The electric car

[LICORNE]

Here is the new site for the TM4 . The patents belong to Hydro Quebec. Please see history and look at all the years from 1991 of development of the rotor wheel.




Specifications summary of a type of motor-wheel

Maximum power 80 kW 107 hp
Power rated at 950 rpm 18.5 kW 25 hp
Maximum torque 670 Nm 494 lb.-ft.
Couple rated at 950 rpm 180 N m 133 lb.-ft.
Maximum speed 1385 rpm
Rated speed continuously 1235 rpm
Effectiveness under load continues to 950 rpm 96.3%
Voltage maximum 500 V CC

By eliminating the central engine, transmission, differential, universal joints and drive shaft, engine-compact wheel TM4 Transport allow greater flexibility in the architecture of the vehicle


http://www.tm4.com/servlet/dispatche...ang=2&action=2


CANADIAN PATENT CA 2161237

http://patents.ic.gc.ca/cipo/cpd/en/...ownload_images






EACH WHEEL DELIVERS 95 HP.THAT'S A TOTAL OF 380 HP.


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<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ August 11, 2008 04:54 PM: Message edited by: CONVERGENCE ]</font>

[Old Guy]

We'll see how it pans out.

I'm not as impressed as you seem to be. I suspect the system may work fine for a city car. But for American roads I just don't think it will fly.

More than one manufacturer, most notably Renault, has blown tons of money trying to penetrate the US market.

The Tesla is much more "low tech', but I'm more impressed with that approach.

The real issue on electrics is batteries. Until cheap mass produced batteries come on the market, electrics just won't be able to be built in enough quantity to affect the market.

A recent breakthrough may make hydrogen fuel cells cheaper- kinda funny but two arch rival colleges, Ohio State and Michigan, did much of the research work.

And it's simply not true that electrics don't pollute.

The manufacture creates pollution, and unless it's solar or wind, the majority of electricity is from burning coal- which ain't clean.

There ain't no free lunch. The major difference is people see car exhaust, and the electric plant is off hidden somewhere.

Even Nuclear- what do you do with all the nuclear waste?

We are pumping tons of Co2 and heat into the atmosphere while cutting down trees. the result is more carbon returned to the ecosystem.

Electricity simply doesn't solve this.

There is no one solution. It will be a complex mix, raising efficiency, while trying to recover all the lost energy being thrown away.

Every landfilled aluminum can has half a kilowatt hour of electricity in it. Aluminum can only be made where electricity is dirt cheap, like South Africa. Millions off kilowatt hours get simply landfilled every year. And more carbon burned to refine more aluminum. There's an end point in the game.

I think we are just going to have to downsize our disposable lifestyle. No more cheap consumer goods.

[selmerdave]

Originally posted by O G:
And it's simply not true that electrics don't pollute.

The manufacture creates pollution, and unless it's solar or wind, the majority of electricity is from burning coal- which ain't clean.

There ain't no free lunch. The major difference is people see car exhaust, and the electric plant is off hidden somewhere.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True of course but the relative efficiency is considerably higher for electric vehicles. You wouldn't need to burn a tank of gas to produce the electricity it takes to drive the same distance on electric power. You also waste waaaay less power (and produce waaaay less pollution) at idle. IMO one of the biggest issues and never talked about it seems. Cities have the highest concentration of pollution, the highest concentration of traffic and the slowest average driving speeds (ie most cars idling)... I wonder if there's a correlation there?

And I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here I can choose the source of my energy, 100% of my power comes from wind. Effectively anyway.

I do think it's funny that the American car companies abandoned their research, development and production of electric cars roughly a decade ago. They could have been leaders on the world scene by now.

[RacerXtreme]

I had a chance to go for a ride in GM's 4WD electric truck that holds the record for going
up Pike's Peak. It was spooky quiet and unbelievably fast. Blew my mind........

If the Chevy Volt does what it's claimed to do, it will change the automotive landscape like never before. We're testing prototypes right now. If you drive short distances, you literally may never have to stop at a gas station again.

What's that worth ?

[Old Guy]

To Convergence- what good does it do to build another factory when the existing ones can't get enough raw materials?

Hybrid cars are way behind on orders. All the battery plants in the world can't keep up.

Basically,I'm agnostic. I have read maybe ten thousand puff pieces on new ideas. 98% turned out to be bull

I simply don't believe what you're repeating, and you do.

We can argue till we are blue in the face. It won't matter. We'll know in a few years, one of us can say I told you so.

Till then I still think its a pipe dream.

[Old Guy]

Actually there were successful electric cars nearly a century ago.

