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viper - I want Nagy on this team because he's got guts, integrity and a winning attitude. Why should Nagy take heat for not being a "team" guy? How about Dolan taking some heat for not "sacrificing" Nagy's salary so a more competitive guy can be on the roster? Isn't that what a "team" player would do? Nagy didn't draw up his contract the Indians brass did. Nagy didn't force them into the terms he agreed to he just signed his name. Now the contract paralysis this team has is Nagy's fault? What about Wohlers, Finley, Cordero, Wright and all the other contract albatross's around this team's neck? Finally, I'll judge Charlie Nagy on his whole career not the last 2 years.
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October- I got no problem with Nagy getting his money, you're right it isn't his fault. I love Nagy for his guts, his attitude, his work ethic but the fact of the matter is he is NOT productive anymore, there is nobody that can argue that. Wright still has hope, Cordero can somewhat hit, Finley can get guys out, Nagy isn't going to get any better than bad. You're right management should buy out his contract and ask him to be on staff or coach. My point is the guy can't pitch anymore but becuase we owe him money and he has a good history we are going to roll his 8+ ERA on out there and look stupid doing it when maybe a young pitcher can develop in a non-pressure role. That is all I'm saying, I'm sick of hearing how great Chuck is, no doubt, but it comes down to talent and unfortunately he just isn't healthy and never will be again
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viper
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A classy guy would admit he can't perform and won't be able to earn his contract. He would retire. See Mark McGwire.
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I was with you until the part about being sick of hearing how great Chuck is. Every Cleveland Indian fan will forever be in Nagy's debt for his contributions to this team. If it means losing some games this year so be it. Nagy won't cost them the playoffs and he won't get them to the playoffs. He's going out the same way he came in. Only now he's the one who's lost a step not the rest of the team. Show equal contempt for management and you'll gain some credibility with me.
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I certainly owe gratitude to Chuck-o but c'mon we have given him every opportunity to prove he can still pitch. He had all of last year and all of spring training and has not showed a sign of getting people out. Is he going to cost us the playoffs this year, NO I don't think so but where a young guy could be developing in the majors he is potentially holding up that spot because we owe it to him??? He is getting paid six million dollars for nothing, granted he was underpaid for several years, so I have no problem with the money he's due. I have a problem with us holding a roster spot for him. This is a business cut the roster spot, pay him his money, and offer him a front office position or a coaching position. They could still do this classy and benefit the club.
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viper
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mr. October:
Nagy won't cost them the playoffs and he won't get them to the playoffs.
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Actually he already cost us the play-offs once. Nagy's 3 September starts (and losses) in 2000 contributed to the Tribe missing the post-season by one game. If Nagy had 'fessed up at the time to how much pain his arm was causing him, it is likely the Tribe would have won at least of those gameswith someone else on the mound and made the post-season.
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Out of 162 games Nagy's 3 September starts cost us the playoffs? All-righty then. Clearly there are some Indians fan who believe Charlie Nagy is the anti-Christ.
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Charlie Nagy needs to be judged on what he does now not what he did 10 years ago. Right now he is garbage and should be sent packing! Go home Charlie you **** ! Show some class by retiring!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mr. October:
Out of 162 games Nagy's 3 September starts cost us the playoffs? All-righty then. Clearly there are some Indians fan who believe Charlie Nagy is the anti-Christ.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
*TR is right on that one. We missed by one game and Charlie blew three games when he should have told management he was not able to go. I still like him, though. I would like him a lot better in retirement.
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*TR,
it is true that Nagy lost those three games in 2000 and we missed the playoffs by one game. However, if you remember, that is the year that we ended up using a ML record number of pitchers that season. IN other words, saying that Nagy was the reason is not completely accurate. Anyone of the stiffs that would have been used in his place instead had just as good a chance at losing any of those three games. Remember we got so desperate we had to trade Sexson for Bere and Woodard?
