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OV, what do you think that entire passage about Vandalf's mentor, the Leader of his Council, The Master of tracking down IP addys, and his spies having taken over the forest, not to mention everyone screaming "Shrubberman! Shruubberman The Wizard!" was all about, if not the introduction of Saruman The White?
Keep it up OV, and you're gonna be an orc! http://www.hostboard.com/forums/
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Didn't we know? Didn't we feel it?
Time, it seemed to stop outside our window...As we ran down the freeway, to be free.....of everthing...
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R.C., actually I'm not a Raiders fan, I'm a Dolphins fan. (Doesn't that suck?) If New England had gotten robbed the way the Raiders did I would've been on here with the same reaction.
As for the Lakers-Kings. Well. The simple fact that the Kings are even the other part of this discussion and people aren't falling over laughing should already be viewed as Huge News.
Remember? The Sacramento Kings? Dick Motta, Jerry Reynolds, Bill Russell, Reggie Theus, Duane Causwell, Olden Polynice, Lionel Simmons? Ritchmond goes for 30, to match the deficit by which the Kings lost that night?
The Lakers went 6-3 without Shaq? Well, I'd sure as hell like the Kings' chances in a series without Webber over the Lakers' chances without Shaq, so make sure to get Shaq good and laid come June, make sure he's out dancing on that bad foot every night, maybe slip him some extra pork rinds when he's at Fatburger on the way home.....
As for Bobby Jackson and running out of steam as a two guard, well, he backs up Bibby at the point, he's not a two. He'll be fine. The one thing he'll never lack is energy.
I haven't been all that impressed with Bibby, except by what he hasn't been doing to hurt the Kings in comparison to the guy he replaced. Then again, with their weapons that's all the Kings really need from the point, someone to not fuck it up. Bibby's sort of the Trent Dilfer of the Kings, with White Turnover having been the Elvis Grbac.
The twos are Christie and Turkoglu, with Turkoglu also doing time occasionally backing up Peja at three. Christie is the glue of the team. He does all the little things and he's a bastard on defense, and when he's hitting the Kings are unbeateable, even by the Lakers. Too many weapons.
The Kings did dictate the tempo against the Lakers in their last meeting, and that was without Webber.
I tend to agree with you about Webber, as do the people who sit near us at Arco. Their play is significantly uglier when he's in there. The ball movement which makes their offense unstoppable when it's clicking slows down considerably when they run it through Webber.
At least that was the initial impression, when he first came back and he was slow of foot. Lately, he seems to be moving the ball around a lot more and he's rounding into shape and he's becoming more and more able to push off on that recovering ankle.
He seems to have taken to heart the success the team had via ball movement while he was away.
Bottom line, nobody in Arco, on the Kings bench or throughout the NBA really thinks the Kings are better without him than with him, simple because of the leadership, rebounding, passing and 20+ points per night he provides. In short spurts, maybe, but not in the long run.
My beef with him is defense. Last year, down the stretch and in the playoffs, he played none. The other team's four torched the Kings all season, even cadavers like Cliff Robinson and Rodney Rogers.
Webber's talking nothing but defense this season, and obviously the Kings keep improving on defense, so maybe he and they are finally turning the corner in that regard. If so, it'll be them and the Lakers and whoever gets home court in the series will win it.....
That being the case, and looking at last year, and how close it was between L.A. and Sac at the end, it sure makes these late January Monday night doldrum match ups against Memphis very important....
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Didn't we know? Didn't we feel it?
Time, it seemed to stop outside our window...As we ran down the freeway, to be free.....of everthing...
[This message has been edited by Van [down by the river] (edited January 20, 2002).]
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R.C., this shit sure is fun.
I don't dislikeBibby. I'd take him over Fisher, obviously. He's an improvement over Williams. But he's not much on defense (just like Williams, just not quite that bad) and he seems to disappear for big stretches. When he's taking shots and hitting them (along with Christie) then the Kings are fuckall unbeatable.
