Altec 288-8G - Electro Voice HR60 HELP

[AltecLansingFan]

A few weeks ago I purchased a pair of Electro Voice HR60 horns.
I want to use them for a new project, with my Altec 288-8G drivers, in combination with the 416-8B woofers. I want to use them in a bass-reflex cab with a passive crossover.
Is there anyone on this forum who had some experience with this combination or can give me some good advice about the right crossover for this combination? Any help is welcome. Thanks.

[Old Guy]

Well opinion's are like...let's just say there are lots of them. Don't wanna PO Robocensor this early in the morning...but here's mine.

First the EV data sheet...

http://archives.telex.com/archives/E...HR60%20EDS.pdf


Altec used 500, 800, and 1200 xovers with 416's.

However EV recommends 800 minimum with that horn... So 800 or 1200 would seem to be candidates...and I don't see any reason to go 1200 with the big driver.

Kinda narrows the possibilities doesn't it?

800 sounds like a good starting place. With an active you can vary this a little.

Prolly will want some sort of EQ to bring up a little extreme top, and you should be pretty well set.

I am sure you are aware, but just in case- a bit of a narrower pattern on those...most home horns are 90 degree- those are 60...so you may have to "toe them in" a little towards your listening position.

Need more just ask..I can babble on forever...

[Old Guy]

Pardon the senior moment...the data sheet says usable to 500, so you could go that low...does mention that pattern control is only maintained to 630...

So with 800 as a starting point, you can play up or down a little.

My experience has been that going lower makes the sound a little more "forward" or aggressive...in other words classic "West Coast"

[GM]

Sorry, no experience with this combo, but assuming this is a HIFI app, then to add to OG's considerations is that due to the 288 having a larger throat than the horn's, a tweeter horn XO'd fairly low will be required for high SQ since this mis-match will create a second resonant cavity to wreak havoc on its HF response.

Unfortunately, I don't have the necessary data to figure a 1st approximation XO point, though if you can measure the 288'a internal mini-horn's length (L), then its 1st standing wave notch (reflection back to its throat) will theoretically be around ~13560/2/L if in inches or 34442.4/2/L if in cm.

WRT the XO, even with a tweeter horn it may still need some CD horn EQ if not driven by a matching impedance amp and due to its relatively narrow directivity it's a poor power response (off axis match) match to a single 15" except down low, so a 500 Hz XO would be the technically preferred choice.

GM

[AltecLansingFan]

Originally posted by O G:
Pardon the senior moment...the data sheet says usable to 500, so you could go that low...does mention that pattern control is only maintained to 630...

So with 800 as a starting point, you can play up or down a little.

My experience has been that going lower makes the sound a little more "forward" or aggressive...in other words classic "West Coast"

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you for your reaction. At this moment I have a model 19 set up with 811 horn (packed in gypsum) and 808-8B driver, we add a extra HF tweeter. The crossover I use in that setup is the model 19 crossover from Jeff Markwart, we updated that crossover with some 10 AWG air coils (North Creek). We used the Solen caps, with Vishay MKP1837 bypass on every cap. In the first place a thought I can try the 288-8G/EV HR60 on that crossover, but in that case the driver starts at 1200 Hz. Maybe a start at 600 or 700 Hz is better but I don't like a too much forward sound. I like a "wall of sound". The problem is to find a usable schematic. After lots of experiences with crossovers I finally found this crossover setup, and this is the best I have ever had. So we must see how to solve this problem.

[AltecLansingFan]

Originally posted by GM:
Sorry, no experience with this combo, but assuming this is a HIFI app, then to add to OG's considerations is that due to the 288 having a larger throat than the horn's, a tweeter horn XO'd fairly low will be required for high SQ since this mis-match will create a second resonant cavity to wreak havoc on its HF response.

Unfortunately, I don't have the necessary data to figure a 1st approximation XO point, though if you can measure the 288'a internal mini-horn's length (L), then its 1st standing wave notch (reflection back to its throat) will theoretically be around ~13560/2/L if in inches or 34442.4/2/L if in cm.

WRT the XO, even with a tweeter horn it may still need some CD horn EQ if not driven by a matching impedance amp and due to its relatively narrow directivity it's a poor power response (off axis match) match to a single 15" except down low, so a 500 Hz XO would be the technically preferred choice.

GM

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for your reply, I'm not very technical, when I have the schematics, I can build a crossover, and I can fine tune the crossover to my ears, by trying out with different caps and coils.
Sometimes it can take some time, for instance my last crossover took about 14 months before I had the right setup. So I think I must be patient to find a good working schematic as basic, and after that I can start to fine tune it to my own ears.

[Old Guy]

Cannot help much with passive crossovers, I try to avoid them.

let us know how everything turns out.

[AltecLansingFan]

Originally posted by O G:
Cannot help much with passive crossovers, I try to avoid them.

let us know how everything turns out.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never used active crossovers, because in the beginning so around 1969, I was 14 years old I started with Altec 409B speakers, Sansui AU222 amplifier, Garrard turntable and that was it. Many speakers followed, but always 1 power amplifier and speakers with passive crossovers. So active crossovers are for me "unknown" But maybe it is time to chance, and I it is time to try it with an active crossover. Tell me about your stereo set, how many amplifiers do you use to drive your setup. When I change from passive to active, which
brand/type active crossover do you prefer?

[Old Guy]

In all honesty- I'm older than dirt, and just moved a bit ago- so I just have a real basic set up that is in use.

I come from a pro audio background, a mix of live and studio, mostly live.

For me, getting rid of all the phase issues just makes the sound a lot better- that said, my Altecs are running nothing more than the factory passives, albeit rebuilt with newer caps.

but with something like a DCX 2496, you can do so much filtering and time adjustments.

I would suggest going to Behringer's website and download the manual. It will let you know what a modern crossover can do...it's entertaining and it's free- so even if you never consider buying one, it is a pleasant waste of a few hours.

My first language is English, so the page I'm leading you to is English- but Behringer is kind enough to publish the manual in a number of languages...just click "manual" it will bring up all the options...have fun!

http://www.behringer.com/dcx2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

[GM]

Originally posted by AltecLansingFan:
Thanks for your reply, I'm not very technical, when I have the schematics, I can build a crossover, and I can fine tune the crossover to my ears, by trying out with different caps and coils.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're welcome!

OK, then do a site search for Altec's N501-8A 500 Hz 2nd order XO, 30904/30923 woofer impedance (zobel)/CD horn compensation schematics, wire the latter between the XO and drivers and tweak to your heart's content .

GM

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ May 22, 2008 09:50 AM: Message edited by: GM ]</font>