OT: SET amps for Altec compression drivers

[LowOhms]

SpeakerDave,

Yeah, everyone wants something for nothing.

It becomes a problem, because my friend is in the audio business ( I am not) and I can not give out things that undermines him, and are his intellectual property.

I have written a long article, never published, on the history of this circuit, and there is, a certain amount therein, on its implementation.

If you want to use it as a background, and then, proceed on your own, contact me, and I can email it to you.

NONE of us, can build it any wheres NEAR the end result that Dennis can, which is the reason to have his product, hand-made by Dennis. One obtains immediately, ultra-high performance and enjoyment, beyond anything else they can hook up to their ALTEC speaker system.

Contact me, and I will get your email address, so as to send it as an attachment.

REGARDS, Jeff Medwin

[BillWojo]

Mr LowOhms, your absolutely right. I have never heard of your amp guy but if what he was making was all that and than some, I'm sure he would be chatted about and his designs would have been copied by now. The sincerest form of flattery in this business is when others rip off your design.
As far as Dennis Had, he stands on his reputation with thousands voting on his designs with cold hard cash, both from Cary and his limited sales of the FireBottle amp. The man is retired but still likes to hand build a few now and than. Anything that he builds is snatched up immediately!
Possibly your guys amps and your speaker mods sound fantastic to your ears, that is all well and good. I'm really very happy for you. But you seem to discount all the collective wisdom and experience from the members on this board, as if we just recently discovered Altec's and tubes and need guidance.
You seem to think that anyone not following your path is dead wrong and there is no other path but yours. You have made that quite clear many times. It's getting old.

BillWojo

[speakerdave]

SpeakerDave,

Yeah, everyone wants something for nothing.

It becomes a problem, because my friend is in the audio business ( I am not) and I can not give out things that undermines him, and are his intellectual property.

I have written a long article, never published, on the history of this circuit, and there is, a certain amount therein, on its implementation.

If you want to use it as a background, and then, proceed on your own, contact me, and I can email it to you.

NONE of us, can build it any wheres NEAR the end result that Dennis can, which is the reason to have his product, hand-made by Dennis. One obtains immediately, ultra-high performance and enjoyment, beyond anything else they can hook up to their ALTEC speaker system.

Contact me, and I will get your email address, so as to send it as an attachment.

REGARDS, Jeff Medwin

I thank you for your offer. I will not trouble you further about it, however, because I have no plans to build a DHT SET amplifier. That is one reason I pulled my post. I've thought about such amps from time to time, mostly as a result of running across discussions of them online coincidently with feeling a little dissatisfaction with the treble I was getting.
The second reason I pulled my post was that I'm not having that problem right now.

Third, I realized that though I might be allowed some latititude in responding to the tone of your entries, it was probably true that you were really just trying to share your positive experience finding the gates of audio nirvana and were not just simply insisting for no reason that your idea be the dominant one. I thought, Why should I be so easily irked? It's not my problem! I'm at the gates of audio nirvana too! I looked around for you and found you at another gate arguing about amps. After all, how many gates were there in The City of David?

I'm just listening to music!

Fourth is, well . . . Montana. Geez what a beautiful place. And apparently its people, who must have the ability to deal with the wild and rugged without spoiling it, are on average taller than elsewhere, which I like, since I'm also taller than the average. Anyway, here's what happened. I read recently a news story about a billionaire named Thiel (don't know if he's any relation) who somehow managed to short cut the steps for getting a citizenship in New Zealand. One of the reasons he wanted that is that he sees New Zealand as a haven for the time when the distopian visions billionaires sometimes have will be visited upon the rest of us, you know, plagues, nuclear winter and failed states. Well, see, there are some places in the US that are sometimes seen in the same way--Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, the Rogue River Valley, places where the winds won't drift the fallout on you and are more than a tank of gas distant from the worst cities. So, I was reading about your amp, the most perfect amp, and you mentioned Serious Stereo in Montana, and I just linked the two things and I got this sense of a bunch of goddamn billionaires sitting around in huge log cabins reading their calf-bound Boccaccio, sipping the best whiskey, smoking the best herb, eating elk steaks and listening to the best amp, and it just PISSED ME OFF.

Once I realized what happened, I pulled my post. It wasn't that I wanted something for nothing.

My bad.

[LowOhms]

Today's designs, yes, but the originals were SET until they invented P-P and relegated the SET to pre-amp duty.

