Discussion....

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Originally Posted by MikeInNH

Friend of mine took several classes with Dr Bose at MIT. We had several interesting conversations also...More like arguments.

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I would have loved to had heard those!! lol!!

also which brings up a another bose related subject. I was laid off last Feb from a large computer chip maker. Bose had heard the word from the local area people and asked me if I would consider employment with them. I told them respectfully "I think it would be unethical for me to do so, based on your lack engineering principles, but are you guys hiring in advertising?".

Needless to say, I did not get the job I did NOT apply for..poor me.



-chris

Thomlinson Holman doesn't really know anything about how loudspeakers work, how room acoustics interact with loudspeaker propagation, directivity, frequency response, phasing, etc., how the human mind perceives sound, and on and on I could go.

I've listened to him talk a few times. I wasn't impressed.

Jim Dickinson, as I recall, had several conversations with him - TH had NO idea what he was talking about, according to Jim.

TH's biggest problem with Altec, if memory serves, was that he didn't understand the trade-off's between efficiency and excellent frequency response and high SPL's and thermal breakdown (aka driver failure). He seemed intent on having systems that were LOUD at the expense of everything else.

When I presented my paper at the AES, "Vintage Professional Loudspeakers: Their Care, Renovation, and Use" in New York, I mentioned that there is nothing that compares to the ability of a properly designed fully horn-loaded system (like the A-1's, A-2's, and A-4's) to draw the listener INTO the dialogue and the "action" in a motion picture without causing ear bleed at the same time. further. I mentioned that direct-radiator systems do NOT have the ability to respond quickly to the dynamic changes in music like bass horns can, so they try to compensate by overwhelming the listeners with large amounts of (usually distorted) sound.

I said a lot of other things, but suffice to say the THX people weren't listening...

Oh, and, yes - the manufacturers DO have to pay THX for certification. Because TH was in the back pocket of JBL, it was next to impossible for Altec to even get them to take a look at the VOTT systems, much less test them honestly.

WhiteBronco here on our forum can tell you a lot more, but, as I recall, the politics involved was unbelievable - the folks at THX just WERE NOT going to approve Altec speakers, no matter what, and on the rare occasions when the DID, the did so with prejudice.

Oh - and the folks at E-V, who owned Altec at the time, didn't help matters, either, when it came to Altec in the theatres....

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I was laid off last Feb from a large computer chip maker.

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AMD?? Only reason I ask is because I knew a couple people who got laid off from them around the same time frame.

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Bose had heard the word from the local area people and asked me if I would consider employment with them. I told them respectfully "I think it would be unethical for me to do so, based on your lack engineering principles, but are you guys hiring in advertising?".

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Actually some of Bose engineering is pretty interesting. Their noise suppression head-phones...They're trying to adapt the same technology to cars muffler systems. This is mainly their industrial division.

I've NEVER been impressed with their audio....except some of the custom design systems for cars/trucks. Some of those were exceptional.

Dr Bose is a brilliant man. He teaches engineering and Computer science at MIT. His indepth knowledge in these fields is mind boggling.

Reminds me of the old saying -

"No high's? No Low's? - It must be BOSE!"

I never understood their philosophy behind their 901's - after all, you can't hear a speaker you can't SEE - all you heard was reflections...

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I never understood their philosophy behind their 901's - after all, you can't hear a speaker you can't SEE - all you heard was reflections...

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About 30 years ago a friend of mine had a pair of 901's. He had them set up in his den. His setup was fantastic...It was one of the best setups I ever heard....

THEN....he moved the speakers to his living room. He called me up all frantic because the sound was gone...."and it was". Just to make sure he didn't destroy something in the move we moved everything back to the den...it sounded great again. The dimensions and the furniture he had in the den was well suited for the 901's. The living room wasn't. I never seen a speaker that was so room dependent in my life. The sound difference between the two rooms was like listening to a pair of VOTT's in one room...and a pair of Realistic car speakers in the next....AND I'M NOT SAYING THE 901'S SOUNDED ANYWHERE NEAR AS GOOD AS THE VOTT'S...Just using them as an example of sound difference.

I never understood why George Lucas has commented that during the late 1970's he thought that theatre sound was terrible while "Star Wars" was in it's run across america during 1977. I saw "Star Wars" here in Ohio at the old Colony Theatre out in Shaker Heights and the sound was phenomenal. It was presented in what was called back then: 70mm Dolby. I remember Altec speakers arrayed through-out the theatre along the side walls and back. Model 620 cabinets with 604-8G's if memorey serves me. I do not know what was behind the screen but I'd sure bet it was a VOTT pair or array of some sort.

Now, this was YEARS before "THX" and yet to this day it was the best cinema sound experience I ever had! I went back several times (believe it or not) just to experience the sound again & again.

True, that many or most theatres ran "Star Wars" in a standard print on a mono sound-track with a single VOTT behind the screen.....but even that average set-up sounded quite good......great I should say....given what it was. So, THAT may be what Lucas was referring to. I still say that Lucas & company attempted to fix what was never broken in the first place.

Long live ALTEC!......in our hearts & minds!!

Russ

Todd, thanks for the info about the JBL-THX thing. It did seem that everything THX was JBL in the beginning. Wasn't EV the company on the list after that? I think I remember reading a press release about that.

I know a lot of folks rant against THX, but I've heard some darn fine THX houses. I'm sure it was JBL behind the screen. Even the local multiplex where I saw Avatar sounded very nice. Clean, smooth vocals, no boomy bass, good dynamics. One nice thing is that they were not overdriving the system, as is so often the case these days. A pleasant surprise.

The ONLY thing I ever saw that was great about Bose was their marketing.
They can sell whats basically a transistor radio with 5 2" speakers, call it surround sound and sell it for $1800.00 and convince most people on paper its the best sounding system in the world. Gotta hand it to them.

I do not know why we were almost always turned down, I know I was in the middle of it a couple of times. A rumor going around says that what's-his-name that started THX had originally approached Altec with the concept and had been somehow snubbed. He then knocked on JBL's door and cut a deal. THX is a bit of a racket. It costs the theatre owner big bucks to install a system and get it approved. Then it costs more bucks to get the system certified each year. I knew of one theatre in Texas that had THX on one screen and Altec on the other. The engineer told me he much preferred the Altec sound. Most theatre owners use speakers from the THX list and never get certified.

The THX folks turned down the 288/299 driver because it could not be forced to reproduce 20kHz. The A10 was passed when we used a re-labeled EV driver (DH2012?) and the THX boys could eq the snot out of it to get 20kHz.

It is very possible that a system loaded with a 909 driver could get approval, someone would simply need to pay for it . . .

Exactly !!! I think it all had to do with putting money in Mr. Lucas's pocket.At the time Altec had a lock on the theaters with the Vott's so they didn't need Mr.Lucas and Jbl was trying to break that lock so that's where that deal came from it was around the same time I think that George Lucas formed his special effects company.Industrial,Light,and Magic what do you need to go with special effects ie;Sound Effects or Sound.If Altec didn't have the money problems they did THX would of been another passing fad like Sensurround after all Altec still sounded better to these ears.Like you said all these theaters pay for this system and never get certified,in this economy all these theater owners would have put them out to the curb and paid a onetime fee to Altec for the lattest Vott,follow the money it leads to Lucasfilms Ltd.It had more to do with a conflict with Altec than actual sound quality :rolleyes: