~MIR??CLES~ do you believe?

[Leo the Lioness]

that still has nothing to do with believing in God........nice try but who's to say which religion is correct? are the Buddhists destined to Hell because they don't pray to Jesus? i find that hard to believe, and im not agnostic or atheist......i believe in God, and that was the original point.........my personal sins are just that.......PERSONAL

and speaking of the word "personal", Dafunks, i DID take it personally, because you used the word "respect" straight off in your response to my post......after i used that very word to say that i thought we did and should all respect each other.....that's fine with me that you dont believe in God, Funks, for whatever your reasons, im not going to burden you with all my reasons why i think you SHOULD.....i would hope i could get the same consideration in return

i can punch large holes in the things you said about "hate" and the Scriptures, but i'd be defeating the real point i've been trying to make....i'm laying off cuz i'd rather you take what you want from the Bible, not something i, or anyone else, shoved down your throat

im not going to argue with you about where my soul is going to spend eternity because that is between ME and my MAKER, whoever i choose to call my MAKER........we should feel free to post things in here without having to be attacked or expected to defend or account for our beliefs......at least not more than once!

it gets tiring to have to worry that every time the name God is mentioned in here, there's gonna be a freaking long-ass debate! maybe there should've been a separate topic called "Do You Believe in God?", cuz then it would be expected and maybe i wouldnt have gone there.....but as far as i know, there wasnt......it's turned into that in two separate Topic thingies though, hasnt it?

well not anymore, like i said, im not going to try and change your belief, or your non-belief, and you can go ahead and criticize how i personally practice my "religion".......whatever state it's in......but i sure as hell hope we wont have to keep bucking heads over this issue every time the name comes up. i'd rather keep the friendship pleasant, but i find it really hard to do with someone who refuses to let sleeping dogs lie when it comes to something so very personal.......AGREE TO DISAGREE......and leave it at that! what's so difficult about it? if we both end up in Hell, fine, then you can say "i told you so".......but until then, quit judging and belittling me, cuz i refuse to argue point for point about this topic.......it's been beaten to death


PS - you're talking to the "real deal" religious fanatics who live by each and every word every minute of their lives, and not just me? HA! how many of them come to places like this, huh? i defy you to find one among the chat regs who come to post on this board, who all met in an adult sex chatsite who meets your criteria....then tell me who you're addressing that to

[Leo the Lioness]

*hugs Coke Cans*

i think just the fact that you haven't given up looking is a good sign........here's hoping it comes to you, whatever it is

[T-rex]

well.. heres my 2 cents =)

i could go both ways with this topic.. although i do believe in god, i will look at it from both ways =)

when u sit back and look at the brilliance of this planet.. as far as nature, animals, and how everything lives off of everything else.. is brilliant.. i dont believe that all this just "happened" .. where did the universe come from?? it all had to start somewhere.. and i would think that someone or something HAD to have created it.. like i said i do believe in god, but i dont make it my life and let it determine everything i do.. i dont go to church, but i do pray sometimes.. i asked him to send me my true love.. that i was sick of "playing the field" .. and now i have wendee.. the best thing that has ever happened to me.. but on the other hand...


praying is the same as finding a 4 leaf clover or flipping a coin.. 50/50 chance.. ya know?? i mean yeah u pray for something and u get it.. but would u have still got it if u didnt pray and ask for it? of course u would never know.. and i do agree fully with dafunks.. in the sense that running your entire life by a book is just plain stupid.. i have my own mind and i do what i want.. if god is there and he is forgiving, he will forgive me if i ask and ill be in heaven.. if not.. guess im goin to hell right? i mean... (now im goin on my anti god rant.. i used to be a non believer.. but theres still alot that dont make sense.. might as well throw my old opinions in to huh *L*) ... religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky.. and he has this list of 10 things he does not want you to do (all 10 of them going against the instincts given to you).. and if u do them.. he has this place of fire and torture and pain and suffering which he will put you to burn and suffer and cry and hurt... but he loves you?? what the fuck is that shit?? i mean look at this world.. u got racism, murder, rape, crime, poverty, homelessness, diseases, starvation... this does not belong on the resume of a supreme being.. it belongs on the resume of a busniess rep with a bad additude.. if this is the best he can do, i am not impressed.. in any decently run universe, this guy woulda been out on his all powerful ass by now.. all the bible is .. is hate and genocide directed to people who dont believe and follow.. to strike enough fear into people that they will cower to it all and live by it.. if god is good, he is not god.. i guess i believe he is there.. but i dont understand why he would make all of us suffer for no reason.. humans.. are pathetic.. they really are.. r we really the product of a god?? we have so many flaws.. ALL of them punishable by the 10 commandments.. so is our existance just one big chess game for him??

