Music

[Muddy Love]

I might have you covered on that, I think I saw some pieces around that size today, hopefully he didn't throw them out.
One thing I don't have covered is the shrubbery for this weekend. The bus boy was not in today. I'll look again tomorrow but it smells like shit's creek is right around the next bend.

[dmvernona]

good... and FUCKKk

[dmvernona]

"Queens of the Stone Age will be releasing the CD/DVD Over the Years and Through the Woods on November 22nd via Interscope Records. The live material for the release was recorded last month during live performances at The Brixton Academy in London."

[dmvernona]

ml, our convo in regards to major labels and shit last week sparked my interest in the debate again. here's some better, more eloquent backup to my general arguements that will hit closer to home inluding some great figures from the man himself (first link) steve albini:

--first i'd also like to add that in addition to acknowledging that i'm perhaps being annoying to some people by presenting this (even though i'm presenting my opinion in a discussion among friends - not a case to misc. unopen ears) there are people who look at things in several ways as we spoke about:

those who don't care, those who care to whatever extent but don't badger others and those who badger others about their beliefs.

we agreed that the badgerers can get fucked. discussing or otherwise disseminating info innocuously is great, but don't bother people. what i don't know that i got across is that people who don't care or don't take the time to know the reprecussions of their own simple actions are also being assholes in a sense. i'll use you as an example because you're my lover and it won't create a fuss:

you don't really care about supporting BMI (or nike or whatever - this is a general arguement topicallizedM) but you complain about the fact that tapeworm is locked up somewhere and you can't hear it. that's one of the few things you know of that's locked up. according to the 2nd link's report i've posted 80% or recorded music in the world is in the industry's no-no vault. fuck that and fuck them. people need to take responsibilty. i'll wrap up this point by saying that if you don't like someone or value your relationship with them and they don't give a shit about an important issue like this, go ahead and fucking badger them. my bitch neighbor listening to linkin park shit cds is supporting the fuckers who won't let us listen to some of our fav. musicians' collab. project. what a slag! let her know about it.

maybe not. i'm not actually to rabid about this and obviously this and other types of parallel issues are generally hopeless uphill battles. should argueably live our lives and forget about it - just not get fucked by any labels ourselves at least - and call it a day. i've got a concience for random ass things like this though. funny how it doesn't apply to some other more obvious/direct issues too.

off the tangent and back to the point - - -

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

that much info essentially invalidates your statements about that you want to support a band no matter label they're on. you're primarily supporting industry fagpots. the band might or might not be getting a decent pinch. you don't fucking know at the end of the day. the best way to support major label musicians, or any musicians - but indies do make more on their recs. typically much more -, is to see them perform. the industry raping artists in it's 5 labels is, along with corporate promoters, one of the 2 major reasons it costs so much to see these major label bands. they need high ticket prices to get some dough on the one thing they get a somewhat reasonable cut of.

here's some more reasons not to buy major label material - they're fucking snaking theives like the rest of the corporate world, managing to make theft legal.

http://www.boycott-riaa.com/facts/truth

one more supplement that i scanned about 2 more words of but says a lot of the same things and is a good case example of how it's impossible to support a major label artist:

http://mbhs.bergtraum.k12.ny.us/cybe...t/rapper01.htm

my point in all this is that major label music is a joke. you're paying a company to rip someone you like. you might as well steal the music online like me. i garauntee that if you want pretty much any specific record i can get it for you - at the very least used for 5 bucks somewhere to decrease direct revenue to these corp. cunts so convenience isn't a good arguement not to care. half.com and shit stopped that.

indepenedent music (the good guys of it at least) vs. major labels is like fair trade vs. free trade. it's being reasonable and letting people profit from their work reasonably vs. rape and pilage capitalism.

- - at the end of the day an educated and active mind like me is torn about this so it's easy to see why it got to it's current state. i'll close with one idea though that's somewhat hopeful, somewhat reflective:

people typically don't give a shit about something that isn't a total overt slap in the face to them personally. from records to any other industry, corporate globlization is an issue of whether or not people will take being taken advantage of personally. there are lots of ways corp.s do it. some are more crafty and artful than others. if your house is repossessed by the govt. under emminent domain to build a walmart b/c of kickbacks that's one thing and when music that ought to be affordable to own and see performed isn't available that's another. there's obviously varying degrees in the general issue at hand, but the only way much anything will be solved in the modern greed driven world that is essentially viewed by 99% of those in power as a marketplace first and foremost, not paying up to the same people who'd stab you in the back for a dime is the solution. in most cases it's more fun to pay until you personally get raped and murdered by them - probly not going to happen, right? i don't know, but i'm really inquisitive and broadminded tonight aren't i. this post has turned into a real shitstorm. thank steve albini i guess. motherfuck got me thinking a little

[Muddy Love]

Hey, I appreciate most of what you said. But let's just clear up that you didn't address the issue I was talking about the other night. I think you know that, and I think you more or less just used our conversation as a reference point or as a hypothetical situation of sorts. Which is cool by me, I'm just covering my ass for people reading this that may be thinking that I some how prefer major labels or that I even agree with them.