The amp's topology per se doesn't determine its output impedance, its coupling transformer does. You can wire one of today's SS amps to an outboard tranny and get a goodly portion of the tube era 'sound' [smiley face EQ]. Carver use to sell a SS amp that allowed a series resistor be switched into the circuit to do it and LCR filters are in common use to do it for both single driver speakers and called CD horn EQ for SS driven 'rising on axis' horns. The lure of tubes is the euphonic harmonic distortion it adds to a recording, etc., which some years ago was proven could be successfully mimic'd by inserting white noise into the recording loop to overcome the 'dry'/analytical sound of early digital recordings.


Personally and probably due to having basically life-long tinnitus, I only prefer SET amps coupled to 'FR' speakers, but to accurately reproduce sound requires a flat amplitude and phase response, so Class A is the primary goal, though due to our generally so-so hearing acuity, a small amount [< DF = 20] is acceptable.


All the SETs I've tried were reasonably priced because they came out of old radios, consoles, TVs, etc., back when consumers no longer wanted tubes. Today if I wanted a new one I guess I'd have to buy one of those Chinese kits sold on Alibaba that are so popular with the 'FR' speaker aficionados.


The only other tube amps I've used are Mac MC60 that sounded too 'dark' and Mac 300B MC375 that I swapped out to make my first SS bi-amped compression horn system and have never looked back, though hindsight being 20-20, wish I'd kept the MC375 after seeing what it and the retro one sells for nowadays.


GM



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Yes, though the main reason is its high DF gives it much better control over the driver and much more flexible tuning options, i.e. its T/S specs dominate.

It's desirable for the tube/horn to be passive and digital for SS, though of course it's fine if converting an existing speaker.

GM

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Hmm, we all hear the same, yet not so much, so imagine there's others with a similar mindset, but to me it's like claiming that aspiring to whatever technology designed after the mid 1940s is 'a waste of one 's time, money, efforts, and life' for the rest of us, which definitely doesn't work for me.

GM

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In your [not so humble] opinion. Again, we all hear the same, yet not so much, not to mention virtually all rooms 'color' a speaker's performance to a greater or lesser extent, making such 'absolute' statements about what we should be doing/using is just hearsay at best unless one can prove it more accurately reproduces the signal at least in theory.

GM

Dear GM,

You thoughtfully concluded your post above by saying " unless one can prove it more accurately reproduces the signal at least in theory."


OK, here is the "Theory" Question:

IF theoretically a film cap existed that was simultaneously :

(a) rated at 1,540 Amperes of current, peak / instantaneous,

and ALSO,

(b) measures at 1.4 milli Ohms of ESR, at 100 KHZ

Would it be advantageous if I employed said capacitor throughout a good amplifier's power supply, and also in the ALTEC speaker's crossover filters, to reproduce music's transient - nature more faithfully ??


What kind sir, would you think?????


Respectfully,


Jeff Medwin




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Mr LowOhms, your absolutely right. I have never heard of your amp guy but if what he was making was all that and than some, I'm sure he would be chatted about and his designs would have been copied by now. The sincerest form of flattery in this business is when others rip off your design.
As far as Dennis Had, he stands on his reputation with thousands voting on his designs with cold hard cash, both from Cary and his limited sales of the FireBottle amp. The man is retired but still likes to hand build a few now and than. Anything that he builds is snatched up immediately!
Possibly your guys amps and your speaker mods sound fantastic to your ears, that is all well and good. I'm really very happy for you. But you seem to discount all the collective wisdom and experience from the members on this board, as if we just recently discovered Altec's and tubes and need guidance.
You seem to think that anyone not following your path is dead wrong and there is no other path but yours. You have made that quite clear many times. It's getting old.

BillWojo

Hi Bill,

Your response makes no sense to me, and your logic is deeply flawed.

First of all, being in Audio, and not knowing who Dennis Fraker is, tells me something about how deep you go in this hobby.

As Stereophile's Reichert clearly wrote in that RMAF 2016 Show report ( about Dennis Fraker and Serious Stereo ) : "

" Never heard of him ? Shame on you ! "

Your logic is totally flawed on amplifiers. The mark of a great amp is NOT, as you so illogically point out, who copies it, or how many are sold to the un-washed masses !!!!!!

The mark of a good amp is to put it in the room with a competing amp, on a GOOD system, and ( blindfolded if necessary ) LISTEN to which one sounds best. That, and reliability, are ALL that counts !!! . The Dennis Had SEP amp would fare in the " kiddie league " in such a comparison. Sometimes, we get what we pay for.

