You can just go ahead and blame Pogue Mahone for t

**The Vainglorious One** · November 9th, 2001, 07:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MgoBlue-LightSpecial:
I don't understand how the crime rate WOULDN'T rise if we banned guns.... yet you just read just as many obituaries each day?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thread Foul!

You already said GODDNIGHTNOW!

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No sig.

**MgoBlue-LightSpecial** · November 9th, 2001, 07:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Smackie Chan:
My point exactly. If there is no gun to pick up, another decision has to be made.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the ignorance lies with WHY you think there will be no gun to pick up? And if we by chance get rid of all the guns, then wouldn't we have to outlaw the next "weapon" that is the #1 cause of death in crimes?

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If you ever drop your keys in a river of molten lava, forget it man, cuz they're gone.

-The Great Jack Handey

**Smackie Chan** · November 9th, 2001, 07:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by J in Fresneck:

They could stop the manufacture of handguns now but there are already so many it would take a hundred years to cause a dent in the amount taken from the public.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what? Better than 200 years.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Not many people feel safe enough to hand their personal safety fully over to Big Brother and that's a fact, until that happens there will never be an answer to the gun situation in America.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're probably right, but it seems that for some reason even those who agree that tougher gun control laws are needed are quick to concede defeat. It's also interesting that if the government takes action to remove guns from the hands of those who would use them to do harm to others, those who are protected by the government's actions then turn their distrust toward...the government that is trying to protect them!!! Forgive me if I fail to see the reasoning behind this.

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I moderate with hate

**The Vainglorious One** · November 9th, 2001, 07:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Smackie Chan:
So you're saying that private gun ownership doesn't deter the Feds from taking aggressive action against its citizens?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, I'm saying it ISN'T. Ban guns and all possiblity of it working fades.

Again, The States can ban guns. If they feel they should, then I will peaceble protest and vote for what I feel are my Rights.

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**Smackie Chan** · November 9th, 2001, 07:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MgoBlue-LightSpecial:

But the ignorance lies with WHY you think there will be no gun to pick up?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Because in the hypothetical country I'm describing, I can arrange the circumstances any way I choose, and I choose to have neither handguns nor ammunition available.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
And if we by chance get rid of all the guns, then wouldn't we have to outlaw the next "weapon" that is the #1 cause of death in crimes?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does this "weapon" have any other practical use other than killing people? If so, no. If not, yes.

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I moderate with hate

**The Vainglorious One** · November 9th, 2001, 07:15 AM

Now for the end of your argument...
" But the right granted in the Second Amendment is one I would gladly surrender in exchange for being able to open any newspaper in any American city on any day and not have to read about some senseless death resulting from our insistence to allow almost anyone to own a gun."

Paraphrasing..."He who gives up freedom for security ends up with neither."

Sincerely,
Ben Franklin

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No sig.

[This message has been edited by The Vainglorious One (edited November 09, 2001).]

**MgoBlue-LightSpecial** · November 9th, 2001, 07:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Why? Because in the hypothetical country I'm describing, I can arrange the circumstances any way I choose, and I choose to have neither handguns nor ammunition available.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then try and think in terms of reality where handguns and ammunition will continue to remain available regardless of any law imposed - that's America. If you're basing your logic and arguments on fairytale thoughts of what life "could be like" then that's just sad. Almost as sad as using other societies and countries as examples of how things "could be" in this country.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Does this "weapon" have any other practical use other than killing people? If so, no. If not, yes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That shouldn't matter. The inherent purpose of something isn't as relevant as its current purpose. Time can alter the use of something in ways unimaginable.

I don't believe in banning anything that causes death, but stick to the basic principle that if you're going to ban one thing - you'd have to look at everything else that is killing just as many and/or more people in massive quantities. The purpose of "it", this thing, this object, this car, this drug, should not matter - what matters is it's killing people and just as innocent as those who die by guns. You have to recognize them all as problems.

When someone gets hit and dies by a drunk driver, did they choose their fate? Is it fair for the family of that person who died by a drunk driver, just as it is not fair for a family member who loses someone to a bullet?

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If you ever drop your keys in a river of molten lava, forget it man, cuz they're gone.

-The Great Jack Handey

[This message has been edited by MgoBlue-LightSpecial (edited November 09, 2001).]

**MgoBlue-LightSpecial** · November 9th, 2001, 07:47 AM

I have to get some sleep, g'nite everyone, check back tomorrow...

afgan MMM

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If you ever drop your keys in a river of molten lava, forget it man, cuz they're gone.

-The Great Jack Handey

[This message has been edited by MgoBlue-LightSpecial (edited November 09, 2001).]

**Smackie Chan** · November 9th, 2001, 07:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mgo:
The inherent purpose of something isn't as relevant as its current purpose. Time can alter the use of something in ways unimaginable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I'll buy that, but you still only reinforce my argument. Have handguns ever had, or do you anticipate them ever having, a primary function other than killing people? Time hasn't altered its purpose.

But using your time argument against you, I contend that time has altered society in ways that the Founding Fathers couldn't have imagined, and that if they were drafting our Constitution and Bill of Rights during the 21st Century rather than in the 18th, they would not have included the Second Amendment.

What really pisses me off about this whole debate isn't so much those who disagree with me; at least you have a take, albeit one that sux. Opinion polls consistently show that a large majority of Americans believe as I do -- that we need tougher gun control laws.

But where are they? They sit back and keep their mouths shut while the vocal minority speaks out. By reading this thread, one would be led to believe that my views are representative of the dissenters, when in fact they are more reflective of the majority opinion. But most gun control advocates are passive, and therefore get trampled.

But someone's gotta speak with the voice of reason. Guess it's me.

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I moderate with hate

**Smackie Chan** · November 9th, 2001, 07:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Vainglorious One:

Paraphrasing..."He who gives up freedom for security ends up with neither."

Sincerely,
Ben Franklin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. But by banning handguns, I increase my freedom rather than limit it. I'm free to feel safe from accidental or intentional shootings. I'm free from having to worry about my children's safety at school. I'm free from worrying about if I need a gun to protect myself from others who have guns.

Ben was a smart dude.

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I moderate with hate

[This message has been edited by Smackie Chan (edited November 09, 2001).]

Thread: You can just go ahead and blame Pogue Mahone for t

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