I just wish the Kings could've somehow pried Nash out of Dallas rather than Bibby out of Vancouver.
Yet so often Bibby just seems to wander around doing very little, and he plays with so little fire. Everybody always seems to prefer the lift Jackson provides when he comes in, especially on defense and in just making a mess of things under the boards.
Webber is obviously the key. If he tanks again in the playoffs against the Lakers like he always does then this is all a moot point. He handles the ball too much and takes too many important shots for the Kings to be able to afford his usual vanishing act against the Lakers in the playoffs.
On the other hand, if he does finally light it up like an MVP candidate is supposed to against the Lakers and he then draws the help he needs to draw then Peja will assfuck you and the rules simply don't allow enough men on the floor to also guard Christie, Vlade and Bibby.
I do hate that it all hinges on someone like Webber, what with his history in the playoffs.
But hey, even Dave Winfield eventually did a little bit in the playoffs and won a ring, there's still hope for Webber to wake up yet...
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Didn't we know? Didn't we feel it?
Time, it seemed to stop outside our window...As we ran down the freeway, to be free.....of everthing...
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Take that shit to the NBA Forum!! http://www.hostboard.com/forums/
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Check out NBA Smack
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Yeah. Its pretty sweet to be able to break won b-ball again with knowledgable clones. Kinda makes me yearn for the old days of SC. http://www.hostboard.com/forums/ Havent checked out the NBA forum at the new SmackChat board. Probably not worth it though.
Its funny. Now that I think about it. The Lakers PG situation can be likened to the Kings situation in a lot of ways. Bibby is like Lindsey Hunter; highly-skilled, coordinated, good rhythym shooter, great passer in the open floor, but lacks the fire of a great competitor. And Jackson is like Fisher; scrappy, takes it to the hole and boards against guys 10x his size, hits clutch shots, takes charges, has balls the size of churchbells.
But..if given a 5 pt deficit late in the game for either the Lakes or the Kings, Im betting their respective fans would rather have Bibby & Hunter in the game over their counterparts. And That's what Im talkin about.
Its really sad that even the fans of his own team can be Webber's biggest detractors. It really isnt his fault. Well, now it is, after deciding to stay in Sacto. But still, dude just cant get over the fact that he's in a great team that's the only game in town. And the Kings fans & management have to have a bonified superstar position player to satisfy their egos and maybe keep the jerseys selling at Foot Locker. Its really very silly. You could swap Webber for a guy like Baron Davis(who Id cut my right arm off for if it meant the Lakes could get him), or any other assortment of lower-tier stars like McKie, Harrington, ONeal(Pacers), Nash & even a few throw ins like an Elden Campbell, Derek Coleman or somebody.
The door on that deal for the Kings has officially closed. Now their GM has to trade and swindle their way against other big name West teams who have more name-recognition, if not more money. So, there is a down side to winning consistently. Your charity rebuilding options(aka the Clippers), arent available. And after a while, if the Kings fail to secure the brass ring and keep coming in #2, somebody's gonna be calling for the Kings to throw the season and snatch a lottery ball to get over the hump against the Lakers.
Hell, it worked for the *Spurs*.
Hey Vito- Keep spamming the out of town boards for stragglers and eventually your board will look like this thread. Im still spamming the WOIA board. Those Spur faggots cant even pull the latest Kobe schlong out of their Hank Hill pieholes to even represent their flagging Spurs. Bunch a fairweather, shitkicken queers.
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Filthy,
I'm not dead. I'm on the beach drinking Jim Beam. Pay attention.
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This is just a blue pill. Lighten up.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van [down by the river]:
R.C., actually I'm not a Raiders fan, I'm a Dolphins fan. (Doesn't that suck?) If New England had gotten robbed the way the Raiders did I would've been on here with the same reaction.
My bad. I just assumed that since you are a NoCal, that you might have vested interest in the Sliver and Slack. The Dolphins were kewl. Loved them as a kid. Is Jabbar still playing for them? Or anybody? The only team who actually stood a chance of derailing the Niner dynasty before it even started. Unfortunately, they didnt get the bounces. And Marino didnt get the defense.
