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April 10th, 2005, 06:16 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi from Ireland fellow drummers!

My name's Tim. I've been scouring various online drum boards for a while and reckon this is the most insightful so I thought I would join up. I wont be posting any .wmv clips of myself... just yet.

By way of introduction: I've been playing for about 17yrs. I've just turned 33 and decided a while back to really focus full-time on getting my technique together. (I spent the last few yrs as a new media designer). VC and DW are both influences. I am currently working through New Breed II (ouch!) and alot of moeller / gladstone hand stuff (swapped to trad grip 3 yrs ago - loved the vid Steve ; )

I also love Brazilian music and was wondering whether any fellow forum members are familiar with this style (Partido Alto etc...) and can recommend recordings or even example rhythms as applied to the drum-set...

Hopefully you guys will be able to inspire me to keep practicing... The scene in Belfast is pretty poor, though I spent the last ten odd years in London and was taught in the early nineties by a great london-based teacher called Bob Armstrong, I'm sure some of you are familiar with him.

In terms of trading does anyone here transcribe Vinnie? Interested in sharing? Also to draw parallels from my design experience I have been mulling over the idea of "collaborative transcription" ie: take a vinnie tune - City Nights, Holdsworth anyone? ; ) - and a few of us could take a minute / 30 secs each (with a common agreement on drum legend) and then post the finished product.. would be very useful for people. (though I realise the time commitment).

Also, how about a thread dedicated to the real intricacies of Vinnie's polyrhythm - metric modulation stuff.. ways of approaching it? counting? stickings? applications?

Peace,

Tim.
April 10th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Klemme

Welcome Tim! Business down in Belfast? I've allways thought those Irish were great songwriters!

Concerning the thought about deciphering Vinnie's secret code, all I gotta say that we probably Gave up! [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] J/K
April 10th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Suspiria

Welcome Tim!
Glad you found your way to the HOD messageboard. I am sure you'll find this is the best board around. And as for keeping you inspired, that shouldn't be a problem. The vibe here has made it my single-most important source of inspiration!

Nice new avatar Klemme [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

[ April 10, 2005 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]
April 10th, 2005, 07:52 PM
troutbrooke

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim_Wilson:
Also, how about a thread dedicated to the real intricacies of Vinnie's polyrhythm - metric modulation stuff.. ways of approaching it? counting? stickings? applications?

Here's some info from the man himself....
April 10th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Klemme

Quote:

Originally posted by Suspiria:

Nice new avatar Klemme [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

[ April 10, 2005 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]

Haha thanks Suspira! [img]smile.gif[/img] Followed Steves/Pete C's footsteps an put up a RL pic instead of something else. Famous Danish-Jazz Photographer; Gorm Valentin did the Photo session.

www.jivers.dk ( All in Danish :S )

Sorry for a hijack here [img]smile.gif[/img]

Welcome again TIM!
April 10th, 2005, 08:45 PM
ladanny

Welcome to HOD Tim,

There are a few acomplished transcribers on this board, including Mark Atkinson. Mark wrote the Unreel Vinnie book.

Danny
April 11th, 2005, 02:13 PM
tgw_mobile

Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

This forum rules and rocks in odd and linear times together!

DSOP: Cheers dude. The audio examples there are fantastic. he really takes them out the second time round. Nice one!

Joes Mechanic: "That's HUGE!!!" (in Dom's voice)

I've got the Weckl / Reyes vids. very useful.
Airto is a brilliant player and great guy. Have seen / met him many times at Ronnie Scotts, London. I agree with Marc's Unreel exercises. Some of those Ostinato's are wild. I love the idea of taking a simple groove and moving it through the scale.. unlimited possibilities. I had only every gone to 12's before Marc (a la Master Studies, the great Joe Morello's book). those last few rates really test you, especially with flam and paradiddles... brilliant concept (a mix of Chaffee and Morello to my mind)...

