All this talk about drag racing

[lundgren]

I hear a lot of people, especially of late talking about 1/4 mile times and trap speeds, wanting better times, better trap speeds.

Pardon my venting, but here's my take.

1: Front wheel drive cars don't make good drag race cars. Oh they can, but it's not a daily driver when your done.. well at least not tuned to daily driving.

2: Drag racing numbers are NOT good dyno numbers. 80% of drag racing is in the 1st 60 feet. It's all about the hookup, and that first shift into second. After that my grandma could drive it.

3: Reality? When on the street do you get to race someone, at a stop, with a light, totally even? Why is it some aspire to acheive drag strip times when for the street car, it's never a reality when racing.

4: Because it's all about the hook-up, why do people rate the performance of the car based on the hook-up. After all, with the exception of that hookup, I can beat many, many cars that normally would take me on the drag strip. I can take a civic, drop the clutch at 7,000 RPM with VERY sticky, VERY wide drag tires and get into the 14's, does it mean my car is fast? NO!

5: Have you drag racers autocrossed? You've got to try it! If you have and prefer drag racing, that's fine. Most though, I think haven't tried.

6: Finally, I've gone to the strip. It's fun... but not as fun as solo II, IMO. I drag race on occation because it's fun!..., but I don't take my times that serious because I know it's no dyno, and it's not reality, not at least for a street car like mine.

Had to vent.

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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page


[This message has been edited by lundgren (edited January 13, 2000).]

[Bryan-96'GSR]

Umm, your mistaken, just because a FR drive would beat a FF drive car, it doesn't mean drag racing for FF should be just ruled out, you have a very narrow view, 1/8 th and 1/4 th mile times not reality? where are you racing in your dreams? AutoX is fun, but not for me as drag racing isn't for you. Don't knock something when you know so very little about it and just cause you don't like it. I take offense to your post. I know many people with nice et's in the quarter mile that daily drive a FF drive car. What next? FR drive car not being a good drag race car because it wouldn't do as well as a very nice AWD car? oh get a clue.. It's a sport just like AutoX and has been around longer, if it was not enjoyable you would not see so many people in FF drive cars participating in it. Yep, sure does take a lot of money and time to maybe make a FF drive car/4 cyl. run but couple years ago and even now it takes a lot more to make a small block ford run as fast as a big block chevy. You don't see people not building fords do you? I'm sorry but your just full of it. I'm tired of people knocking Imports as drag race cars just because they don't think they could run as hard. Not very smart.

Just look at a 700 hp ford that many people might have, do you see them running insanely fast times in the quarter? Look at jotech they're running a 9.6 on 550 HP, RWD cars lose just as much traction as FWD cars when things start getting much faster. next year we will be seeing 8 second imports. FWD, you don't see very many RWD 8 second cars do you? not a very smart post if you ask me.

bryan

[lundgren]

No, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to offend. You see, I know that there are people who enjoy drag racing. I appologize if I sound like I'm knocking import drag racing, I'm a fan. If there are those who are offended please accept my apology, I'm not knocking the sport, just it's application and adoption to real day driving.

My post was directed to the translation of drag racing results to real driving performance. Which in my opinion cannot be made.

A drag race car is tuned much differently than a daily driver for performance, and that is more true with a FF car. I just see so many people that live and die by their ETA's, relating them to their cars daily drivability and are not focused on the beauty of imports... the drive, not the hookup.

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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page


[This message has been edited by lundgren (edited January 13, 2000).]

[revHIGH]

I love to drag and autocross... I actually like to antocross a little more, but I think there is one main reason why people always quote their drag times: Everyone can compare times with each other, were all on the same playing field (basicly). You cant compare autocross times on different tracks for obvious reasons.
That said, which of my #'s do you find more interesting:
Last autox: 1:31.4 sec on street tires.
or
Last drag: 13.9 @103 on street tires.

I think you see my point...

[This message has been edited by revHIGH (edited January 13, 2000).]

[lundgren]

You bring up a good point, and I agree... all things being equal. But I think they are not as comparable as you think. The only thing that is being compared is the ability of that driver and car to hookup good, and is not a true refection of the cars street performance. You really cannot compare the performance of two integra's, let say, only how each driver can drag race each car. It wouldn't really say that one car is a better performer though than another.

Of course all my statements are totally based on weather we are driving steeet cars that are taken to the track, or pure track cars.

[DefAcura]

"but I don't take my times that serious because I know it's no dyno, and it's not reality, not at least for a street car like mine."

IMO drag racing has much more pertinence to the real world meaning of "fast" than dyno numbers do.

The example of the Civic with grippy tires and a good launch hitting 14's and not being fast confuses me. Imagine this scenario:

Left lane is a JRSC GSR running 8 psi and putting down 230 hp to the wheels. Nice dyno sheet, should be fast.

He lines up against a stock automatic Civic DX with a 50 shot of NOS and some sticky tires.

The DX does a neutral drop and gets an awesome launch and starts spraying. The GSR spins in first, hits the revlimiter, spins 2nd, hits the revlimiter again. The whole time the Civic is slowly putting on distance.

The Civic ends up keeping the lead and getting a better ET, let's say low 15's. The GSR gets a better trap speed, but a mid 15 ET.

Who was quicker down the strip? Who is making by far the most hp?

My point is, dyno numbers are great for bench racing and bragging but that's it. When it comes down to it the only thing that shows who has the fastest car is a race. Be it on the track or the street.

I will agree that AutoXing looks very fun. IMO more fun than drag racing, but sadly there isn't much of an AutoX scene around here .

[gsr98]

what ever floats ur boat, do it. but lungren, then again, when do i street race through a bunch of cones?

[lundgren]

DefAcura: That's to bad that there isn't much autocross... you've got to try it.

What I meant by my statement was that a run down the drag strip doesn't say much about how the car performs on the street. I don't see many races with civics running 13 inch racing slicks. I also don't see a lot of races from a light, dead even from a stop races.

Street races don't even say how a car performs, but my point was I see all the time, someone says "Hey I got into the 14's" What they don't say is the dropped the cluctch with gum on the rims, at 7,000 RPM. The same car with street tires neck to neck with another car going 45, then hitting the gas may get killed. This isn't as true for autocrossed tuned cars, since the whole point of a drag race is hooking up. Once you do that the rest is just racing.

[gsr98]

I probably will try Auto X as soon as there's a chance, but seriously, I think some people that dragging for granted, they say all u do is step on the pedal. I mean, thats basically it, but its not that easy to get the perfect 60ft etc. if i was so, we'd all be hit times that the car & driver guys are hitting. and also to ur dyno is reality, Craig Paisley put it best when he said " the 1320 is my dyno." The ability to drive a car to its limits is what makes a car go fast, not just some number.

[lundgren]

gsr98: Your close, but that wasn't exactly what I was saying.

If someone tunes a car for autocross, it's made to to brake fast, handle well for a variety of situations, accelatate quick at any speed and in general be a well balanced car. This car, when not driving through codes will also perform very well on the street.

The drag race car that is also street legal, has been tuned to hook up well, but also has been tuned to drive fast in a straight line. How many street races, or general street driving environment involve racing from a standing stop, in a straight line. Not many where I live.

This is not a drag vs autocross statement, simply a statement about how a tuned drag race car does not equal good street car. Both sports have there place, but you cannot project a drag racing car as an ideal street car.

I spend a lot more time on the street than I do drag racing. I also spend much more time on the street than autocrossing. But at least the mods I make for the autocross course also benifit me on the street. Not all drag racing mods do.


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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page