As for the Lakers-Kings. Well. The simple fact that the Kings are even the other part of this discussion and people aren't falling over laughing should already be viewed as Huge News.
I dont see why. Theyve been steadily improving since the Malufs took over. Its not their fault that the Lakers rose to prominence at the same time. Werent the Kings ahead of the Lakers at this same time last year?
Remember? The Sacramento Kings? Dick Motta, Jerry Reynolds, Bill Russell, Reggie Theus, Duane Causwell, Olden Polynice, Lionel Simmons? Ritchmond goes for 30, to match the deficit by which the Kings lost that night?
You forgot about LaSalle Thompson, Joe Kleine, Kenny Smith & the best prospect to ever waste his career on the Kings: Wayman Tisdale. Should have kept those old baby blue road unis though. Those were def as a lepperd.
The Lakers went 6-3 without Shaq? Well, I'd sure as hell like the Kings' chances in a series without Webber over the Lakers' chances without Shaq, so make sure to get Shaq good and laid come June, make sure he's out dancing on that bad foot every night, maybe slip him some extra pork rinds when he's at Fatburger on the way home.....
I ate at Fatburger in Westwood last nite actually. Gawked at the UCLA hotties while I macked a double fat w/cheese. Its ok to admit your jealousy. Right after hitting all the lame retro joints on Sunset. Hey! Ive got an idea! Ill start a DISCO dance club! Nobody's ever done it before! Cue the Gloria Gaynor & ABBA record
As for Bobby Jackson and running out of steam as a two guard, well, he backs up Bibby at the point, he's not a two. He'll be fine. The one thing he'll never lack is energy.
My mistake. He may be listed as a PG on the sheet. But the last time I saw that guy drop a dime instead of going to the hole or hoisting a quick jumper, was probably the last time Shaq hit both of his throws. Jackson's evergy may be high. But his FG% against the Lakers in big games is what helps Shaq & Horry pad their block totals.
I haven't been all that impressed with Bibby, except by what he hasn't been doing to hurt the Kings in comparison to the guy he replaced. Then again, with their weapons that's all the Kings really need from the point, someone to not fuck it up. Bibby's sort of the Trent Dilfer of the Kings, with White Turnover having been the Elvis Grbac.
Dude are you kidding? Id take Bibby over Fisher anyday of the week. And thats even with Fisher's playoff experience. I thought he had one of the lowest assist/turnovers in the whole league? Kick him down our way if you dont want him.
The twos are Christie and Turkoglu, with Turkoglu also doing time occasionally backing up Peja at three. Christie is the glue of the team. He does all the little things and he's a bastard on defense, and when he's hitting the Kings are unbeateable, even by the Lakers. Too many weapons.
Like I said, every Kings loss against the Lakers Ive seen, Christie is usually the goat. If he's not overplaying the passing lanes or getting roughed up by Kobe's fakes, he's taking ill-advised 3's and taking touches away from from your talented Slavic trio. Peja banking on Fox's aging legs is the key to your O. Along with Hedo doing his best impersonation of Novitzski. Of course, just when it looks like the Kings may be able to exploit the Peja/Fox matchup, along comes Devean George, who has springs like a demon and can keep up with the play even after getting beat off the dribble. If you think George & Fox arent being force fed videos of Peja's moves in the Laker war room, youre crazy.
The Kings did dictate the tempo against the Lakers in their last meeting, and that was without Webber.
If memory serves, the Lakers started picking up steam late in the 3rd, and proceeded to get crazy distance by the 2:00 warning. The Kings have to play 4 perfect quarters of basketball to beat the Lakers. The Lakers only have to play the last 2. Besides, the Lakers arent scared of Arco anymore. Arent they like 4-0 there recently? Of course, the Kings are closing the gap a bit at Staples. But most of the Lakers/Kings playoff showdowns in Arco last year were near blowouts. Dont think the Lakers plan to have that tradition interrupted.
