guitar speakers

[417 - Alnico]

No problem..I have not seen an ER-12 that did not have the EV cast Frame & surround. Cool info, thanks

http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...pro/page09.jpg

[417 - Alnico]

The 84 catalog is hard to read..I will be looking for these early units.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...pro/page09.jpg
I saw a Leslie on Eplay with 425's in it.
I have seen early EVM's with white frames and a black painted metal Dust Cap..It was Ceramic..it was their new SRO for Kustom. They, EV also had the paper Domes..The EV's had heavier, thicker..stiffer cones, so that made them way less Dynamic than the 417's..I always wondered why Mesa went from Altec to EV in 1982. Still better than the shallow coned D120-F.
I have a few sites that may interest the next step in high efficiency Drivers.

[417 - Alnico]

Probably the last speaker to resemble the 417..Deep cone....3" Aluminum VC..over 100 SPL.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Dis...els/G125-8.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/G-Series.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/G...And_G135-8.pdf

http://archives.telex.com/archives/E...line%20EDS.pdf

[just me now]

if anyone is looking,

I have a pair of JBL G135-8As I would be willing to part with...

I may be pickig up a pair of 418-8Hs next week as well...

if interested in either pair email me at [email protected]

[GM]

After much research..that I have posted in the past..The ER-12 was / is a EVM-12L.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greets!

I believe you mean EVM-12. If you compare specs you'll see that the EVM-12, -12L, - 12S have the same specs as the ER series. Apparently EV saw no reason to 'mess with success'.

I do not know why there are 2 er12's an S & L model.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 'L' is optimized for small ducted port midbass cabs and the 'S' for midbass horn loading.

GM

[Old Guy]

OK. Let me first take a deep breath.

I lived through this time period. I was buying lots of both EV and Altec at the time.

I'm quite offended by the statement that the EV was the "premium" speaker choice of amp makers.

These things were a lot CHEAPER than Altecs. Randy from Mesa Boogie told me personally that's why he switched. I sold a heckuva lot of amps for him way back when.

That and Altec was having serious supply and quality control problems. Any of you heard the stories about how many 604's Urei was rejecting?

The early Alnico EV's were called SRO's. At some point, I have heard several stories why, and the one person who could tell us I wouldn't trust, it was decided Kustom would own the SRO brand name. ALL kustom SRO's are ceramic, made by EV. They are not Early EVM's. The EVM was made concurrently and was exactly the same speaker. Time frame mid to late '70's I have old invoices to prove I bought in excess of 400 of each and had multiple discussions with both Kustom and EV. I ran the Pro sound division of one of Ohio's biggest music retailers.

The "Altec" speakers are EV's. They weren't designed at Altec. They were an attempt by Altec to compete at a price point they couldn't match. At EV quantity pricing Altec could still make a small profit selling them out.

Also as I said, they were having a lot of problems getting stuff built.

Regarding the EVM 12L and 12S- the 12L was designed as a lead guitar speaker. Hence the L.

The 12S has a short frame and shallower cone, hence the S. This was done to get more midrange output. I can link to the spec sheets if anyone likes.

The Altecs were not incorporated into the EVM line, since they were EV's to begin with. EV sold these speakers several (maybe 8 or 9)years prior to Altec doing so. As evidence they are the same speaker the replacement kits for both carried the same part number in the "80's. Thats not coincidence. Altec either copied em or bought 'em- take your pick.

I'm not saying anyone is misleading anyone. But would Altec tell it's sales staff they were selling EV speakers? At the very least some sort of spin would have been put on it.

The EV is not and never was a premium speaker. It is an inexpensive speaker. In 50 and 100+ OEM quantities it became dirt cheap. That's why all the amp manufacturers switched to it.

Let's get a matched set of 4 Altec 417's in Primo shape and 4 EVM 12's in identical condition. Post 'em to Ebay. The Altecs will bring up to 50% more. Why? Because more guitar players want them.

I have done touring sound for 30+ years. The 417 is much preferred by most guitarists. I'm not talking a sample of a couple dozen guitar players. I'm talking too many to count, at least hundreds if not thousands. How many guitarists have I talked to in 30 years? Your guess is as good as mine.

I apologise to all here if I'm offensive, I'm trying hard not to be. But I'm a bit huffed.

If anyone who thinks the EV is better has any Altec 417's please let me know. I can sell all that I get my hands on. I can sell lots of EV's too if I drop the price. The economics are the same today as they were back then.

[Old Guy]

Another person who says the ER's are EV's, and that the replacement parts are the same.


http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Voice-EV...QQcmdZViewItem

Having sold hundreds and hundreds of EV's, that IS an EV frame and magnet. As far as I'm concerned case closed.

Dug up some old OEM invoices. Altec 417's in 100 quantity were $103. In the same quantity EVM 12's were $76. Now why on earth would anyone want to buy EV speakers? At a net savings of $2700?

Bear in mind this was a time of runaway inflation, and the depressed economy that would force Altec into bankruptcy within couple years.

Anybody remember Reaganomics? That's the painful solution that turned the country around.

[417 - Alnico]

Great Thread..the most informative, with the added compare and contrast of Speaker manufactures HE MI drivers.
I understand Old Guy, about the EV's not being a Premium speaker in reality..
Side by side the EV sounds more boxy, dull, muffel'ed (sp?) and Nasal. IMHO

http://archives.telex.com/archives/E...line%20EDS.pdf

[cclark65]

since we are talking about 417's here. I have a set that came with a really hard aluminum dome on it. I mean, hard enough that I can knock it with a hammer and it won't even scratch it!

Can anybody tell me about that particular feature?

[bfish]

In the reconers' world, there are several instances of various brands' speakers with both "S" and "L" suffixes. In these cases the suffix refers to the apparent length (height) of the VC winding, the "S" stands for "short" (underhung), and the "L" stands for "long" (overhung). I have no idea if that applies to the EVM or ER models discussed here, but it does seem that it may, due to the suggested intended applications for the various models, as well as the respective efficiency ratings of the ER-12S (101dB) and the ER-12L (100dB). The normally-lower Fs of overhung designs is borne out in the T/S parameters for the ER-12L and ER-12S as well (55Hz vs 70). To cloud the issue further, I noticed in the Altec T/S data, a no-suffix ER-12 is listed as well.....