I will grab Alex Acuna's vid... loved him on the old Zildjian day vid with that sexy dancer ; )

Hi Ladanny, cheers for letting me know Marc is on here.. his transcriptions in the Unreel book are brilliantly accurate. I'd love to know what set-up he uses for transcribing (audio software etc...) If you read this Marc, let me know.. we can swap 'keep it greasy' transcriptions ; )

Klemme: i agree his stuff is hard but I am a sucker for a challenge. I found two old books of my transcriptions the other day (from around 1990)... I think I must have been nuts back then (all of Weckl's Got A Match!) - Nuts!

Suspiria: Agreed, this forum is brilliant. I've been reading the old archive posts... Steve you could publish this stuff... its a real gem for drummers man. (ps: steve love yr Blushda and Weckl rllffrlff vids... plus the trad grip one is a gas)

Speak soon,

ps: I'm waiting for my new Sibelius software to arrive (awesome for transcribing) when I get it running I will post some of my weird and wonderful exercises for you all...

Tim.
April 11th, 2005, 03:44 PM
JoesMechanic

Hey Tim!!!

WELCOME WELCOME WELCOME!!! (in the voice of Dom Famularo) [img]wink.gif[/img]

DSOP.... that was a good link to direct him to. Pretty much nailed what he was looking for. As well as LA Dannys suggestion of Mark Atkinsons book. The excercises in those 1st 20 pages will fry your brain, especially if you can incorporate that "phase shifting, note displacment" stuff in grooves and around the kit/different limbs.

The only true "Brazillian" stuff I know of is Aierto and Flora Purim. But I think if you were to concentrate on Latin based grooves, you'd pretty much be able to give whatever latin music you're playing what it needs regardless of the "style". That pretty much is the "Vinnie" approach. Learn them all, and come up with your own variations.

A couple of good videos I own are the Weckl and Walfredo Reyes series on latin music/grooves. Also........ the Alex Acuna video. He covers every dammed latin groove known to man!! And he puts his "authentic" latin feel to it.

Hope that helps!!
April 13th, 2005, 10:06 PM
r_navega

Hi Tim,

Quote:

I've been scouring various online drum boards for a while and reckon this is the most insightful

I agree with you! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Quote:

VC and DW are both influences. I am currently working through New Breed II (ouch!) and alot of moeller / gladstone hand stuff (swapped to trad grip 3 yrs ago - loved the vid Steve ; )

I think you have Gary Chaffee's 'Patterns' books but, if not, I highly recommend them. Many Vinnie ideas come from Chaffee concepts and exercises.

Quote:

I also love Brazilian music and was wondering whether any fellow forum members are familiar with this style (Partido Alto etc...) and can recommend recordings or even example rhythms as applied to the drum-set...

I'm a Brazilian but, as a matter of fact, I play rock and jazz better than Brazilian music, it's a shame! [img]redface.gif[/img] However, some years ago I decided to study Brazilian music more seriously and I've been discovering some gems of Brazilian jazz. So, I have some suggestions for you and other HODers interested in Brazilian music [img]graemlins/smarty.gif[/img]