theres alot i dont understand.. but ive seen some shit in the last year thats made me think twice about his existance.. and ive believed ever since.. but i dont agree with alot of his ways.. but i do know he has helped me through alot of shit... and i would think if he was there, the thing that would hurt the most would be to deny he is even there.. *shrugs* like i said i can goeither way LOL

[Sniffer]

hmmmm.... T? did you just say you could go either way??? he he he!

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Sniff.... Sniff.... Do I Smell a sense of humor??

[T-rex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Times New Roman">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sniffer:
hmmmm.... T? did you just say you could go either way??? he he he!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

damnit sniff... just for that im taking your fondling privledges away for 1 week *G*

[Sniffer]

OOOOOOHHHHHHHH NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! NOT MY FONDLING PRIVILEDGES!!!! *throwing myself on the floor... kicking and screaming* what have i done?????
he he he!

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Sniff.... Sniff.... Do I Smell a sense of humor??

[Coke Cans]

I have often said I do not believe in god. I am not really sure WHAT I believe... I just know the answers I've seen in the church seems so... vauge.

When I was 13 or 14 (can't remember which) I wore a silver cuisifx around my neck. My grandfather was ill at that time... A strong believer in god. He told me. When he got to heaven... he'd somehow let me know.

The day and hour he died. My crusifix broke. I never wore it again. To the believer.... they say he let me know he was in heaven. To the non believer... it was a conincidence.

To me... it just happened. I do not believe in god.. but I DO believe in angels... or friends of the soul I call them.... who come along at just the right time.... and seem to create emotional miricles... they give you back the strength you need to survive. They give you a sense of hope... And they restore to you... a love for life.

Between the ages of 8 and 13 I lived in total hell. My father and brother were abusive to me. I got hit, was denied sleep, food and sometimes fresh air. Emotionally I was robbed of any sense of self worth or the ability to accept the idea that I was worth any sort of love or happiness.... I ask you... where was god then? If you say to me... you did not believe in him... so he did not help you... that is bullshit... at that point in my life..... I believed in love and god with no question.... I cried out to the jesus man I saw in the stainglass walls of the church nearest my house.... come and save me.... And there was no answer.

To the non believer... that is proof that god does not exhist... to the believer.. their explinations vary. Some say I did not believe enough. Some say it was God's Will and that those things were meant to make me a better person.

My answer to them is quite simple... FUCK THAT!!! I did not ask to have that sort of thing done to me so that I could be a good person. I don't even now feel I AM a good person. The fact that I have friends and loved ones who LOVE me to this day still shocks me. I have come to terms with those events and have realized I don't massively suck as I have always thought... but all the same... those sorts of events are horrible... going on at that time were other factors.. that a kid should not have to face.. like my family being poor and me often going hungry.... I still remember my mom talking to me and telling me to eat alot at school because she didn't know if we had enough money for me to eat when I got home....

When I did actually go to school I was so painfully shy and because of the abuse that I went through.... I didn't really think anyone would want to be my friend.... so I never talked to anyone.. and because of that.. I got labeled a snob (Ironic eh?) and became an outcast... which would have been okay... (I could have delt with that) but the kids choose that I would be the one that they picked on every single day... all day long.. until I was in tears.

My childhood was hell to say the least and as I grew into my teenage years it didn't get any better... and only got worse. Where was god then??

If those things were meant to give me a sense of being grateful for what I have... and a sense of compassion for others that is so deeply ingrained I am often called a mother type person by my friends... well then it was successful.. but at what cost??

