leave the Leadership ALONE!! it will just F things if messed with.
Flame all you want.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 02, 2006 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Kerrir_Furyaxe ]</font>
I agree the rules that were on website seemed a bit outdated and verbose.
General-
sounds good
Guild Leader-
#4 isnt gonna fly unless you add 'and approved by current guild leader' at the end.
Guild Officers-
#1, as a growing guild, our number of officer/hours should be based on active player/hours. Thus 3 officers on 24/7 might be enough, but realistically it depends on how often officers play, and how many members need supervising. I dont know what is the right number or how to keep track of officer-hours or member-hours, so ... i think we just have to play it by ear, and if necesary, again have officer meeting and discussion to promote more, if needed. If more officers are determined needed and suggestions made, promotions must follow in a timely fashion.
Guild Membership-
1. Currently, it would be extremely difficult to put this into practice; I barely find time to interview as it is and turn down some while im busy, unfortunately (i ask for ingame mail to reschedule). imo, 1 officer performing a complete enough interview should suffice, along with the probation.
3. Before we try to determine what the minimum level is, we need to determine why we need one at all. Level these days really shows very very little about a players ability. A lvl 70 couldve been ebayed yesterday, and a level 10 could have five 70s on a different server. The only reason i see for it, is to give the new recruit a better home for his/her level, by recruiting folks of near the level we are. I dont see any reason to change it from 40 to 50, as we have alts and mains still able to group into the 40s.
Rules of Conduct-
sounds good
Guild Raids-
1. It may not be possible for a new member to attend raids 2 times in a month, as rl may not allow, at least until we get some more raids scheduled (with participation).
2. sounds good but of course we have no calendar atm hehe
4. i believe that if a raid is for a specific persons specific item, the item should go to that person, even if people with similar needs choose to attend.
7. I think, in general, no one person should get more than 1 thing from the same raid; just my opinion. If a lesser nodrop item falls early and someone is excluded from an item that falls later that is best suited to them (see 'Guild Loot'), than i think there needs to be an exception.
SEE GUILD LOOT.
Guild Bank-
I agree, we need some more help sometimes rofl.
Guild Roster-
3. I think we should add an exception for folks who let us know they are going to be absent and about when they are likely to be back, even if its 12 months; we should note the expected return date of these exceptions, and not mark inactive.
Guild Loot...
I firmly believe that what we find in our adventures, should go to the person, that would aid LDK with it the most. Random is somewhat effective, as the person who attends the most, will win the most, and if trends continue, help ldk the most. But I dont believe it is the most efficient way, as a one-time raid attender could go home with the best loot of LDKs long life and than leave guild the next day. There is also the issue of a member unknowingly (or knowingly) rolling for an item that would obviously be best suited for another class. So....i think we need something in between... We have discussed a few options, including the help of a loot counsel (a few people chosen each raid for this purpose), but have come to no definate conclusion. We need your input!
---will edit later---
Thank you LDK,
Ediena
Just wanted to post and FYI that I've read a majority of this..but I'm gonna have to edit in my comments on things later because I have to leave for school atm. [img]redface.gif[/img] uh..have a good day!
Oh my i just read what i posted myself after work ... [img]eek.gif[/img] i overreacted, I'm sorry.
Anyway as the Token Ravager of the Legendary Dark Knights I MUST say ...
Meow Rreow MreeeeoooooooW
and ignore the rudeness of the last post and look for my point of view somewhere in there. And my week dint ended cause of it! Just kinda stabbed. Kitty still happy ... sorry again.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I still think that its kinda ... ugh ... its like when a trusted advisor murders the king lol.Originally posted by Conred:
GUILD LEADER
2. Selection of a new Guild Leader is determined by the Guild Officers.
3. Approval of a new Guild Leader requires majority vote of Guild Officers.
I think it sounds good Conred. I pretty much agree with Ediena's imput. I will follow the rules whatever they may be. I personally like the idea of raids not being mandatory. I am the mother of 4 1/2 and sometimes I cant make the raid, or I log on too late, but I am still a loyal and active member of LDK.
