Tough Jobs

This is a time that is tough for miners. A dozen of us are gone, and even if we don't know'em it is still the same feeling if you think about it for a while. I'm sure we will get some new regs, and don't mis-understand this, I'm as safe as I can make my work, but our people will make the folks that work in this country pay SS and a match tax, us enough for "freebies" -and we all get the feeling that many are deserved, but some are not, The US will make us compete with China for a market share and them killing 6000 miners a year, never look to see if we should level the playing field. Same deal for a lot of the better paying jobs that gone have from this country, maybe I should have put this under "something that bugs me", but even the folks that educate our kids don't start out setting the world aflame, moneywise. Big oil gets 500 billion to look for oil, VA gets "0" to train new miners. Screw the politicans and the media, this is why I hate the media and politics. And the guys(Sago miners) wrote notes to their families as they died so they would know they didn't suffer, and could say good bye, I'm beginning to think somebody should have done like "South Moutain" and banned the reporters , till they were ready to talk to them. Free press is good , stupid press is not.

Have to say i agree ole buddy. I heard the news myself when i got up to go to work about the miners.
I went to bed happy. Thinking man what a miracle. To get up to news that there had been a drastic mistake in information.
Drastic is not the word for it when it is your dad, brother, uncle, cousin, son etc. that you was hoping to see again soon.
Those who defied the odds and made it. To find out they didn't. I to hate politics, don't care much for the media, think they honestly have to much freedom any more.
They will tell you ever move we are planning as far as our countries defense efforts in war time. To how to build a bomb.
Yeah we are to be a free country. Well it depends though on what you want as a freedom.
The right to burn the flag and nothing is to be said. The right to demonstrate about anything. The right to take others rights away, well if you have the backing and the money.
Just don't mention saying a prayer or the Ten Commandments, cause you don't have the right.
Oh and don't think about wishing anyone a Merry Christmas. That is even being taken away.
We have to be politically correct any more.
And man if it ain't ruining this country. I can see being a person and using manners and respect.
Yeah man were going forward. Companies keep going to countries for cheap labor, killing our economy here and no one working, and keep up importing more. Why not double tax those who do such things.
Yeah man were moving forward. Are we?

These men. They didn't suffer as they died of CO2 poisioning.
I hope their lives got some rich mine owner or company enough money, to take care of their families from now till the last one is gone.
And to take care of these men who perished in that mine enough money to take care of all their family members till the last one is gone.
It's a job it's dangerous. But over 200 plus violations? Not acceptable to ask a man to work in. When it's already a dangerous enough job.

In defense of the company, weren't most of these from the previous owner, and had been fixed? At least they had had a recent review, and showed a lot of the violations were corrected, and had passed inspection, at least I thought was reported.

Also, isn't this a truly freak accident, and not as much of a violations accident? I mean if lightning someone struck into the old abandoned portion of the mine. Has anyone ever heard of something like this happening in mining befoe?

In defense of the company or new owner. There was violation that were still violations.
I would honestly not believe in a lightning strike myself. Possible but higly unlikely.
Those in mining know that would have to be one freak of nature accident. Which would cover whom?
The company?
Think about it. Why were these men working in this mines? If the previous violations had not been taken care of.
I mean you know since the new and current owner cared so much.
Did this company care? If so what had they done. Besides help add to the confusion and the media mess.
Yeah some company.
I want to see what the full investigation brings. And why a blast if there was no harmful or large amounts of gases at any state?

I agree that lightning has to be a frickin one in a billion thing, but what could have caused the explosion of this type. If it was behind a sealed/abandoned area, it would not have been the fault of the owners, or the fire boss would it? How was anyone to know that anything other than black dant(or whatever it is called) would have been behind that wall?

I normally do not stand behind the corporate man, but I think this company should come out a little cleaner than what most would in this situation.

They didn't truly add to the media mess, and confusion. Yes, they should have went to the church about 1 AM to say wait we have other information we are trying to determine, but at least they were trying to wait until they got the facts one way or the other.

I would doubt that there is a mine anywhere with a perfect record of inspection. We would have to close down the entire coal industry to work in those of perfect working conditions. Of course we do not know how severe those violations were either.