I tend to agree with you about Webber, as do the people who sit near us at Arco. Their play is significantly uglier when he's in there. The ball movement which makes their offense unstoppable when it's clicking slows down considerably when they run it through Webber.
Dont get me wrong. I love Chris Webber. Shit, if he had stayed with Washington, think how good theyd be right now. Or even Golden State. Webber? Jameison? Richardson Hughes? That team would be at least good enough to make the playoffs, if not further. I just dont think CWebb is a good fit for any team that relies on transition offense and run-n-gun style play. Its a oxymoron. He didnt even run when he was on Run TMC.
At least that was the initial impression, when he first came back and he was slow of foot. Lately, he seems to be moving the ball around a lot more and he's rounding into shape and he's becoming more and more able to push off on that recovering ankle.
He seems to have taken to heart the success the team had via ball movement while he was away.
There's no stopping Webbers talent or mobility. Even when hurt, hes still more effective that 75% of the PFs in the league who are totally healthy. Dont know about that flat jumper though. Pretty fugly.
Bottom line, nobody in Arco, on the Kings bench or throughout the NBA really thinks the Kings are better without him than with him, simple because of the leadership, rebounding, passing and 20+ points per night he provides. In short spurts, maybe, but not in the long run.
Well trade him in for some good slashers, finishers, or a PG over 6'2, and the Kings become instant title contenders. With him, hes just the guy who gets pounded down low and goes 4 for 17 against the Lakers in the playoffs. You dont need a guy to do dirty work down low when your offense is predicated on movement. You dont even need offensive rebounding when your team FG% is higher than anybody elses.
My beef with him is defense. Last year, down the stretch and in the playoffs, he played none. The other team's four torched the Kings all season, even cadavers like Cliff Robinson and Rodney Rogers.
Get used to it Van. Thats the hallmark, priveledge, and right of every veteran superstar PF past & present. Malone slacks off. Duncan has been losing his defensive intensity comapred to 98-00. McDyess never plays defense anymore. Why should Webber be any different? You get the boom lowered on you by 290lb centers and clumsy shitcans like Vin Baker all game, and see how much leftover gumption for defense you have left. If Vlade & Pollard could do more than take pictures of Shaq while he steps on them, Webber might not have to sub in so often and tire himself at the other end.
Webber's talking nothing but defense this season, and obviously the Kings keep improving on defense, so maybe he and they are finally turning the corner in that regard. If so, it'll be them and the Lakers and whoever gets home court in the series will win it.....
Check the Lakers' defensive #'s this year. Especially against the 3 ball and perimeter FG%. Tee hee. http://www.hostboard.com/forums/
That being the case, and looking at last year, and how close it was between L.A. and Sac at the end, it sure makes these late January Monday night doldrum match ups against Memphis very important....
Yep. And nobody has lost more games against beatable teams than L.A. But, unfortunately for the rest of the West contenders, those last-place teams aint gonna make the playoffs. Kings need to play .750 basketball to keep pace with the Lakers once they stop sucking and get their personel rotated properly. If I were Kings fan, Id be more worried about what the Lakers havent done yet, than what they have.
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[This message has been edited by R.C. Collins (edited January 21, 2002).]
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Python, and don't you forget it! You owe me, big time. TWO huge, sacred traditions broken, just for YOU!! TWO!!!
Don't say I never did nuthin' for ya...Now that the precedent has been set, you are finally free to live to see the end of future SC dramas, though I doubt anyone else will find a way to let you live as large in eternity as I'm letting you...
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Didn't we know? Didn't we feel it?
Time, it seemed to stop outside our window...As we ran down the freeway, to be free.....of everthing...
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I'll name my first born after you.
Down By The River Jones
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This is just a blue pill. Lighten up.
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I'll RACK this thread for the simple reason that the response from IB has been minimal- all that reading must have gotten her lips exhausted.
Got any vicodin to spare, Van?
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IB, if you can't find a nice elevator shaft to fall into, maybe you could jump off a highway overpass instead.