New Altec speaker boxes Part 2

[GM]

Originally posted by Jammin Jungle Jim:
GM
I'm still looking for input from you and others about making new 620's and Model 19 Cabs... shall they be improved or as Altec designed them? Also, shall they be re-tuned for for the new GPA 604's?
Please post in the "New Altec speaker boxes Part 2" thread.
Thanks

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greets!

I've made it plain in many a thread that I have a low opinion of most of Altec's designs, including these two and have posted alternate designs, but plenty of folks think they're basically fine, so without a means of having a 'shootout' where everyone can critique each variant you're limited to making known improvements such as additional bracing, etc..

Regardless, I don't see the point in this venture. I mean why are you wanting to go into direct competition with GPA/Iconic? They already have a well received 604 MLTL M18 replacement and IIRC offer a M19 clone as well as having the resources to custom design/manufacture any cab design AFAIK. Then there's the issue of demand. Not many folks are interested in HE horn speakers or will tolerate huge cabs, and most of those are DIYers.

That said, flat packed Onkens, RCA style half horns, Karlsons and similar medium hard to fab cabs may be viable if all the routing/joinery required to make them easy to assemble doesn't jack up the cost too much. Still, I imagine demand will be low.

GM

[bigjunglejim]

Thanks for the link showing the model 17. I see the Model 17's port is horizontal where the Model 18's port runs vertically.

GM... You wrote, "They already have a well received 604 MLTL M18 replacement and IIRC offer a M19 clone as well as having the resources to custom design/manufacture any cab design AFAIK".Please explain "MLTL", "IIRC" and "AFAIK".

[bigjunglejim]

GM, you wrote, "why are you wanting to go into direct competition with GPA/Iconic?".
Iconic has three models of "Stonehenge" http://www.iconicspkrs.com/stonehenge.html

I called Bill at GPA a couple of weeks ago. Bill told me he doesn't offer any boxes or systems at this time but, he's working on bringing out a "very high end" speaker system. I asked him to give me a shot at providing the boxes.

GM and TODD... If you have a design for a "super high end" speaker system using Bill's new speakers, I'd be interested in talking with you. I would also like to look into making a system like the old Big Red's that used a 604 plus another woofer in a set up similar to the UREI 813. Perhaps I can offer a larger system configured like the UREI 815 which had a 604 and two additional woofers. I'd like to get the ball rolling and have some boxes built. I still think I should start with the 620 followed by the Model 19 (with small improvements).

[martyh45]

Jim,

The DIY community is a wonderful resource. Many people share their hard won knowledge or professional expertise with no thought of compensation. 3rd party commercialization of the work product of the community is unethical at best.

If you have a production advantage or some marketing expertise to offer you might consider contacting a competent designer directly. Some might be willing to develop a design for you on a fee for service basis or perhaps you could work out a royalty arrangement.

I may be alone in this but I see these threads as potentially damaging to the community as a whole. The more likely it appears that designs or ideas will be stolen and commercialized, the less likely they will be posted. I for one would rather have them available free for private use.

Marty

[GM]

Originally posted by selmerdave:
Jim the Model 17 is a 604-8g in a 620A cabinet.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ome/page09.jpg

Dave

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greets!

Hmm, it doesn't look like a 620 cab to me: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures07.jpg

GM

[bigjunglejim]

Marty
I understand your point of view.
I have yet to hear back from Bill at GPA about building boxes for his new system he plans to sell.
My original thought was to make 620 and Model 19 clones (cabinets). People who have responded thought I should make some improvements. If you've read the entire thread above, you will know I can have furniture grade cabinets made one at a time or in mass. I don't think there will be a great market but, perhaps I'll be able to sell a dozen or so cabinets. Hardly worth the effort. I'm doing this more because I want some for myself and for a few others who've shown an interest. How many big systems like the UREI 815 do you think I'd sell? I don't think many. I have no problem working with a speaker designer on a "royalty" basis. Perhaps a set amount per cabinet built. You have to realize, although the cabinet shop I'd use is big, I'm small and I'm doing this out of my own (shallow) pocket. I believe the market for these boxes is very small. In the old days, new Altec speakers were always out of my price range. Today things aren't much better for many of us. For many of us, we buy used Altec because we love the sound and can afford the price of used equipment. But today, even the price of used equipment is becoming very high and out of reach for many of us. There will always be people who can afford whatever they want. I'd like to supply high quality boxes at reasonable prices that almost anyone can afford. Look at the Altec Heritage A-7, $5800 each? OUCH!!! How many do you think they sell?

I just called Bill at GPA, he didn't get my note about building boxes for him. I'm going to send him another copy.