You may get tired of " me " saying " what is best - IMHO.

That is OK, someone has to tell the truth as they see and directly experience it over their lifetime. I will continue to speak my mind and contribute.. I apologize, for using the word un-washed.

You don't have to follow me, or even read my posts. Somebody will....maybe only me !! :-) Regards,

Jeff Medwin

[BillWojo]

MrLowOhms, what happened to your post directed at me? Belittling Dennis Had and insulting me because I don't read the magazines that you do. I could give a rats ass as to what those magazine editors think. I have ears just like they do!
They sing the praises of outrageously expensive speakers with pint size woofers and proclaim them to have deep bass. As my friend who has been to the big audio shows says, it's "fake bass", nothing at all like real speakers. Those magazine editors have an agenda to push products that are heavily advertised in there publication.
When I raced motorcycles, I didn't buy the oils that were heavily advertised in my favorite magazines, I used the oils with a long history of working.
I also have more than a passing knowledge of electricity being a machine tool service tech, I know how to size service runs to machine tools whether they be powered by a 1 HP or 100 HP motor.
I find that your thinking on such matters, that only "you can hear" to be totally out to lunch. If it really made a difference it could be measured, if it really made a difference it would be on blast on all the audio forums. It's not! Please take your crazy ideas and try them over on the DIYaudio Forum. Lets see what they have to say.

BillWojo

Ok, now I see your post is back up!

[LowOhms]

MrLowOhms, what happened to your post directed at me? Belittling Dennis Had and insulting me because I don't read the magazines that you do. I could give a rats ass as to what those magazine editors think. I have ears just like they do!
They sing the praises of outrageously expensive speakers with pint size woofers and proclaim them to have deep bass. As my friend who has been to the big audio shows says, it's "fake bass", nothing at all like real speakers. Those magazine editors have an agenda to push products that are heavily advertised in there publication.
When I raced motorcycles, I didn't buy the oils that were heavily advertised in my favorite magazines, I used the oils with a long history of working.
I also have more than a passing knowledge of electricity being a machine tool service tech, I know how to size service runs to machine tools whether they be powered by a 1 HP or 100 HP motor.
I find that your thinking on such matters, that only "you can hear" to be totally out to lunch. If it really made a difference it could be measured, if it really made a difference it would be on blast on all the audio forums. It's not! Please take your crazy ideas and try them over on the DIYaudio Forum. Lets see what they have to say.

BillWojo

Ok, now I see your post is back up!

Hi Bill !!

I was unable to delete my post. I will ask the Moderators to do that.

Here is something for you to see, very ironic :

Look who has gone LSES on his power supplies, in retirement years - drlowmu - Tube DIY Asylum

I did make one technical error there, but its a minor one.

[mah]

MrLowOhms, what happened to your post directed at me? Belittling Dennis Had and insulting me because I don't read the magazines that you do. I could give a rats ass as to what those magazine editors think. I have ears just like they do!
They sing the praises of outrageously expensive speakers with pint size woofers and proclaim them to have deep bass. As my friend who has been to the big audio shows says, it's "fake bass", nothing at all like real speakers. Those magazine editors have an agenda to push products that are heavily advertised in there publication.
When I raced motorcycles, I didn't buy the oils that were heavily advertised in my favorite magazines, I used the oils with a long history of working.
I also have more than a passing knowledge of electricity being a machine tool service tech, I know how to size service runs to machine tools whether they be powered by a 1 HP or 100 HP motor.
I find that your thinking on such matters, that only "you can hear" to be totally out to lunch. If it really made a difference it could be measured, if it really made a difference it would be on blast on all the audio forums. It's not! Please take your crazy ideas and try them over on the DIYaudio Forum. Lets see what they have to say.

BillWojo

Ok, now I see your post is back up!

Jeff Medwin is banned from DIYaudio.

[Elitopus1]

Lol

[valhallax]

I live in Montana..run 210's in the living room, the waf factor be damned, large format horns, in an actively crossed over 4 way solid state system, all altec...its the best! how could life be any better?

[Elitopus1]

I live in Montana..run 210's in the living room, the waf factor be damned, large format horns, in an actively crossed over 4 way solid state system, all altec...its the best! how could life be any better?

Your wife is a keeper for sure! Any pics of the setup?