Converting A7 cabinets into MLTL

[mah]

Kwingylee, I had a good look at the posts I referred too and, originally, there were be more pics included. Hostboard has had problems in the past with keeping data. I lost the pics from my PC after a restore from a 'crash'. I will check my camera cards to see what I still have. If found and I can directly insert them into a reply or two I will do so. I can't use the 'thumbnail' method of posting because I was at the limit allowed.

[VolvoHeretic]

Thanks for putting all of those A7 links together GM.

[kwingylee]

Kwingylee, I had a good look at the posts I referred too and, originally, there were be more pics included. Hostboard has had problems in the past with keeping data. I lost the pics from my PC after a restore from a 'crash'. I will check my camera cards to see what I still have. If found and I can directly insert them into a reply or two I will do so. I can't use the 'thumbnail' method of posting because I was at the limit allowed.

Thanks Mah, as I go through the threads (there are a bunch, and I keep finding more), I came to realize a lot of the pictures were missing. I would have like to know for example, the cross sections of the cabinets for the MLTLs, all of which seem to be missing.

I appreciate your efforts in helping me out.

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Thanks for putting all of those A7 links together GM.

Ditto, Really really helpful...

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Hey Kwingly we have the same speaks, they are a very serious design..... Remember, and this is the rub, no speaker can do everything..... I must say with the K402 and the Tad drivers for a very small amount these things come close.... After set up properly, people who have listened to mine have all said 2 things, best I ever heard or where can I buy them.... The last group the ones gentlemen's system cost as much as a small house....

Hey Juniper, I hear ya the Jub bottoms are really really good, my current speakers come damn close to perfection (per my tin ears anyway). I dont have the K402s, I am using a 250Hz fiberglass LeCleach horn with Tad 4001s, plus a stack of ESS AMT for super tweeters. They do great for rock, jazz, blues, blue-grass, female voice, male voice, classical ...at >120dB if I want. All thanks to the guys here and on the various forums, that convince me to box up my commercially purchased turnkey speakers. The other speaker that make me want to replace them with (sometimes) are the Danley SH50s, but they neither have the low bass nor the high frequency finesse of what I have, the imaging though is to die for. Its tough to compete with a linear phase system.

Now for the A5s and I hope to be able to replicate what I heard my my buddy's house, they just have that unique, addictive presence that are very hard to describe, way beyond what the 511/811s can do. Once you hear it, you want it ....

You guys know how that is... LOL

[GM]

Thanks for putting all of those A7 links together GM.

You're welcome!

GM

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Thanks GM, I will check the links out. How did you like the "stuff" 411 solution and why did you get rid of yours?

You're welcome!


Hmm, the 'back story' is required to put into perspective our extreme pleasure at how well it worked....... I did it in 71? and had already sold them to my then next door neighbor to make more room for the three A4 systems I'd gotten for the price of a couple of six packs of beer in '69 as payment for delivery and some cash to fund some more McIntosh gear.


We'd converted a portion of his drive-in basement into a HIFI/HT room because he wanted a 'man cave' and I wanted to experiment with designing/building a SOTA listening room based on various concepts, which required a very rigid/massive construction.


At the time, he hadn't actually auditioned them, only enjoyed the A4s a lot and was sorely disappointed that the A7s were so [mid] bass-shy in comparison even though I'd explained about box size, especially when horn loaded, being the limiting factor of how much [mid] bass a speaker could make. Actual bass as such wasn't much of an issue since vinyl recordings didn't have enough to make a fuss over and the only tape system he had was a Lear Jet stereo 8.


During this time the 411 was released and having just completed my first separate, bi-amped 'sub' system POC, I had a 'brainstorming' session with the distributor's designers and we agreed that it was theoretically a good plan if bi-amped, especially since the A7s had been 'built-in' the front corners, the woofer would benefit from true 8 pi corner loading, convincing the neighbor to fund it.


Once dialed in, his system outperformed the A4s overall by a fair amount WRT extending the horn's response all the way down to below the A4's ~35 Hz Fb due to being in an optimized room/speaker location and could still play louder than anyone could stand, though of course had they been in a room/app suited for the A4s, they would have been completely 'drowned out' since efficiency was 'only' ~93 dB/4ft IIRC Vs the A4 system's in-room ~112 dB.


After this revelation, I ultimately wound up 'chopping' the horns out of the 210s [still have a few plywood scraps], converting them to corner loaded compression horns perched on top of folded pipe horn 'subs' and worked a deal to get a pair of new 511/808 and 511/802 combo for my 805/288s to stack one of each/channel to 'have my cake and eat it too' WRT getting the 'full' mids of a large format horn system, yet with the HF extension of a small format system with a bit better polar response and increased power handling as an additional 'perk'. Last, but not least, tri-amped with only the stacked 511 horns being passive. Later still, I DIYed a pair of huge [1803 based] conical WGs driven with 802s to replace the stacked pair after some experimenting with Mantaray, Tractrix not providing enough improvement to warrant further experimentation.


It stayed this way through a couple of homes until 2000 when I had to part it out along with most of the electronics, so only have the 'subs' left.


In short, I can only guess how it will sound in a current typical HIFI app, though with today's superior DSP EQ/TD, electronic bi-amping options, it could arguably be audibly better than the original, though only one way to know for sure.


For the times though, it was a real crowd 'pleaser' and 'blew the doors off' [in period correct parlance ] any HIFI system any of us had auditioned to that time, which included various Altecs, Bozak Concert Grand, JBL Hartsfield, Paragon, McIntosh, RCA LC1A, Jensen Imperial, etc., and I didn't audition any arguably superior performance until much later when McIntosh locally demo'd its then new 'flagship', the massive XR290 line arrays in an optimized room, which has only been surpassed in recent years by DSL's truly full range SH50 + dual DTS20 TH system.


