Westrex Electric FS

[SA660]

I am selling 2 Westrex electric WE 2080A working but very old (15" bass driver similar to ALTEC 515A).
I am also considering selling 4 Western electric WE30928. All working. (12" bass driver similar to Vitavox AK120)

The lot for 2000euro
The 4 WE30928 came froma cinema [img]graemlins/film.gif[/img] and were loading a dual 12" front horn cabinet.
The 2080A were loaded in the dual 15" front horm cabinet.
I aslo have a single Western electric horn 8cells for sale. Offer welcome. There are smaller than the Vitavox Horns.

Orign is Ireland. So shipping to be added, bare this in mind when you make an offer.


I will sell seperately. I must say that I am not very please to have to sell the 4 WE30928. They are so rare. [img]graemlins/cry_smile.gif[/img]

Regards,

[ktastl]

I am looking for 515A. If you can ship to Japan. I would like to buy WE 2080A. Please let me know the status.

[SA660]

No problem,

I will send you picture to your private mail.
The 2080A are very heavy and the shipping cost to japan will be very high.
I have 2 WE2080A with no dust cap. You will need to buy them to protect the voice coil travel from dust.
I have another WE2080A that is working but the cone is tear in several place. A new cone will be required.
I also have a single 515 (A) the first version.
It will need a cone. very poor condition and rusty.
A US company can repair all 4 and remagnetise all 4. If you are happy with it you can pay me and I will ship 2 our 4 directly to the US company for repair. Then you will have 4 new 15" driver. I understand that the cone will not be the original but I can tell you that the later 15" cone place in old magnet is better and has lower distorsion because of the better supension on the outer diameter.

The price will be for chassis only even if the cones are working I can not honestly sell them for good looking/working condition unit.
I would sell the 4 drivers for 1000euro.
The shipping to Japan will be around same with DHL and 3 days only.

Regards,

[Romy the Cat]

Richard, would you be so kind. If you can, to give me some reference points how from you point of view the WE 15-inchers sound subjectively different form the older Altecs, JBLs, Jensens, Electro-Voices, Vitavoxs 15-inchers, the Klangfilm and JBL 14-inchers? (Also it would be nice to know how they were applied)

Rgs,
Romy the Cat
GoodSoundClub.com

[SA660]

Romy the Cat,

I would love to give you reference points to compare all the different 15" that you mentioned.

So Far I can say that, I know the following :
15" JBL 2234, 2226, and E145-H.
15" ALTEC 515B and 604-E
15" WE2080-A
I have a pair of 15" P15LL imperial Jensen but I never build the cabinets to listen to them.
I also sold 2 pairs of Vitavox 15" AK151 and AK154 but never build cabinets for theses either.

I listen to the WE2080A inside a JBL 4560 front horn loaded cabinet. This drivers give the best sound from 70Hz to 600Hz inside this cabinet.
Very fast and cleat bass and medium.

The JBL drivers that could compare with is the E145-H.

I would only used 2226 and 2234 in bass reflex cabinet. These 2 drivers will have good aptitude to go low with no distorsion.

The Jensen will be in bass reflex very closed to the 515A and 604E.
I own a custom cabinet made with both 515 and 604. The crossover design was very similar to the crossover of the JBL4435. The 604-E was using the standard ALTEC N1500 crossover and the 515B add a big coil may be 4mH for the low frequency response only. They shared the same volume. The sound was very good but I did not like the crossover between the compression and the 604-E cone.
I was thinking of building a Jensen cabinet for mounting all the different driver and try to find the best one for a compact rear horn.
I have JBL plans for the C34 and Jensen plans for the Jensen imperial reproducer (2 different models)and the Jensen BL220 (very compact horn).
I would love to find plans of the CN191.
I do not have enough time to build test and compare different drivers. I am very young and I concentrate on buying drivers for my later days, hopefully Iwould have then more time to plays with all the drivers.

regards

[Romy the Cat]

Hm, the JBL 4560 is not particularly good cabinet. It has bass-reflex rear chamber and too shallow horn. In this truncated horn a 15-incher operates as horn-loaded down to ~150Hz and whatever is lower acts as a direct radiator? (Not to mention to synthetic LF boos coming from the rear port) So, pretty much what we are taking about when we?re comparing the drivers in this enclosure would be: which driver?s coil jump further out from the saturated zone of it?s gap while it is operating as a direct radiator and while it reaching it?s max excursion. To properly load 50Hz with 15-inchers you would need at least 6-7 feet of pure-horn length then we would be able to use the driver as it meant to be. Otherwise, we do not talk about the driver but about the different imperfections of the different improper ways to use the drivers?. Unfortunately when we go to the full-blown project with a properly done 50Hz horn (of curse front loaded and explicitly straight) then we face a number of quit complex problem (time equalization and so on)?

Richard, the reason I was asking because I do not know the answer. I tried many bass drivers except the WE's bass drivers and do have some of my suspicions about the WE. However, what I did learn that many people attribute the specific properties of the LF driver?s performance to the driver themselves, despite that those properties were the results of the drivers unitizations, enclosures, loading, amplifier interface, the way in witch the drivers were crossovered, rooms and many other influential attributes, that are so aggressive at LF.

