Interesting perspective on HS baseball from KY legendary coach

PRP's Miller says prep baseball players put stats first

There is no more authoritative voice on Kentucky high school baseball than Pleasure Ridge Park Coach Bill Miller. He recently earned his 900th career victory, the third most in state history. In 30 years with the Panthers, he's won four state titles and been runner-up four times. He's a guru of the game.

So it was interesting to hear Miller expound on high school baseball when I called him to ask about his 900th win. He shrugged that off by saying he's been around a long time and has had a lot of good players. This year's PRP is 18-3 "but I don't know if that means anything. It may just mean we haven't played very good competition."

Thus began Miller's blunt appraisal of Kentucky high school baseball: "Everybody talks about how much better is these days, but I don't concur. Every year I think it gets weaker." Miller offered the opinion that past powerhouses, such as Madison Central's undefeated 1982 state champs and Harrison County's best clubs in the 1990s "would eat these teams alive today."

He thinks today's kids lack baseball instincts that come from playing a lot, even if it's stickball in the backyard.

"I think what happens is that parents are looking for shortcuts for their kids, so they pour money into private instruction, private hitting lessons." Miller thinks summer travel teams are also a curse. Players (and their parents) are more interested in individual highlights and catching a scout's eye than learning the basics of the game. "What's happening in baseball is what happened with AAU basketball several years ago, and it's pathetic what it did to basketball."

Just as some kids (and their parents) consider AAU hoops more important than the high school game, Miller thinks the same thing is taking hold in baseball. Parents are wary of their kids' high school coaches counteracting what their kids learned in private instruction. "Used to be, parents brought their kids to us and asked us to make them better," Miller said. "Now they say, 'My son's been working with so-and-so. I don't want you messing with him.

"I guess I sound like a doomsayer," Miller added. "I hope I'm wrong. Maybe it's a cycle. Maybe we'll see better teams and players come along. But it doesn't seem to be going that direction."

Very interesting.

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"I think what happens is that parents are looking for shortcuts for their kids, so they pour money into private instruction, private hitting lessons." Miller thinks summer travel teams are also a curse. Players (and their parents) are more interested in individual highlights and catching a scout's eye than learning the basics of the game. "What's happening in baseball is what happened with AAU basketball several years ago, and it's pathetic what it did to basketball."

Just as some kids (and their parents) consider AAU hoops more important than the high school game, Miller thinks the same thing is taking hold in baseball. Parents are wary of their kids' high school coaches counteracting what their kids learned in private instruction. "Used to be, parents brought their kids to us and asked us to make them better," Miller said. "Now they say, 'My son's been working with so-and-so. I don't want you messing with him.

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I'm a fan of this Coach Miller w/o even knowing him, just from those two quotes.

I've said this for a while that AAU/travel ball is ruining kids learning the game of baseball, especially the basics/mechanics. I started back into coaching Little League in Coeburn this year again, and it's amazing to see the lack of fundamentals in 9-12 year olds that have played since T-Ball. Used to a few years ago, you could easily see a double-play turned, for instance, in a typical Coeburn LL game. Nowadays, it's more rare than a triple-play. Kids catching popups one-handed (if at all), pitchers w/no actual mechanics but to step to the side and fire towards the plate, it's an adventure everytime a kid has a groundball hit to him. Not to mention lack of discipline at the plate--I don't think the kids know where the strike zone actually is (note--not talking about umps here, I'm talking about the rule of where the strike zone is on a hitter). Mechanics at the plate aren't as good as they used to be either--across the board, kids tend to go up, swing hard nowhere near the pitch with their head going out, and wonder why they don't hit the ball.

Plus--situational awareness is lacking. I asked a kid playing 3rd for us what the play was if the ball was hit to him and we had a runner on 1st, 1 out. (Turn-two, automatic, 2B covering...right?) He responded that he'd be covering 3rd in case the SS didn't get to the ball. I was appalled. OF's tend to get the ball and not know where to throw it b/c 3 different kids are yelling "throw it to me".

I've said all of that to say this--the two main reasons why you see what I observed are 1) travel ball takes your better players out of LL (which is more instructional in nature), and puts them in AAU/travel ball which is always hyper-competitive. They compete, but they lose key practice time to learn proper fundamentals. 2) Instruction on the T-Ball/Minor league levels is lacking, plus the rules in Minor league are watered down (pitching machines/coach pitch/all players on the field at once), which forces kids who want to actually play ball as it is intended into AAU/travel ball.

The third reason is lack of interest in baseball & learning the game overall. This is the video game generation, and most kids would rather be Adrian Peterson in Madden 11 or LeBron in NBA Live 11 than do the physical work necessary to aspire to be Albert Pujols in real life. Plus, kids want to make diving catches, throw the ball really hard, hit the ball hard...all without learning the basics/mechanics first that make those things happen.

Not saying there aren't kids that have the proper perspective and want to learn the game out there, it's just that these days due to those things I just outlined, they're far & few between when compared to as little as 10 years ago.

