Music

[Muddy Love]

Refill, as Prof. Ikpah told me, "I like your style."
I have to agree with you there on a few points. I definately think that most punk, if its done correctly, should turn peoples' heads. I think punk in and of itself is ballsy and has a certain amount of lackluster attitude involved in it. To me, and this might only make sense to me alone, but punk is this: you take something and place it into a taxing situation, that something becomes disenfranchised and the product/spirit/music/attitude that comes as a response to this equation is punk. I think that if you are measuring "punkness" by this yardstick it becomes fairly obvious why punk is in bad shape today. It requires an iota of sincerity. You can't react honestly to something that you don't have a grasp on and that is exactly why you have a million dime a dozen bands out there with no emotion and with nothing to say.

[dmvernona]

that's a pretty sound critique of present punk and i also share the some of the word's connotation with your explanation. personally, i think that punk music can be viewed in three ways:

1. as a musical genre, based on sound alone. fast rock music.

2. as a commodity - how it's viewed by most people today. i.e. leather pants, pop-punk, hair spiking gel purchased at a corporate chain store then worn to a corporate rock venue to see a talent agency band booked by a corporate promoter, etc.

my personal favorite way to view the work punk is-
3. as a tagline for a vein of disenfranchised culture that's been around since the kerouc and the 50s. music, art ideas and other things are a part of this type of culture. it is that it's the ONLY caucasion spawned type of music invented in america other than country. this is historically the music of white youth. that's just a statistic - i'm not getting all white powered up here or anything. fuck that. this note does however suggest why, perhaps, it's so easy for me to feel a connection with punk.

like any culture, punk has changed with the times. it's still as relevant today as it was in nyc in the 50s and i like that. the way i see it, punk culture revolves around radical things such as ideas and actions. no wonder the music that reflects it is some of the most intense that exists. like you said ian, i think now is a great time to start a punk band, because it's got a lot of history to pay homage to - and because in today's fucked up world, a lot of radical thought and action is needed - moreso than ever before i think.

in regards to some of your comments refill - obvious such a thing as i'm describing has shock value, but to define or view it solely for that is either substanceless or a commodification of the culture/music to get attention and turn a buck. HOWEVER, if what you were saying is that if you want to make a point and you need to get attention to make it that punk is desined for that, then i agree completely. also, and i think this is where punk went south and got bought out, turned cool, etc., this point is sometimes just that punk is what it is - punk lifestyle got really hip in the 80s. there were bands writing music about that and making a point - saying things were hopeless or that something was wrong with society and that's why the were marginalized and dejected and relflected it in their lifestyle and actions - but i think that it was easy for corporate commodifyers at that point to say - hey look, do this, cause it's cool - not cause it represents something. maybe i'm wrong though. obviously legit. causes can get coopted, so perhaps it wasn't that vein of punk culture's fault. regardless of this tangent, i'll continue my answer to your last question. -

i think punk music/culture is best embodied by the most progressive and talented individuals of any given time. to say someone best represents punk is too ambitious for me, although make a suggestion and i might agree. more realistically, i could point out examples of folks who embody what i'm saying here in their respective times - bop players and beatnicks in the 50s, early punkers like costello moving on to progressive sounds from television to souxsie and the banshies,suicide, then black flag - at this point i'm just naming favorites who were good bands that i think were at the forefront of punk due to my taste - and coming up to today - obviously our new band - also my answer to what my ideal punk band today would sound like.

one last couple of thoughts on punk. i might be wrong, but i think when the hippy movement failed american youths got either more desperate or more assimilated respectively. punk took from that and other prior cultural movement - things like musical influences and activist practices. i guess i just think as things got more fucked up so did punk. i'm glad at the end of the day that there's still a pure punk idea flowing through my head and that it wasn't totally raped along the way...even though it was.

just looked up the word - historically it has some interesting meanings.