I don't know guys and not trying to be a smart aleck. I just hate to hear of any one dying and especially in a coal mining accident.
Biggest thing i think is it goes back to my uncles and cousins working in the coal mines.
Never understood why my grandmother use to always make supper so early till i begin to notice a trend.
As they would leave the mines headed home, they all would come by her house, just to check on her cause she was getting up in years.
Well she was also checking on them she always had them someting to eat waiting on them when they dropped by, it was her way of accounting for all her youngins later as we found out.
To make sure they had a hot meal at least once a day. My uncles were married so i know they were well taken care of as far as food etc. But still they come by to take the worry off grandma. The cousins well it was a habit for them till they got older and married and stuff. But they still come by to. Sometimes some things make you think back on things more than others and stir up old thoughts.
They were good thoughts though. That she worried about them all, and bascially did her own head count to make sure they all were out at the end of their shift. Safe and headed home and with a full stomach if they wanted it. They thought they were just checking on an old lady with a big heart, while in fact she was seeing that her boys as she called us all, well that they were all ok.

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I don't know guys and not trying to be a smart aleck. I just hate to hear of any one dying and especially in a coal mining accident.


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I know man. My father-in-law works in the mines, and have had family there also, and it worries me as well.

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They were good thoughts though. That she worried about them all, and bascially did her own head count to make sure they all were out at the end of their shift. Safe and headed home and with a full stomach if they wanted it. They thought they were just checking on an old lady with a big heart, while in fact she was seeing that her boys as she called us all, well that they were all ok.


[/ QUOTE ] Big Dawgs and little Dawgs, some older ladies are the tough ones , jump them and see. Makes ya smile to think back and see who was checking on who , doesn't LPDFTBL? The bottom line about this explosion is gonna be , someone made a mistake, more than likely more than one- the companies are no better than their people. Several explosions have been traced to ventilation being short circuted by a piece of "curtain" being left down. Just a 5 minute job that cost lives, McClure and Scotia both had air re-routed by ventilation curtain being moved for a machine or torn down to make it easier to walk thru, and not put back. In both cases , in a short while a cinder block stopping would have been put in place , or other changes made to make the controls better, after they had time to do so, but they never got time. It is hard to call out and tell'em , "Look, I ain't loading coal, I had to shut down and put up longer roof bolts, the place is working," or "I had to work on my air" and the foreman that does is the odd man out sometimes , cause his co-workers just don't want to rock the boat. But that is part of being a foreman. Ya get used to making the upper levels seasick, they'll be OK. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Hatfield used to be the VP for Arch Coal's Eastern region. He ain't a bad guy, but he didn't really get into the day-to-day stuff enough to really know what was going on.

Here is a clip from an article from MSN and it talks about the meddling that Bush has done with MSHA, the folks he moved out to make the agency more friendly- MSHA's first leader under President Bush, David D. Lauriski, was a former coal industry executive who advocated a less confrontational style and gave inspectors a less-intimidating job title: "compliance assistance specialists."

Under Bush, 17 of 26 regulations proposed by the Clinton administration were dropped or withdrawn, and the agency began a series of high-profile "cooperative alliance" agreements with industry to promote safety through education, posters and other voluntary programs. Bush-appointed officials leaders say they withdrew the Clinton proposals to pursue their own regulatory agenda.

Many records sealed from public
The agency eliminated or scaled back programs favored by unions and watchdog groups that allowed public access to records related to safety performance and accident investigations. For example, MSHA halted the release of notes from mine inspections, which the agency had routinely released under the Freedom of Information Act for a quarter-century. It also shifted many routine accident investigations into closed-door proceedings, in some cases denying entry even to union officials and lawyers representing injured mineworkers, say union officials and former agency employees.

Joseph Main, a retired UMW health and safety official, said he worried that MSHA's investigation of the Sago accident would focus only on the source of the initial explosion -- instead of seeking answers to the broader questions about mine safety.

"The explosion is just one piece of it," Main said. "They should investigate all the factors that led to the deaths of these men, including the failure of the safety net that was supposed to be in place. If those other questions aren't answered, we will have more Sagos in the future."

Sago story I guess sometimes if you don't know what you are doing, you had best leave things alone. Makes me wonder if Regan had left the safeguards the Union Air Traffic Controllers had in place, if the folks could have prevented the 9/11/01 crashes? Reagan really increased the workload and reduced the breaks the controllers got- the number of flights and the amount of sky each was responsible for was part of the argument.