Kerr that was pretty obscene. I don't think I've ever seen so many censored F bombs drop on the forum.
Anyway..I think this is a good first draft, it's very organized and most of the rules are easy to understand..good job! =)
GUILD LEADER
I know some of you think that these are out just to bash Gael or that they're completely uneeded. But let me point out what makes me not worry about them...--->1. The Guild Leader shall serve until the member resigns the position.<--- In other words, unless Gael decides to resign for whatever reason, a new leader won't be chosen. At least, that's how I interpret it. The only reason I could ever see Gael resigning is if he for some reason absolutely HAD to quit EQ. In which case, 2. and 3. make perfect sense. I think Edi is right too on 4., Gael needs to have a say in it too. Personally though I like having an officer counsel..like what we seem to have now..instead of giving one of us more power than the others.
GUILD OFFICERS
I think I'd like to hear your reasoning behind 1. hehe. I don't see why we need a set number, and I also don't know if/what is the max number all ready set for guilds. 2. is a given and can really be thrown out. 4. - 6. make sense to me.
Now the hummzinger for me was .3...As you know, when Muyah was made an officer she was my main. But Kayeotic ended up as my new main, and she currently isn't an officer. I'm sure I've also asked about making her an officer, but this rule made me realize that it'd be uncanny for someone to have 2 chars who are officers. What I have to ask is..how would this get handled for me? I certainly don't want Muyah to be deofficered because of a new rule; that would just be a kick in the jaw for me. It's really the principle of it. I honestly felt alienated from the rigorous trials of trying to overcome the opposition I had and I still feel kinda sore about it. Yes, maybe I'm a baby, but...If anything I'd appreciate keeping Muyah as my officered character.Besides, unlike Kayeotic, she can port..
...but putting my whining aside, the rule does make sense for possible officers-to-be.
GUILD MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA
I agree with Edi about 1., we only really need one officer to interview a person. One of the next things we need to do ASAP is make the list for 2. I think we did briefly mention this but we didn't really cement it because we were trying to discuss multiple things at the same time, iirc. I know Delebe posted some questions she routinely asked member candidates, and they would be a good start.
3. isn't bad, but we could tweak it.. I don't think it's elemental-guild-like to suggest having a level 50 req, and if you read the second part, exceptions CAN be made. So there you have it, we undoubtedly have more flexibility. I don't know if we really need leadership approval for this rule, though.. Oh, and I agree with Edi, one of the reasons for having a req level is to make sure we induct people who won't be sitting alone LFG because they're too low level to group with any members for 20-30 levels and a req level of 40 would suffice. But to throw out a bit of support for the req level 50, I'd like to think that the 10 added levels would help with getting people who have a decent grasp on how to play their class; leveling may be much easier these days but still it's 10 levels, it counts for something, right? But I feel we should consider some other things when inviting people, such as, will they be able to attend raids with us?...an invited member may feel like an outsider when every Sunday guildies go out to have fun on a raid that they're too low level to join. Level 50 could work as a nice req level then, granted if we go somewhere like MPG they wouldn't be unable to come, but a level 50 is more capable of not getting smooshed on raids than a level 40. And one more thing to consider is what time zone a possible member-to-be is in, or what times they actively play in, when they are usually available..and so on. My 2 main reasons for this is I hate to see people get left out because they don't play at the same time most other members do, and secondly we would like to get to see our new members from time to time, raids and groups alike.
4.- 7. are peachy!
8. is kinda controversial, though, and I'm still sitting on the fence about it..trust me though, I'm trying to get off the darn fence..As much as I uphold having all actively used characters in one guild as an important integrity quality, Kerrir did make a point about rude-booting, and that is certainly not our intent at all. I'm trying to think of how, if any exceptions would be made to it..It wouldn't be as overbearing if it was added that LDK Legends, assuming they truly want to keep in contact and group with us on their alts and such, could keep their alts in..or do you guys think that the removal of a main would disqualify being a Legend? Or if that doesn't make sense..what about, we don't remove their alts unless none of them have been active for a certain amount of time..thus, if they still have time enough to hang out, keep in contact, ect..then there isn't a need to boot the alts. But if we find that they don't have time for us or that maybe they really don't give a hoot about grouping with us ever again, despite what they might have said/promised upon leaving, then booting could be in order. Anyway, feel free to kick around my ideas, too.
