Westrex Electric FS

[SA660]

Romy,

What can I say?
Thank you for you response. I am now very upset to have sold the pair of AK151 after your comment.
But I would still love to be able to load this WE2080A drivers.

Regards

[Romy the Cat]

Richard,

may I ask if the WE2080A has hard external suspensions? Dose it have it as the Altec/JBL/EV - light paper/cloth type of suspension or it has the hard external suspensions like Vitavox/Klangfilm? Do you have more AK151?

Do not be disappointed that you sold then - they are not a panacea. Any hard suspension, stiff, paper drivers do fine, the 10/40 for instance and few others. They all have the distinctions in sound due to their cones ?tones?. The AK151 has quite ?colored? cone but the question is: How it will be used?

I think if I convert all time I spent to collect and evaluate all those damn drivers into a billable hours then I would be able to get rid all my drivers, buy a room with no neighbors with a few thousands sq feet more than I have now, bring into the room a pair of the NATURALLY-SPACE DELAYED 9-feet, strait, mid bass horns and then I will show to any horno-dude a big middle finger. :-) All the rest fantasies and half-ass solutions that we use are too pathetic to take them seriously.

The Pussy?

[SA660]

Romy,

The 2080A have paper suspension part of the cone.
and phenolic spided.
The ALTEC 515 (A) are the same.
I also have 4 WE30928. They are 12" drivers with all paper cones.
The brochures explain the reason for clothes/rubber suspension to extend the low frequencies response and reduce the distorsion due to the change of stiffeness on the cone.
Sorry I do not have any more AK151.

Regards,

[Romy the Cat]

*** I also have 4 WE30928. They are 12" drivers with all paper cones.

I do not know why (actually I believe I do but my explanation would sound too ?flowery?) but the 12" drivers (any of them) never sound good. 6?, 8?, 10?, 15? 18? are fine but 12? kind of strange?. Put in this way I never heard any interestingly sounding 12-incher?

***The brochures explain the reason for clothes/rubber suspension to extend the low frequencies response and reduce the distorsion due to the change of stiffeness on the cone.

Unfortunately the brochures are wrong. Cloth external suspension still might work if it was properly done and the cone/driver meant to be used with it but when the rubber suspension kicks in then the problems begun. Even if the anti-resonance, very high quality rubber used (like some of the Scan Speak models for instance) then rubber still sucks all life out of cone. You see, it absorbs the micro-resonanses that live in music (wait when I write up about the second listing level at my site, I will cover it). Sine those micro-resonanses are bleached the driver loose ability to discriminate harmonics and overtones and this driver should be used only for listening of Patricia Barber? However, I would admit that a rubber suspended driver (with very hard suspension) still might be user in the applications when a channel with the rubber driver covers very narrow frequency range (one octave or less) and has very steep roll-offs. In this situation the problems with the sharp band-path are so severe that they mask out the problem introduced by rubber suspension. Anyhow, I would be very surprise to learn that WE used the rubberized cloth. I was under impression that the audio engineering fools started to used it fairly late, when the WE long gone?

Rgs,
The Cat

[SA660]

Romy the cat,

Have a look at this web site
http://membres.lycos.fr/stephane3000/

and go to this page:
http://membres.lycos.fr/stephane3000...trex_2080a.htm


You should be able tom see mint condition original WE2080A.

Regards

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 28, 2004 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Richard Debarbouille ]</font>

[Romy the Cat]

I can?t read French, but looking at the pictures, perhaps I am wrong, but it is a regular No-Z, paper suspension with no cloth or rubber. Considering what they did it should be quite stiff and have a quite high open-air resonance. I am personally not a big fan of thus drivers, as I never knew how to use them. They do not go very low and the best optimized for midrange, however I prefer do not use at midrange any 15? drivers. If I have this driver I would not know where to use it. It would probably be OK for 70-80Hz, straight, ~3-4 feet-long, 6? input, upperbass horn with 5-6 feet mouth?. However, no one would know anything until one actually has it and play with it for and few weeks, learning what the driver actulay needs would be?.

Rgs,
The caT

[ktastl]

HI. The resonance frequency of The horn driver was set of mid frequency point. Because of resistive load. In this case, it will change stiff and resonance frequency. These speaker, it will better to use low damping amplifier ( 300B single with no feed back)These high resonance frequency speaker are VITAVOX, Altec 515A, Westrex 2080, Krangfilm. High stiff speaker will be very good sound at mid frequency area. The capacitive load speaker (most woofer) was set to lower end frequency. If you are interest, it was written C.W.Rice, E.W.Kellogg GE/RCA engineer at 1925.

[Romy the Cat]

ktastl , yes, and no. I have nothing against high resonant frequency. All that I am saying that if the driver has high resonance and is good enough only for lower midrange the how it should be used? Should it be use in a horn between 100 Hz and 1000Hz? So, have you head how the 15? 515A, Krangfilm and Vitavox handle something above 400-500Hz? They do not sound good higher then 400-500Hz and there are much better performers for this region with lighter cone mass and less diameter. Have you head how the 15? 515A, Krangfilm and Vitavox handle something below 150Hz? The question is in which enclosure? The horns with 15? throat are worthless because that are too short at low regency the drivers act as the direct radiators. If you drive the throats smaller you end up with larger horns and? to do what? To effectively cover with a huge horn the useful region of 100-400Hz? I do not think the C.W.Rice and E.W.Kellogg wrote about it in 1925?

:-)
The Cat

Reminder: my comment should be taken with a perspective that I generally did not like whatever WE did. I do not like their transformers and their 300B tubes; I do not like even their small signal or regulator tubes. I do not like their speakers (I hear very few of them though and not the best of them)

[SA660]

Romy,

Sorry about the french! This is my origin.
Earlier when I mentioned the WE2080a in a JBL 4560 cabinet an active crossover was cutting it from 80hz to 600hz.

Regards,

[4423mark]

Romy the Cat,

I would love to give you reference points to compare all the different 15" that you mentioned.

So Far I can say that, I know the following :
15" JBL 2234, 2226, and E145-H.
15" ALTEC 515B and 604-E
15" WE2080-A
I have a pair of 15" P15LL imperial Jensen but I never build the cabinets to listen to them.
I also sold 2 pairs of Vitavox 15" AK151 and AK154 but never build cabinets for theses either.

I listen to the WE2080A inside a JBL 4560 front horn loaded cabinet. This drivers give the best sound from 70Hz to 600Hz inside this cabinet.
Very fast and cleat bass and medium.

The JBL drivers that could compare with is the E145-H.

I would only used 2226 and 2234 in bass reflex cabinet. These 2 drivers will have good aptitude to go low with no distorsion.

The Jensen will be in bass reflex very closed to the 515A and 604E.
I own a custom cabinet made with both 515 and 604. The crossover design was very similar to the crossover of the JBL4435. The 604-E was using the standard ALTEC N1500 crossover and the 515B add a big coil may be 4mH for the low frequency response only. They shared the same volume. The sound was very good but I did not like the crossover between the compression and the 604-E cone.
I was thinking of building a Jensen cabinet for mounting all the different driver and try to find the best one for a compact rear horn.
I have JBL plans for the C34 and Jensen plans for the Jensen imperial reproducer (2 different models)and the Jensen BL220 (very compact horn).
I would love to find plans of the CN191.
I do not have enough time to build test and compare different drivers. I am very young and I concentrate on buying drivers for my later days, hopefully Iwould have then more time to plays with all the drivers.

regards

i have a pair of jensen bl220 speakers in good shape any idea what i should ask for them thanks mark