[bigjunglejim]

Marty
I understand your point of view.
I have yet to hear back from Bill at GPA about building boxes for his new system he plans to sell.
My original thought was to make 620 and Model 19 clones (cabinets). People who have responded thought I should make some improvements. If you've read the entire thread above, you will know I can have furniture grade cabinets made one at a time or in mass. I don't think there will be a great market but, perhaps I'll be able to sell a dozen or so cabinets. Hardly worth the effort. I'm doing this more because I want some for myself and for a few others who've shown an interest. How many big systems like the UREI 815 do you think I'd sell? I don't think many. I have no problem working with a speaker designer on a "royalty" basis. Perhaps a set amount per cabinet built. You have to realize, although the cabinet shop I'd use is big, I'm small and I'm doing this out of my own (shallow) pocket. I believe the market for these boxes is very small. In the old days, new Altec speakers were always out of my price range. Today things aren't much better for many of us. For many of us, we buy used Altec because we love the sound and can afford the price of used equipment. But today, even the price of used equipment is becoming very high and out of reach for many of us. There will always be people who can afford whatever they want. I'd like to supply high quality boxes at reasonable prices that almost anyone can afford. Look at the Altec Heritage A-7, $5800 each? OUCH!

I just called Bill at GPA, he didn't get my note about building boxes for him. I'm going to send him another copy.

[bigjunglejim]

Marty
I understand your point of view. I don't agree that anyone using information offered here by DIY'ers would hurt anything. Look at the Linux (Unix) operating systems and the freeware offered. There are companies selling packaged operating systems for a little profit and it serves the entire community well. More people use Lynix because it became more convienent thus making the Linux comminity stronger and giving it more clout with hardware manufacturers.

I'd love to provide Bill at GPA boxes for the new system he plans to sell.

My original thought was to make 620 and Model 19 clones (cabinets). People who have responded thought I should make some improvements. If you've read the entire thread above, you will know I can have furniture grade cabinets made one at a time or in mass. I don't think there will be a great market but, perhaps I'll be able to sell a dozen or so cabinets. Hardly worth the effort. I'm doing this more because I want some for myself and for a few others who've shown an interest. How many big systems like the UREI 815 do you think I'd sell? I don't think many. I have no problem working with a speaker designer on a "royalty" basis. Perhaps a set amount per cabinet built. You have to realize, although the cabinet shop I'd use is big, I'm small and I'm doing this out of my own (shallow) pocket. I believe the market for these boxes is very small. In the old days, new Altec speakers were always out of my price range. Today things aren't much better for many of us. For many of us, we buy used Altec because we love the sound and can afford the price of used equipment. But today, even the price of used equipment is becoming very high and out of reach for many of us. There will always be people who can afford whatever they want. I'd like to supply high quality boxes at reasonable prices that almost anyone can afford. Look at the Altec Heritage A-7, $5800 each? OUCH!

[Ronald Lee]

Jammin Jungle Jim: I read this thread with some interest.

I'm not a woodworker or cabinet maker etc. But in the old days a huge major expense was not the assembling of the cabinets, but in the finishing. In the old days, 2/3s the cost of a speaker was in the cabinet because of the hand labor involved in the finishing, per a JBL brochure, except of JBL & Altec speakers with their expensive machined magnet structures. I think the expensive machining involved in the classic drivers is one of the reasons why most of todays drivers are made of ferrite. You can mold ferrite cheaper and faster than machining. In old days, in the cost of a $100 speaker; $60-$70 was in the cabinet, and $30-$40 worth of raw speakers and crossovers. Notice the mirror smoothness of the factory Altec, JBL, PWK speakers cabinets, that requires lot of hand labor. Assembling the cabinets together into a box is not a problem through the use of modern milling machines.

Shipping is really, really expensive. A correctly made cabinet is going to weigh a ton, figurtively speaking of course. If I were the owner of GPA, I would certainly look to local suppliers first to keep the freght expense down. Making a cabinet is not a big deal, there many people that have the expertise.

Maybe you can make a few cabinets and sell it on eBay locally in So Calif because there is a huge number of people in a small area to keep the frieght expense down.

[selmerdave]

Originally posted by GM:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by selmerdave:
Jim the Model 17 is a 604-8g in a 620A cabinet.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ome/page09.jpg

Dave

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greets!

Hmm, it doesn't look like a 620 cab to me: http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1970's-lf-plans/enclosures07.jpg

GM</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi GM,

Perhaps my eye is not as trained as it should be but they look awfully similar to me;





and there seem to be numerous references on the net to the Model 17 as being a 604-8g in a 620A.

Dave