1. Hermeto Pascoal (Nen? and M?rcio Bahia on drums) -'Festa dos Deuses' (my favorite), 'Hermeto Pascoal e Grupo', 'Mundo Verde Esperan?a', 'Montreux Jazz Festival', 'S? N?o Toca Quem N?o Quer' etc. Hermeto is a true genius, his complex and very criative compositions include many different Brazilian rhythms, such as samba, bai?o, maracatu, frevo, chorinho etc.
2. Trio da Paz (Duduka da Fonseca on drums) - 'Brazil from Inside', 'Black Orpheus' (They recorded more two or three albums, all of them released in USA).
3. Paquito D'Rivera - 'Why Not' (an out-of-print recording that features a great samba played by Portinho, 'Samba for Carmen'), 'Live at the Blue Note' (Mark Walker on drums). Mark plays samba like a Brazilian and has a superb technique.
4. S?rgio Brand?o (Portinho and Steve Langone on drums) -'Brazilian Landscapes' - Portinho is one of the most musical Brazilian drummers.
5. Siz?o Machado (Edu Ribeiro and others on drums) -'Quinto Elemento' - Edu Ribeiro is one of best samba-jazz drummers of the new generation, with a clean execution and tasteful grooves.
6. Edison Machado - 'Edison Machado ? Samba Novo' - Edison was the first person to use cymbals in samba grooves. He was very adventurous and, for this reason, his playing was sometimes sloppy but, at the same time, very exciting. He is one of the creators of 'free samba', where you improvise with all limbs.
7. Quarteto Livre (Tutty Moreno on drums) - 'Pra Que Mentir?' - Tutty is one of modern representatives of free samba.
8. J. T. Meirelles - 'Samba Jazz!' (Robertinho Silva on drums) - Robertinho is a living legend of Brazilian music. He played many years with Milton Nascimento.
9. Edu Ribeiro & Daniel D'Alcantara - 'Horizonte' (Edu Ribeiro on drums) - a great samba-jazz album recorded released one or two years ago.
10. Brasilia - 'River Wide' (Ted Moore on drums) - a beautiful Brazilian jazz album. Ted is American who has a genuine feel for Brazilian music.
11. Duduka da Fonseca - 'Samba Jazz Fantasia' - this album was nominated to Grammy. Duduka is very influenced by Edison Machado and wrote a very good book called 'Brazilian Rhythms for Drumset?, a must-have one for those interested in Brazilian music.
12. Airto Moreira - maybe the most known Brazilian drummer and percussionist. You should check out his solo stuff or his albums with Return to Forever.
13. Ramon Montanhaur - 'Boyya' - he is another young samba-jazz drummer. Ramon uses multi-pedals for playing incredibly challenging Brazilian grooves.
14. Trio Curupira - 'Desinventado' - this very young group is very influenced by Hermeto Pascoal, with very complex arrangements.
15. Victor Biglione - 'Maquette Brazil' (Maguinho Alcantara, Ivan Conti 'Mam?o' and Andr? Tandetta on drums) - Victor is a guitar player who blends jazz fusion and Brazilian music.

Other great Brazilian drummers: Dom Um Rom?o, Xande Figueiredo, Adriano Trindade, Pascoal Meirelles, Paulo Braga, Cuca Teixeira, Kiko Freitas, Jurim Moreira, Chico Medori etc...

Quote:

I have been mulling over the idea of "collaborative transcription" ie: take a vinnie tune - City Nights, Holdsworth anyone? ; ) - and a few of us could take a minute / 30 secs each (with a common agreement on drum legend) and then post the finished product.. would be very useful for people. (though I realise the time commitment).

I think you idea is great but, at the moment, I can't help you because I've been incredibly busy (I've been playing and practicing less than I'd like [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] ). Anyway, I included some transcriptions:

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/425d1522...XfaXCB8Gu.7Q6o

I don't know if my transcriptions are completely accurate, I'd have to review them (I'm especially lazy about recognizing high, mid and low toms!). But, at least, you'll have good exercises to practice.

Quote:

ps: I'm waiting for my new Sibelius software to arrive (awesome for transcribing) when I get it running I will post some of my weird and wonderful exercises for you all...

Tim.

They would be very appreciated!
April 13th, 2005, 11:02 PM
tgw_mobile

Navega:

voc? ? um homem da estrela... que este ? justo o que eu procurava!! agradecimentos muito muito muito!

(not sure if this will work... used a pretty poor translation tool... my Portuguese is poor, even though I dated a girl from Rio for 2 years!)

Good news on the software front.. it has arrived. I am transferring old exercises and writing up new ones tonight, so expect a few exercises posted (as .jpgs) within 24 hrs.

I will start with some nice foundational exercises, that help when it comes to 'Vinnyisms'...

Great to meet a Brazilian on here. Brazilian's and Irish get on very well, IMO. I have a bunch of Brazilian friends in London... they are really special people.... and brazilian women... OMG!

Take care,

Tim

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