And how is it fair?? I don't think I could ever be okay in NOT asking... Why? Why me? My experiences have made me a decent writer more intune with my own emotions... But I have seen and felt so many ugly things... I see it at too high a price for the gifts I've been given.

A part of me.. deep inside... in my heart.... loves who I think god is... but my mind is not so easily convinced. I guess my biggest statement about religion and faith can be summed up in one sentence.... "I still haven't found what I'm looking for..."



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"I will never say I am sorry, I will never say I am wrong, because I know the one that truly frees me, no other love could ever be this strong...."- Revolution by Shaded Red

[Më£ïñÐa]

*tears n hugs*
4 CokeCans
ThankYou for your story hun...s*

[Leo the Lioness]

very well-put T......you have a lot of the same questions i think most of us have or have had

about the evil in the world? my personal feeling is that we were put here and are tested daily.....given free will, to do either good or evil, and the instincts we have make the test even harder.......ever notice that the best things in life are worth working for? i sort of see it that way, that Heaven, or Paradise, or whatever you want to call it, is something you work towards every day of your life, if you live it in Love and not Hate.......i see Jesus's story - his "cross to bear" - as an example for the rest of us.......you've heard that expression, right? ("everyone has their own cross to bear").....i think it's what you do with it that adds to how you're judged when God finally says........."OK, everybody put down your pens and pencils, the test is now over, turn in your papers!"....... ........'course this is just my opinion, but this way of thinking helps me cope with the evil shit that exists in the world, and have faith that we may never find out the reason for it until AFTER we're dead and our spirits are wherever they go.......to me that would be before God Himself, and i like to think He's a loving God, since i've been given a life with a lot of people you could easily call Angels on Earth.....prime examples of the power of Love........and i agree when you say that we humans are pathetic and small......compared to such a Being who can create all we see around us? definitely

it boggles my mind the duplicity you can find in lots of things.....like, on the one hand, we're small and insignificant in the universe and the grand scheme of things, tiny specks of sand on the beach of life, right? yet at the same time, look at how we affect one another and what's around us........Man has managed to wipe out a lot of the Earth as God had originally made it, like the rainforest and the ozone, animal extinction.....also, some of the tiniest, simplest things we do or say can have the ability to change the course of the life of someone else forever......sometimes just the way someone is BORN is enough to alter the lives around them, for instance, a child with disabilities, who needs more care than other children, whose mere existence has the ability to teach love, compassion, acceptance, patience, humility and a range of other life lessons, perhaps more than most children.....meanwhile, one tidal wave or major earthquake and we're gone like little ants under a shoe .......our influence is both weak and strong at once.........chew on that for a while *G

other religions and philosophies talk about "what comes around, goes around".......kharma.....i've been shown a lot of examples of that, big and small, in my lifetime, too......you reap what you sew......if you choose to sin and do evil, even though those are our "instincts" as humans, and you have a sense of right from wrong, but choose to do wrong anyway? then you deserve the same back......likewise for love.......people like my aunt, who, throughout their entire lives have been more of a giver than a taker......have the richest souls and are the most-loved by those around them than anyone i know......in between you have a huge range.....and the God that i believe in forgives flaws......as long as they're not pre-meditated, like, sin first, answer for them later and just sort of shrug and say "oops, sorry" *L

we may not know the reasons for our lives and the world and the things in it until after it's all over......so that's why i dont question it TOO much.....there are plenty of things too advanced for human minds to grasp.....faith allows me to put off worrying over it until i'm given the answers i need

anyway, as i said, faith and belief are so personal and so different from one person to another.....it's interesting to hear what people think and feel on the topic as well as the things they've experienced......but in terms of Miracles, as this topic is called? every one of you guys, to me, are nothing short of that.......*hugs you*


damn, but im long-winded

[Leo the Lioness]

at Mel's request..........*G


Sweet wonderful you,
You make me happy with the things you do Oh, can it be so,
This feeling follows me wherever I go.

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try.
I never did believe in the ways of magic,
But I'm beginning to wonder why.

Don't, don't break the spell,
It would be different and you know it will,
You, you make loving fun,
And I don't have to tell you you're the only one.

youuuuuu.....you make loving fun.
youuuuuu.....you make loving fun.