The car industry is just like audio. Many good ideas don't make it.

Then there was the steam powered car, and all the vehicles converted to run on "producer gas" during WW 2.

[LICORNE]

O.G.

Quote

The real issue on electrics is batteries. Until cheap mass produced batteries come on the market, electrics just won't be able to be built in enough quantity to affect the market.


The Lithium battery plant is on schedule . Opening in 2009 for mass quantity production here in Longueuil QC.

As for reliability . I've seen the video in 96 on the news in winter in 1 foot of snow. The 4 wheel
rotor motor is more capable and more powerful than a V-8 engine.They used a Chrysler for demonstration purpose.

Right now as I write this 40 postal trucks are running through the streets of Paris equipped with
the 4 wheel motor.

It's capable on a battery to go from Montreal to Quebec and back with out recharging. that's 600 miles.
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[LICORNE]

O.G.

To Convergence- what good does it do to build another factory when the existing ones can't get enough raw materials?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The plant is already producing . It came on line in 2005.It was sold to
SAFT of France employs 250 employees called AVASTAR and is locared in Boucherville not Longueuil QC.

Who will be the main supplier ? The competition has started. BMW, Chrysler GM are looking for companies that can initially produce 5000 units per year.

There is also a company from US .

The demand is changing every 6 months.


And a lot has to do with the price of gas.

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[RonSSS]

Watch for the GM Volt.

Great looking car.

I'm a GM fan. An american car fan! The US car companies have come a long way, they make great cars now.

Too bad the US citizens are still stuck with the need to buy a Toyota.
**** ....Toyota is dominating NASCAR...huge mistake on NASCAR'S part....just adds fuel to the freak'n fire.

I can see it now....."And the Prius of Kyle Busch is leading Daytona at an astonishing 58 mph...but his batteries are charged!"

Gads zooks.

BTW...I drive a Chev Coblat SS supercharged. 25mpg city, 34+ on the highway, and it has poop! Will run low 14's in the 1/4 mile.
The standard Cobalt does better...GM has forgotten to advertise this.

Also, notice less Excersions, Suburbans, Durangos, and less huge Diesel or gas pickups on the road? I bet you can buy one cheap. The 6 figure income folks don't care. Although my guess is the 6 figure income folks also lead in the credit card debt area. I know more than a few.

Ron

[Old Guy]

Guys- I do feel the need to expand on what I said. I fear my exceptions are being interpreted as hostility, and the really aren't meant that way.

But to answer Convergence- talking about 5000 units a year is nor very valuable.

Any idea how many cars there are in the US and Canada? That's not even half a drop in the bucket.

The problem is with Lion batteries, our current ( no pun intended) best option, is the raw materials are getting to be in short supply. More factories mean more demand- which either means shortages, higher prices, or both. In the case of the Tesla I mentioned, batteries are almost half the cost of the car. Look for them to go higher.

The 10% or so drop in gasoline use is already killing highway maintenance budgets- at a time when bridges are crumbling all over the place.

So there is gonna have to be a tax on electricity to cover the shortfall. Which means senior citizens now having trouble paying will have to be bailed out- most likely a government program paid for with another tax. In other words, we will be taxed again to help some pay the first tax.

We haven't even discussed that burning coal actually pumps more radioactivity into the air than a nuclear plant does- Google it. Source is government researchers at Los Alamos.
What I took exception to was not so much that the invention was a good idea. It seems like it, and electric cars, are being presented here as a "magic bullet". There just plain is no such thing.

It took us a century to dig this hole, allowing ourselves to become dependent economically on a substance we can't control. It's gonna take a long time to dig out. And every sword cuts two ways- any improvement will have consequences.

Lastly- I have just read so many glowing press releases- I think maybe I'm just mentally calloused. The simple truth is 98% or better of new ides just plain don't work, not necessarily because they were not good ideas.

What killed Altec?

The seeds were lack of capital. I owned a bit of Altec stock it the early 70's. The joke at the time was it sold for printing cost plus ten percent.

Altec had to issue so much because of the massive inherited debt. Then came the 70's.

The explosion in sound reinforcement, and then Lucas totally changed Theatre sound.

I was young and hotheaded at the time, I was frustrated that Altec, whose products I loved, couldn't follow the market. The thing was, where were they to get research funds? Just basic survival was an issue.

I didn't understand that for an idea to succeed takes engineering, management, marketing, and capital. All of them in close communication. Surviving in the business world is not for the faint of heart. Now I've done that- I made a lot of decisions and gobbled a lot of antacids.

All I'm saying is be careful believing in quick solutions. We are headed for serious changes and adjustments.