485 W of class A valve power - yeee-haah!

[dread64]

Can you imagine the heat? Good googly moogly!
You could roast a pig over those things.

Dave

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by dread64:
Can you imagine the heat? Good googly moogly!
You could roast a pig over those things.

Dave

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats why people refer to these types of amplifiers as Space Heaters!

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Steve Schell:
Scott, it is true what you say. There is a lot of silly pricing in high end (I call it hind end) audio. More than once I have been subjected to atrocious sound from a $100k or $200k system at an audio "salon." I have been counseled that the best way to kill sales of a high performance audio product is to price it too cheaply. It's a crazy world.

Horn speaker enthusiasts who do their homework are in an enviable position in that it is possible to build a phenomenal horn system for not too much money that will outperform almost anything available commercially regardless of cost. Knowledge is more useful than a pile of cash in attaining a superior speaker system. This is the flip side of the hind end trap, and this time we come out on top.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello!

Now we understand each other.

I dont run my mouth to berate other peoples talents at creating amazing audio equipment, but, too many times I have heard with my own ears a well engineered system, using off the shelf components, outdo outrageously overpriced high end salon systems.

If you want speakers made from exotic woods, because you love how it looks and can afford them, I have no problem with that. But when the salespeople tell me that " Your obviously not used to hearing everything " because I didnt care for how an amp sounded, thats when I say BS!

I remember in the 90,s one cable manufacturer had a cable that everyone said sounded as good as the TOTL $2500 cables, but was only around $95.00. And they didnt sell well, because they werent priced high enough! Peoples perception, and audio companies have marketing depts fully aware and skilled at how to market a product to the segment of people they are trying to play too!

Like I said, I was at the AES show, Alan Sides has these monitors, NEW JBL components, old Crown amps, sounded incredible! AND, Im NOT a big fan of todays JBL! And walk into a high end salon and mention the name JBL, the looks you get are priceless. Yet, Alan Sides is getting something out of JBL components that got my attention!

[Steve Schell]

I have been hearing stories about Allen Sides and his affection for / piles of / implementation of classic RCA gear ever since I started collecting it myself. I have read in another post that his current offering is based on the classic RCA LC-9A speaker. This was a great though little known system that is undeservedly obscure. Since Mr. Sides is a legendary recording engineer, I'm not surprised that he would select equipment based on sonic merit rather than looks or audiophile credentials.

The LC-9A was pictured and discussed over on the Lansing Heritage forum in this thread:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ighlight=LC-9A

To wrap up my thoughts about Atma-sphere, my guess is that the outlandish looking and priced MA-3 amps were the results of the company designer responding to requests for such a product and earnestly attempting to meet the demand. Having met the low key and kindly Ralph Karsten, it doesn't make sense to me that he would mark up the price absurdly. I have had a taste of this myself; when you design and build a product to be as good as you can possibly make it and apply a markup that allows for some profit, the retail price can go into orbit around Pluto. The folks who can afford to purchase such products provide a service to the rest of us, as the advancements gained eventually trickle down as we have discussed.

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Steve Schell:
I have been hearing stories about Allen Sides and his affection for / piles of / implementation of classic RCA gear ever since I started collecting it myself. I have read in another post that his current offering is based on the classic RCA LC-9A speaker. This was a great though little known system that is undeservedly obscure. Since Mr. Sides is a legendary recording engineer, I'm not surprised that he would select equipment based on sonic merit rather than looks or audiophile credentials.

The LC-9A was pictured and discussed over on the Lansing Heritage forum in this thread:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ighlight=LC-9A

To wrap up my thoughts about Atma-sphere, my guess is that the outlandish looking and priced MA-3 amps were the results of the company designer responding to requests for such a product and earnestly attempting to meet the demand. Having met the low key and kindly Ralph Karsten, it doesn't make sense to me that he would mark up the price absurdly. I have had a taste of this myself; when you design and build a product to be as good as you can possibly make it and apply a markup that allows for some profit, the retail price can go into orbit around Pluto. The folks who can afford to purchase such products provide a service to the rest of us, as the advancements gained eventually trickle down as we have discussed.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Totally agree.

BTW, the monitors Allan Sides made, use a JBL 2226 woofer horn loaded, JBL mids horn loaded, and highs, and I couldnt believe what this guy made that stuff sound like. They werent the RCA clones. Smaller studio monitors than those RCA Ubangi clones.

However, it just reaffirmed my belief that there is actually GOOD gear available, at reasonable prices, you have to know what to use, and what to do with it!

All I know, is I heard a system that grabbed me by the ears. Using amps my friend doesnt like, and speakers I thought I didnt like! Even my friend said the crowns sounded really good in Allan Sides setup. I could buy this setup for less than what the TOTL Atma-Spheres cost, and most of all, in the right room, setup properly, I could be VERY happy with it.

[scott fitlin]

Oh, and his subs were JBL 2242,s powered by a strong Crest amplifier. The subs sound terrific.

[bfish]

Originally posted by Steve Schell:
...when you design and build a product to be as good as you can possibly make it and apply a markup that allows for some profit, the retail price can go into orbit around Pluto...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I'm reading that correctly, therin lies the rub. As a consumer, I believe R&D costs should be recouped from the mfr's profit line, and not incorporated in the product price. R&D involves trial and error, and I won't pay for someone's else's error (paying for my own is bad enough).

To me, a fair price is a sum of the actual production cost plus 30% markup for profit. Period. If interim salesmen want to eat, they should get real jobs that actually benefit someone besides just themselves. A really good product needs no creative marketing to convince the consumer they need it. It will sell itself after you give a few copies away to the right people.

Consider the classic historical inventor. R&D came out of their pockets, and they never saw a dime of income until their invention was being sold in quantity.

Today, it seems people expect to be paid for every minute they spent dreaming up an item and learning how to implement its production. Many are successful at doing just that, but it isn't because I bought their product.