RULES OF CONDUCT
To quote that famous beer commercial..BRILLIANT!!
9. will also be fun to deal with. You could add that sending screenshots/logs if possible will help officers with approaching the problem.
Question though, does 5. count for tells? I wouldn't be surprised if other members question this too..To put it bluntly, I don't moderate my language so much when talking to friends, granted I know that they aren't offended by it. However, I still talk to strangers or members...or basically everyone else...in a much more curteous manner. I want to know if you guys feel it's neccesary for bad language to be cut out from my vocabulary.
GUILD RAIDS
1. is an interesting idea, though it might be a bit much to require this. Say something just so happens to come up on so many Sundays and they don't get in those 2 raids. What then? I think we could include groups into the scheme of things to give people who are still active on other days the benefit of the doubt. Say 2-3 groups counts as an equal amount of participation as a raid.
2. and 3. are good ideas to inform members beforehand, I do remember multiple people asking about raids. How do we approach them though? We normally decide where we go based on how many people show up and what do people there need ect..We could research what epic fights people need or zones/named we could try to tackle and game-mail everyone our possible targets I guess.
To comment on Edi's 4. comment, I think I know what you mean. If there are multiple claims we should decide who gets it depending on their attendance and how well in the long run it would benefit the guild, right? I guess I'm up for that..I just don't want people to get into a hissy fit a slam us with "you're picking favorites!" and blah blah..that's really my only beef with it. Toe-stepping is a dance I try to avoid if possible.
In 7. "unless stated otherwise by raidleader or someone designated by raid leader" could/should be added, IMO. And we could have Edi's suggested idea..the loot counsel, so it wouldn't just be one person having full authority over where loot goes.
I have a few comments about 8. and the letters..IMO if a person is on the raid, being a fulltime member, probationary member, or a guest, should generally get to /random on an item regardless of whether or not they are on their main or an alt, UNLESS decided otherwise by loot counsel/raid leader. There will sometimes be scenarios where we'd rather see an item go to a certain class/group of classes, go to a main as an upgrade over an alt, go to fulltime guildmembers over probationary members, or go to LDKers over guests..yadda yadda, you get the point.
GUILD BANK
I think most of these rules have the right idea. As for 1., I don't know about required numbers and such still..though another banker or two would certainly help Edi out lol...maybe all current officers should be made bankers? I'm also not sure if normal members can even be made bankers. If they can't then 2. could be thrown out...As for 3. and 5., I want to recomend that bankers don't always act independently on bank loot distributing. Discussing who gets what should be encouraged. And if agreed on by bankers, exceptions for probationary members taking items can be made. And it wouldn't be every little spell or tradeskill item debated..mainly just the certain rare, expensive items.
GUILD ROSTER
3., 4, and 6. need to be worked on a little. Like, I got the impression that if someone's alt isn't on in the past 6 months and their main isn't used in the past 3 months then the alt will get removed. Unless that was really what you intended to say; if it is then I disagree with that policy. I think no one should be labled inactive unless all or a majority, of their characters are inactive for 3 months. No chars should be removed unless all or a majority of their chars haven't been used in 6 months. Exceptions should also be made for both mains and their alts if they inform an officer why they might be absent for an extended amount of time. They shouldn't get booted just because something IRL came up. IMO, anyway.
MY OTHER COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS:
I guess this is more like a summary of my long, long, long winded post..hehe..
*In the officer interview we should include asking some general questions like when is the person most active, what they are looking for in a guild, and they should be directed to the Rules..and whatever else you guys think should be added.
*We should have a loot counsel accounting for both raidloot and bankloot. Our current officers could be made into bankers. We'd discuss where raid and bank loot go if needed.