For some reasons, (and now I am not talking about you, Richard, but about my past experience my local US guys) when I have seen the WE people and when I tried to used them to learn about WE bass drivers they begin to express so much attitude and aplomb that it was laughable, It was dual pathetic that they demonstrated that ?know that all tired self-confidence? despite that they built their entire installations with very nasty mistakes, had very limited comprehending how the thing done in audio besides the screaming to telephone: ?Oh man, this is the Cool Western Electric!?, and they had very ?debatable? musical inclinations.

I remember one guy with a WE midrange and bass-bin (!) was telling me for 30-minutes how wonderful his midrange drives sound with vocals in operas but?. to my surprise he was not able to name a single one opera composer that he liked and he did not know who were Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Alfredo Kraus. I finished that conversation with an advice to stick that WE horn (funny-exponential many-angular) along with that WE driver right in his ass. I remember he did not appreciate what I advised him?

Anyhow I still do not know what is so special, if anything, about the WE bass drivers?

I am sure my attitude does not help me to learn either?

Rgs,
Romy the CAT

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 18, 2004 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Romy the Cat ]</font>

[SA660]

Romy the Cat,

Boy you talk, without diplomatie!!!
I have not problem with it.
The WE2080A were try in this JBL 4560 because they were here in the house. You are right to say that a bass horn should be at least 6-7 feet long.
But I do not have any cabinets like this.
Personnaly I like/prefer the JBL driver for LF. Place in the proper cabinet like the 4435, you should be very impressed. I can corrolate your feeling with my experience of the WE2080A but I felt that I did not gave them a good chance of testing them in a more appropriate cabinet. I have some ALTEC 515A and WE2080A. They look very similar in fabrication. I would not expect a big difference in performace.
Do you know any other way to test and play these WE2080A 15"?

Regards,

[ktastl]

Richard
I think your impression is right.
Regading your impression speakers. What corss over frequency did you use.If the cross frequency may be about 500Hz or more, the woofer will be
covered about Low resonance frequency ( 50 to 100Hz) to 2K to 3Khz. I think Your impressions is the harmonics of speaker.In Japan, we hear speakers at open air condition, in this case we
can not hear fundamental, only hear harmonics.
It is very important point. The lower frequency side is depend on box and Q.(Thiel small analysis theory)I have a chance the altec 515B woofer in 612 box and/or Jensen Onken Ultraflex box. It was very difference bass sound each other.

[Romy the Cat]

*** The WE2080A were try in this JBL 4560 because they were here in the house.

Richard, I appreciate that you do not take all this things personally and understand that we deal with a subjects but not with the rules of bowing. If I remember correctly the JBL said the 4560 provide 6dB selectivity boost somewhere down to 200Hz. In such case the 200Hz is the lowest frequency the enclose work as a horn. I usually laughing when I go to the home of some guys who cross the 4560olike boxed at 100Hz and ask me is I like this bass hors?

*** You are right to say that a bass horn should be at least 6-7 feet long. But I do not have any cabinets like this.

Oh. Do not even go there. This is a subject of my permanent pain?

Do you know any other way to test and play these WE2080A 15"?

This is the most intelligent reply that I ever heard at this forum. Obviously a straight (or in the worst case a J-horn) would be the answer but there are many ?if? how that horn might be used. Those big upper bass horns act very ?different? with approximation to the room?s boundaries as well as there are many other variables? Only God knows what come out of them as a contribution of the drivers, what is a properly of the horn-room interaction and what is a property of the horno-coloration itself? I really do not have answer or any evaluation techniques that would be able to distinct it confidently.

The best 15-incher that I have ever tried among all were 151 and I?m still finding a hundred different ways to used it and it all time produce slightly different result. What I know defiantly that so far I do not use it in the ?proper? way- that way I intend to.

Anyhow, your reply that you have no idea how the WE2080A itself performs compare to other 15-inchers sounds to me more lucid then anything else.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat

[Romy the Cat]

To Ktastl:

*** I think Your impressions is the harmonics of speaker. In Japan, we hear speakers at open-air condition; in this case we can not hear fundamental, only hear harmonics. It is very important point.

Ktastl, I know very well what you guys listen when you listen your drivers in open air. I do the very much the same but in there is a lot of more in it to consider.

Japanese, similar to few others like Chinese, Koreans, have quite different relationship with sounds. You guys have within your language amplitude of pitch and height of a tone as something that modifies the definition of the words. Therefore evolutionary your awareness is accustomed to recognize the intellectual definition of tone and harmonics. You guys not necessary live in the world of the fundamental but mostly in the world of harmonics. A western person has no intellectual definition of harmonics and the primary live but the impact of the fundamental. The western people (or whoever whose languages has no tone definition) can appreciate harmonics but the use them as adjectives but not as nouns. The may get an emotional or esthetic satisfaction form the harmonics but not the intellectual. If you look at the original Japanese classical music in context of the above said and compare it with the western music then the picture will be very clear. Most of the westerners would consider the Japanese classical music boring like hell primary because they are not able to build an intellectualism around the multitude of the tonal shadows. BTW, this is of the reasons why we around the World have a lot of the magnificent oriental string players (the harmonics base instruments) but most of the people from your countries play piano are quite horrible (fundamentals-based instrument).

So, when you and Richard from UK (or me) listen the drivers in the open air we most likely listen for the different things?

Rgs,
Romy the Cat