[dmvernona]

i obviously wasn't trying to paint you as a supporter - just as a hesitant user as i think you are, no?

refresh me on exactly what the question at the base of the other evening was because i can't remember precisely.

anyway, yes - the general shit sparked me to talk about related things - as a jumpoff point.

[Muddy Love]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Good conversation topic though.
Um, the other night's conversation was sparked (but soon found its way elsewhere) by me saying that I refused to hold either major label artists or indie artists above the other based on the type of label they are signed to. I basically said it didn't matter. Call me crazy, but I seem to be hung up on one key factor...the final outcome: music.
Anyway, my point was that its a six of one half a dozen of the other situation. Yes, when you look at the numbers from a hypothetical "Does Tool make more then say Tomahawk on the sale of a single record?" the answer is probably no. But if you look at the overall sales of the album, despite the fact that Tool may make 2 cents from the sale of their album (which is bullshit) the difference soon becomes laughable. This is afforded by the promotion and distribution of the major label cock suckers. As is a larger budget for production.
The other thing is, and I guess this is the best way I can't come up with for the whole don't support major labels, don't support Nike, don't do this or that thing, is this: I'm not going to do anything about it myself. I think statisticly my fucking good for nothing vote in the presidential race counts for more than my boycotting this or that...purely statisticly speaking now.
To me the whole major label crap is odd because people are concerned that by contributing to these companies we're funding terrible things. I think we should stop eating at Sorrentos because when I went to get pick up the other day 3 of the employees working there wear puma sneakers. Now, by choosing to purchase my chicken wings there I am putting money into that buisness, which puts money into its employees' pockets, who in turn go out and eat McDonalds and by Nike.
You can see how quickly this concept becomes absurd. The point I was trying to make the other night was that not liking a band because of the type of label they are signed to is ridiculous.

[dmvernona]

yeah. right on then. i guess somehow we weren't getting to each other b/c i'd have thought you've known me long enough to know you're preaching to the choir on that last point. i think we felt as if we weren't agreeing the other evening b/c while you brought something up, i talked about something else soon after trying to express other points.

at the end of the day i like music - and i don't like business - therefore music is what matters to me when i think about a band.

the only addition i feel that i need to make to that statement is that i think that there are other relevant actions musicians take that are important. this shouldn't reflect on them as musicians though. for example - i will attack billy corgan's business sense and his lack of ethical responsibility (from my point of view), but i still love his tunes and hold them in high regard. i never suggested that because someone's on a major label i won't LIKE them. that's bullshit if you think i did. what i've said and i'll say again is that i'll never SUPPORT them. i'll steal their music online.

ps- tool makes more money than tomahawk because they're marketable to a lot of people. tomahawk has a smaller market for obvious reasons. it's less readily accessible music to most people, or at least less typical. i don't think that's a good example. anyway, if you think that tool couldn't get top grade production and all the rest of their shit they need without a major label i think you're full of it. maybe that debate crosses into the unanswerable realm of need vs greed, but i don't even think so. with a decent accountant you can make a lot happen for less dough than you'd think. the largest achilles heel that i'll acknowledge in the all out indie artist's bankroll possibility is the lack of good/large indie venues that you can sell out as a touring rock band. that shit is monopolized. you don't have to be on a major label to hit them though - just go through a cunt ass corp. promoter.

-
in regards to your sorrentos conundrum/views on general activism and ethical responsibility - i suppose that a counterpoint would be the best way to get further views from you. i don't have the energy right now to type it up, but i'll be back.

[Muddy Love]

No, I wasn't suggesting that you didn't care about the music. I also would like to note, for anyone reading this, that I don't even think we were debating anything the other night, I made a statement about one thing and you about another, I don't think we ever disagreed on anything.
As far as Tomahawk being a poor example, I almost don't have a response to that. Tool took them on tour as an opener for them and they did very well. I don't know what more to say there.
As far as the stealing from the internet or whatever goes, I'm glad you have the ability to do that, I won't be joining you, enough said.
Big budgets are unneccesary? Ok.
As far as the sorrentos example goes nothing can be added to that part of the conversation because my point there is unless you hide away every last cent you make and never ever spend it you are contributing to the problem. End of story. Like I said the other night, I'd rather not hear everyday that the sun is eventually going to burn out, I know it will. Wake me up when it does.

[dmvernona]

totally overlooked that about tomahawk; you totally schooled me there in a sense.

your internet statement and further more your misinterpretation of what i was trying to say about big budgets lead me to believe you're not exactly open minded about this discussion. to your credit i think that we both probly have some preconcieved notions that won't really be changed by a message board convo about these musically related things.

anyway, sorry to be dragging you through this again. you did make it obvious that you'd rather not delve into some of the shit i'm bringing up other night. i kind of forgot in my rubbernecker looking at an explosion style interest in this shit.

every time i have a convo similar to this and it ends without any major semblance of a hopeful or cooperative note it gives me the worst feeling about people that i can get - myself included. you?

to take the rubbernecker idea further - it's kind of liek i know we just drove by a car that exploded. the passengers are 98% dead. we probly can't do anything. i feel like i don't know whether we would stop or not. i want us to stop. it's totally fucked though. that's how this conversation/these ideas is for me i guess

-
also - didn't get into david lynch. 2000 people turned away at the door