1. Dry decayed wood, used as tinder.
2. Any of various substances that smolder when ignited, used to light fireworks.
3. Chinese incense.


adj. Slang

1. Of poor quality; worthless.
2. Weak in spirits or health.


1. Slang.
1. A young person, especially a member of a rebellious counterculture group.
2. An inexperienced young man.
2. Music.
1. Punk rock.
2. A punk rocker.
3.
1. Slang. A young man who is the sexual partner of an older man.
2. Archaic. A prostitute.

adj : of very poor quality [syn: bum, cheap, cheesy, chintzy, crummy, sleazy, tinny] n 1: an aggressive and violent young criminal [syn: hood, hoodlum, goon, thug, tough, toughie, strong-armer] 2: substance that smolders when ignited; used to light fuses (especially fireworks) 3: material for starting a fire [syn: kindling, tinder, touchwood, spunk] 4: a teenager or young adult who is a performer (or enthusiast) of punk rock and a member of the punk youth subculture [syn: punk rocker] 5: rock music with deliberately offensive lyrics expressing anger and social alienation; in part a reaction against progressive rock [syn: punk rock]

[Muddy Love]

Yeah, I think we hit the nail on the head there. We all agreed on most points. Just to play devil's advocate though I have another question to pose. Due to its obvious deveation from some of the other material we have written for this band, would you classify CloverHill as a "punk" song and if so, why?

Also, I wanted to add this: I think that this band is good (everyone who has heard it walked away and enrolled in the chubby institute) because it is pertinent. I think it is pertinent because, unlike most punk being written today, we are being honest. We are desenfranchised, but I think that we are unique in the form of our disillusion. Different things turn us off and different things turn us on. I can only speak for myself here, but I think it is more than obvious that time and time again the battle cries and complaints of punk de la yesterday were shoved aside and ignored. I think what makes this band good is that we're not talking about the same old problems, or at least we're going about addressing them in a different fashion.

[dmvernona]

yeah- that's partly what i was trying to get at in regards to punk having died in some ways. recycling punk music is obsolete to me and that's what happens a lot. you need a fresh perspective to stay progressive

in regards to carmellohill, i think it's most def a punk ballad. it's got all the ingredients: social commentary about a hard life on the streets, serious grit and a unique delivery. personally, i find the use of the specific lounge-y style also to be poingant because i view taking it out of context of a casino and putting it in a basement - taking the song it would be's lyrics from good times in 50s vegas to bad times in 00s ghettos - a definate statement about how things that ARE relevant don't get the time of day, while a feel good jingle does. that's actually kind of my motivation in creating the song

[Muddy Love]

Well I was going to go ahead and weigh in about why I thought that song was absolute punk, but you really just said it all there.

[Muddy Love]

Well, things are looking up at the moment. The new band is coming along very nicely with a freshly named album inspired by two cool cats almost as crazy as the band itself. We've got a lot of material and so far its sounding good. The few demos that we've shared with others were very well recieved.
In other good news the band just moved into their new studio- Happy four leaf clover sunshine unicorn studio. It is looking fierce and the band is still in the process of settling in. I guess at this point I would just like to make a request for everyone to start flooding college radio shows with requests for the band. I'll supply you with the proper info you need to do this if you'd like.

[Muddy Love]

Here is the deal, I'm gonna keep a little account of the band's goings on here on this thread from time to time, given that I have nowhere else to do so. Anyway, the band got into the studio for the first time today (Happy Four Leaf Clover Sunshine Unicorn Studio) and met with the producer/engineer there, Mr. Walter Gefiltefish. We basicly just got our equipment set up and ran through a sound check. We demo'd a few songs for Walter and ATron5000.
I also wanted to set the record straight to those who had there concerns. The studio has been properly purified and ridded of all unwanted energy.
More specific info and pics of the new digs should be available soon at that good ol' website of ours: Ghome.somethingfive.com

[dmvernona]

i'd just like to varify these statements and also point out, although this ought to be on the discussion thread (despite the fact that he IS a mucisian) that my roommate who we all know and love from chi town told me today that he finally got ahold of some gmail e realestate meaning i'll communicate with him more regularly and this leads me to beleiver perhaps the herbologist ought to be a hostboard member if he gets around to emailing me. doubt he'd be a frequent poster, but def. a worthwhile addition. weigh on in -

[Muddy Love]

Of course I am in favor of the herbologist joining us here, I think that goes without saying.

[dmvernona]

alright, i'll get him the info when he sends me something from his new email.

i decided to use some scrap wood this morning to make a guitar rack. only thing i'm short on is 24' of thin wood, like molding or something, to seperate the instruments from each other. anybody has some laying around i'd be grateful not to have to go over to home depot.