Even in a large concrete block, tin roof warehouse, it met all the performance criteria I'd 'chased', but never quite attained [totally coherent point source full range horn system], so if I'm ever able to DIY a new high end system, this will be the concept, though not a clone as both were designed for prosound apps, so way too 'sharp' for even my heavily rolled off HF hearing and doesn't go low enough for a modern HIFI/HT app.


GM

[kwingylee]

You're welcome!

GM

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You're welcome!


Hmm, the 'back story' is required to put into perspective our extreme pleasure at how well it worked....... I did it in 71? and had already sold them to my then next door neighbor to make more room for the three A4 systems I'd gotten for the price of a couple of six packs of beer in '69 as payment for delivery and some cash to fund some more McIntosh gear.


We'd converted a portion of his drive-in basement into a HIFI/HT room because he wanted a 'man cave' and I wanted to experiment with designing/building a SOTA listening room based on various concepts, which required a very rigid/massive construction.


At the time, he hadn't actually auditioned them, only enjoyed the A4s a lot and was sorely disappointed that the A7s were so [mid] bass-shy in comparison even though I'd explained about box size, especially when horn loaded, being the limiting factor of how much [mid] bass a speaker could make. Actual bass as such wasn't much of an issue since vinyl recordings didn't have enough to make a fuss over and the only tape system he had was a Lear Jet stereo 8.


During this time the 411 was released and having just completed my first separate, bi-amped 'sub' system POC, I had a 'brainstorming' session with the distributor's designers and we agreed that it was theoretically a good plan if bi-amped, especially since the A7s had been 'built-in' the front corners, the woofer would benefit from true 8 pi corner loading, convincing the neighbor to fund it.


Once dialed in, his system outperformed the A4s overall by a fair amount WRT extending the horn's response all the way down to below the A4's ~35 Hz Fb due to being in an optimized room/speaker location and could still play louder than anyone could stand, though of course had they been in a room/app suited for the A4s, they would have been completely 'drowned out' since efficiency was 'only' ~93 dB/4ft IIRC Vs the A4 system's in-room ~112 dB.


After this revelation, I ultimately wound up 'chopping' the horns out of the 210s [still have a few plywood scraps], converting them to corner loaded compression horns perched on top of folded pipe horn 'subs' and worked a deal to get a pair of new 511/808 and 511/802 combo for my 805/288s to stack one of each/channel to 'have my cake and eat it too' WRT getting the 'full' mids of a large format horn system, yet with the HF extension of a small format system with a bit better polar response and increased power handling as an additional 'perk'. Last, but not least, tri-amped with only the stacked 511 horns being passive. Later still, I DIYed a pair of huge [1803 based] conical WGs driven with 802s to replace the stacked pair after some experimenting with Mantaray, Tractrix not providing enough improvement to warrant further experimentation.


It stayed this way through a couple of homes until 2000 when I had to part it out along with most of the electronics, so only have the 'subs' left.


In short, I can only guess how it will sound in a current typical HIFI app, though with today's superior DSP EQ/TD, electronic bi-amping options, it could arguably be audibly better than the original, though only one way to know for sure.


For the times though, it was a real crowd 'pleaser' and 'blew the doors off' [in period correct parlance ] any HIFI system any of us had auditioned to that time, which included various Altecs, Bozak Concert Grand, JBL Hartsfield, Paragon, McIntosh, RCA LC1A, Jensen Imperial, etc., and I didn't audition any arguably superior performance until much later when McIntosh locally demo'd its then new 'flagship', the massive XR290 line arrays in an optimized room, which has only been surpassed in recent years by DSL's truly full range SH50 + dual DTS20 TH system.


Even in a large concrete block, tin roof warehouse, it met all the performance criteria I'd 'chased', but never quite attained [totally coherent point source full range horn system], so if I'm ever able to DIY a new high end system, this will be the concept, though not a clone as both were designed for prosound apps, so way too 'sharp' for even my heavily rolled off HF hearing and doesn't go low enough for a modern HIFI/HT app.


GM

Holy cripes...So the 411s are in a sealed enclusure stuff'ed in a corner of your neighbor's basement, with A4s? That system will be awesome now with a >100" projection screen! You don't happen to have pictures do you? I agree with some others... you should be writing a book: A practical history of Altec VOTTs, from the theater to the home.

[Altec Best]

I agree with some others... you should be writing a book: A practical history of Altec VOTTs, from the theater to the home.

Yup GM is the MAN !

And one of our resident gurus !

[kwingylee]

Holy cripes...So the 411s are in a sealed enclusure stuff'ed in a corner of your neighbor's basement, with A4s? That system will be awesome now with a >100" projection screen! You don't happen to have pictures do you? I agree with some others... you should be writing a book: A practical history of Altec VOTTs, from the theater to the home.

Guys:
I found a local set of 411s here. The guy wants $200.00 for the pair. Is that a good price??

[Altec Best]

Do you have a link ?

[kwingylee]

Do you have a link ?

altec 411-8a 1.jpg

[Altec Best]

Can't tell much from that photo but depends on the cones.Are the cones original ? Aftermarket ? or are they GPA's... If you can find out those questions can give you a better idea.. I had a very nice pair I sold to Phil-G for $300 but they were freshly reconed/re-magnetized by GPA and never put back into service yet.So if you can do an estimate from that..I'm not sure if he used them yet or if he is going to use them at all.If not ask him if he wants to sell them.. Those are in pristine condition.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/members/phil-g.html