Reading this article...

Why in the world do people actually think this? It's ridiculous. It's sad, I hear it all the time when we discuss different issues in sociology...this ridiculous argument always comes up when gay marriage comes up, why? What would give anyone these notions to think that?




SAN FRANCISCO - Lawyers for two same-sex couples challenging the constitutionality of California's ban on same-sex marriage rested their case Monday after showing videotape of a simulcast in which supporters of the ban said gay marriage would lead to polygamy and bestiality.

The footage was shown as an example of the work of San Diego pastor Jim Garlow, who helped organize evangelical Christian support for the Proposition 8 ballot measure in 2008.

In one video rally led by Garlow, an unidentified pastor warned "the polygamists are waiting in the wings, because if a man can marry a man and a woman can marry a woman, the polygamists are going to use that exact same argument and they probably are going to win."


An unidentified woman later said "a man wanting to marry a horse, brothers and sisters, any combination would have to be allowed."

It appeared the lawyers were introducing the material to demonstrate the campaign for the ban appealed to religious-based, anti-gay bias to scare voters into supporting the measure.

The trial is the first in a federal court to examine if states violate the U.S. Constitution by preventing same-sex couples from marrying.

Proposition 8 sponsors objected to the video, saying the content of the simulcast was not controlled by campaign managers or leaders.

However, Chief U.S. Judge Vaughn Walker allowed the material to be put into the record because the coalition of religious and conservative groups behind Proposition 8 paid for Garlow's work.

9/11 comparison
In the six-minutes of footage shown for Walker, various people opined on the negative consequences of legalizing gay marriage. One unidentified speaker compared the potential social impact of "this social reengineering of marriage" to the way the 9/11 terrorist attacks made the world "a fundamentally different place."

The clips also included people saying that once same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts, public schools stocked picture books that included gay couples as an example of different types of families.

"If same-sex marriage is legalized, then it must be taught as normal, acceptable and moral behavior in every single public school," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council.

The plaintiffs also introduced clips from promotional videos produced by other groups for distribution to churches during the Proposition 8 campaign.

In one, produced by the American Family Council in Mississippi, the chairman of the California campaign, Ron Prentice, spoke against same-sex couples raising children.

"Children need and deserve the chance to have both mother love and father love," Prentice said.

Men and women "don't bring to a marriage and a family the same natural set of skills and talents." he said.

Nine days in presenting case
The lawyers for the plaintiffs rested their case after spending more than nine days presenting evidence on the meaning of marriage, the nature of sexual orientation, and the role of religion in shaping attitudes about both.

Prominent litigators Theodore Olson and David Boies asserted that Proposition 8 was a product of anti-gay bias without justification.

Lawyers for Proposition 8 sponsors called their first witness, a Claremont College political scientist.

Nicole Moss, another lawyer for those sponsors, said the defendants might call campaign manager Frank Schubert to the witness stand to dispute the inflammatory messages on the videotape came from the campaign.

An unidentified woman later said "a man wanting to marry a horse, brothers and sisters, any combination would have to be allowed."


Well this part isn't gonna make any difference considering all the crazy things people have married this past year. Obviously to some people marriage is not serious nor important anymore, people have taken the meaning of marriage and turned it into a joke.
As for gay marriage, I could care less whether they get married or not, its not me.

But my point is, there's no way it would open the doors to any of that, not anymore than the wacko stuff that goes on now. Bestiality is nowhere near the same thing, a horse cannot consent to anything...I hate that argument. I just see this whole thing as ridiculous, it's withholding rights to a group of people because it doesn't go along with Christianity...Would you not agree? Anyone not agree?

I'm sure it isn't just Christians that don't believe in homosexuality, there are plenty of other groups that don't believe in it also. Here is my thing, I am a Christian and I understand that people may have different views on things, I am not going to say whether it is right for Gays to marry or not because like I said I could care less. It isn't me and it is going to have no effect on me. My belief is that everyone is going to have to answer for what they have done. I have got enough to answer for without thinking about what someone else is going to have to answer for. I may think being Gay is wrong in my opinion and beliefs BUT I have had many many Gay friends, those issues never came up because its MY beliefs not theirs. they have their beliefs and I have mine, better off that way!!

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Originally Posted by R13

But my point is, there's no way it would open the doors to any of that, not anymore than the wacko stuff that goes on now. Bestiality is nowhere near the same thing, a horse cannot consent to anything...I hate that argument. I just see this whole thing as ridiculous, it's withholding rights to a group of people because it doesn't go along with Christianity...Would you not agree? Anyone not agree?

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IMHO the beasality argument is stupid however I DO think that the polyigmiee agrument is legit (If marage can be between 2 men why not 2 men and a women?)

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Originally Posted by Counts

IMHO the beasality argument is stupid however I DO think that the polyigmiee agrument is legit (If marage can be between 2 men why not 2 men and a women?)

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Not really, there would have to be a major movement by a very large group of polygamist, I don't think there is. There is what 5 states that have legalized it so far, polygamy is as far out of reach as it was before too.

With that said, I really wouldn't care. If there is consent, a guy with both wives or more knowing about the others, I have no argument against. If some guy can talk his wife into having another wife with his knowledge, not only do I not oppose it, I want to shake his hand :)

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

I'm sure it isn't just Christians that don't believe in homosexuality, there are plenty of other groups that don't believe in it also.

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You're right, they definitely not the only one, but the main one...they're the largest religious group here, then atheists/agnostic come in second(not much opposition there), then it's a huge drop off into 1/2% groups. It's a religious issue mainly and Christians are the largest opposition.

I think marriage has apparently turned into a joke for some people, its no longer about a life long commitment to someone you love, its "what or who or how many I can marry to get on the news or on Yahoo".
It's sad that somethings that USED to mean a lot to people a long time ago, mean nothing to people these days.

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Originally Posted by R13

You're right, they definitely not the only one, but the main one...they're the largest religious group here, then atheists/agnostic come in second(not much opposition there), then it's a huge drop off into 1/2% groups. It's a religious issue mainly and Christians are the largest opposition.

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Yea because Christians are horrible people and want everyone to be miserable :rolleyes: You're pathetic when it comes to trying to blame everything on a religious group. If you're not gay then why are you so worried about the rights for them to get married? If it's not affecting you personally then why do you get so worked up over it ?

I think R13 that you are forgetting that there are people in the world that have no religious views on this at all and just think that its gross and wrong. If some other religion were to outnumber Christians, I wonder if you would blame them as much???