*On a raid the appointed mainloot, preferably an officer if we implement this suggestion, they would be the one to officially tell the raid when to random. They also explain who can random..should the counsel decide that selectiveness is needed.
*I feel we still need to encourage people to join the forum! The input on issues and raid suggestions is very much desired and welcomed..
*When we get our website running again we should perhaps consider posting and maintaining a roster...maybe..
*When the website is up officer e-mails and IM names should be easy to find for necessary contact.
*On the site we should explain about what LDK is like! We want to make sure that inductees know what we are all about; what our atmosphere is like and what qualities we want in members considering joining. An example being, we want to be certain that they are interested in joining us for the long term..not just spur of the moment..This could be listed under General under rules..or maybe have its own section.
*Another thing that could be listed under general is just the general role of what officers will do..that could possibly be where we put e-mails and such for contact.
*LDK Legends should deffinitely include active members too. The idea could be broader--what other benefits or exceptions would else would being a Legend have, or should it just be an honorable name to bestow upon members?
*Perhaps our rules could be listed in a more relevant viewing order..Example: General, Guild Membership Criteria, Rules of Conduct, Guild Roster, Guild Bank, Guild Raids, Guild Officers, Guild Leader...or some variation there of.
I can't think of anything else atm..maybe later, but I guess I'll wait to hear what you guys have to say! Sorry again for my horribly long posts..I can't help it!
PS...I love you guys. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Hello all,
I need music for this....ahhh, the song that contains my sig quote seems perfect (Mystery, by the Indigo Girls, btw, I should really change that...)
Anyway...please keep in mind that I approach all of these rules as a new member, uncertain of why exactly you have seen a need to implement them, along with a clear focus on which ones would have kept me out of LDK. I think I was around 40 when I joined, unsure of whether the current rule would have changed the path I have taken...the newly proposed rule definitely would. The second time I met Edi, I clearly remember posting 44 mage lfg in guild chat. I also have played at times where the guild has few people on most of the time, although that has changed recently. This time when I have been able to play in the evenings has made my participation in the guild that much *more* rewarding, but I am still glad that I was a member when I was able to play only a night or two a week with many members. My working schedule made it impossible for me to attend raids for many moons; I would have been booted if there was required raid participation for new members. Shall I go on?
I have encouraged the guild to remain as open as possible...see my greeting from a noob post. I also recognize that the familiar, family atmosphere of LDK is something that we all strive to maintain, and having too many people come and go very quickly may deter from that. What I think is the most pressing issue for the guild to decide at this point in time is how to remain open while ensuring that long time members still enjoy their time on enough to log in and stay in the guild. A very small number of new recruits can make existing members uncomfortable enough to cause many problems, as we have seen. While these are being addressed both by new rules for entry along with a probation period, I encourage officers (and members) to be clear about exactly what we expect so that we can warn potential members before they join that they may not be suited to the guild. Despite the issues surrounding Porthios' time in the guild, his complaint about LDK is that we "torture people" when we invite new people in and make their time in the guild feel like a personal attack. This is something we obviously do not want to do, so the question becomes how can we screen new members not only to benefit the guild, but to protect the feelings of people who are a bad fit. I have suggested grouping with potential members instead of an interview, or perhaps in adition to, as a way of seeing if the personality fits in the guild. This has been turned down by more than one person, because it takes too long or because LDK will never be "too closed." I believe, tho, that it is worth the time in order to avoid creating discomfort with existing members. It's a lot easier to politely say that we do not think someone would enjoy their time with us than to boot them, or ostracize them until they decide to leave. The probation period addresses this in many ways, but I am worried that if folks get this far, after a month are we willing to tell people that we don't want them with us? Can this be done without guilt and without it feeling like a personal attack? If not, then I do not believe it fits the spirit of LDK...
Only one more thing, I promise. The issue of alts in the roster after mains have left is something that needs to be standardized. That way, when mains choose to leave, they do so knowing what the consequences are. I believe that all alts that are in the guild currently should remain in the guild as long as they choose to, regardless of what the guild decides on this matter.
And above all, this is supposed to be fun. :-)
Take care all,
Lumlight
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