So you know I'm not all doom & gloom, I'll report this: The kids I'm helping to coach currently were lacking in all those ways I've mentioned. We started preaching/drilling more fundamentals and (finally) got some practice time last Tuesday. We lost 8-2 Wednesday, won 1-0 Thursday (kid threw a no-hitter and we played good solid D behind him), and won 12-2 in 5 innings on Saturday. This was after losses earlier in the year of 18-5, 14-3, etc. SO--the kids are having more fun playing the game the right way and winning as opposed to playing it the way they want and losing. Trust me folks--it can be done!

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Originally Posted by CoeburnCane

I'm a fan of this Coach Miller w/o even knowing him, just from those two quotes.

I've said this for a while that AAU/travel ball is ruining kids learning the game of baseball, especially the basics/mechanics. I started back into coaching Little League in Coeburn this year again, and it's amazing to see the lack of fundamentals in 9-12 year olds that have played since T-Ball. Used to a few years ago, you could easily see a double-play turned, for instance, in a typical Coeburn LL game. Nowadays, it's more rare than a triple-play. Kids catching popups one-handed (if at all), pitchers w/no actual mechanics but to step to the side and fire towards the plate, it's an adventure everytime a kid has a groundball hit to him. Not to mention lack of discipline at the plate--I don't think the kids know where the strike zone actually is (note--not talking about umps here, I'm talking about the rule of where the strike zone is on a hitter). Mechanics at the plate aren't as good as they used to be either--across the board, kids tend to go up, swing hard nowhere near the pitch with their head going out, and wonder why they don't hit the ball.

Plus--situational awareness is lacking. I asked a kid playing 3rd for us what the play was if the ball was hit to him and we had a runner on 1st, 1 out. (Turn-two, automatic, 2B covering...right?) He responded that he'd be covering 3rd in case the SS didn't get to the ball. I was appalled. OF's tend to get the ball and not know where to throw it b/c 3 different kids are yelling "throw it to me".

I've said all of that to say this--the two main reasons why you see what I observed are 1) travel ball takes your better players out of LL (which is more instructional in nature), and puts them in AAU/travel ball which is always hyper-competitive. They compete, but they lose key practice time to learn proper fundamentals. 2) Instruction on the T-Ball/Minor league levels is lacking, plus the rules in Minor league are watered down (pitching machines/coach pitch/all players on the field at once), which forces kids who want to actually play ball as it is intended into AAU/travel ball.

The third reason is lack of interest in baseball & learning the game overall. This is the video game generation, and most kids would rather be Adrian Peterson in Madden 11 or LeBron in NBA Live 11 than do the physical work necessary to aspire to be Albert Pujols in real life. Plus, kids want to make diving catches, throw the ball really hard, hit the ball hard...all without learning the basics/mechanics first that make those things happen.

Not saying there aren't kids that have the proper perspective and want to learn the game out there, it's just that these days due to those things I just outlined, they're far & few between when compared to as little as 10 years ago.

So you know I'm not all doom & gloom, I'll report this: The kids I'm helping to coach currently were lacking in all those ways I've mentioned. We started preaching/drilling more fundamentals and (finally) got some practice time last Tuesday. We lost 8-2 Wednesday, won 1-0 Thursday (kid threw a no-hitter and we played good solid D behind him), and won 12-2 in 5 innings on Saturday. This was after losses earlier in the year of 18-5, 14-3, etc. SO--the kids are having more fun playing the game the right way and winning as opposed to playing it the way they want and losing. Trust me folks--it can be done!

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IDK I think I will stickup for Travelball alittle My Daughter plays on a team and does the LL thing aswell IMHO so long as the coaches of the differant teams are not working against eachother mecanics wise I think that the better competitions at the Travelball level will make for a better player in the long run (Barring burnout which is a very real danger)


There is no doubt that IF a LL org loses it top 10% of players to Travel Ball it is VERY bad for the LL overall I do not think that is becouse travelball is teaching bad fundamentals but becouse if those top 10% are no longer there that dobble play is going to be alot tougher to come by

I take it as if he is talking about AAU and travel ball once the kid is playing HS sports. I'll say this..if I'm a HS coach who knows what I'm doing, and I have a player who is struggling and his parents don't want me to coach or correct the player because of the OPINION of a travel ball coach, I'm telling:

1)-the parents to hit the bricks
and
2)-the player to enjoy playing travel ball...

cuz I wouldn't fight that fight regardless of what the player meant to my team. In the long run, it'd be an instance of addition by subtraction.

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Originally Posted by sup-rbeast

I take it as if he is talking about AAU and travel ball once the kid is playing HS sports. I'll say this..if I'm a HS coach who knows what I'm doing, and I have a player who is struggling and his parents don't want me to coach or correct the player because of the OPINION of a travel ball coach

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Good point I am not sure that the 2 seasons should overlap (All for the kids playing Travel Ball after the HS season but probably not during the season)

Thing I was referring to was the coach's statement regarding parents not wanting him to tamper with the things travel ball coaches had taught his players...regardless of whether the seasons overlap or not...there comes a point where the parents and athletes have to choose. Because, most coaches try to correct flaws in their players..it doesn't matter who put the flaw there or coached them one way or the other. A good coach knows what needs to be done and does it.

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Originally Posted by Counts

IDK I think I will stickup for Travelball alittle My Daughter plays on a team and does the LL thing aswell IMHO so long as the coaches of the differant teams are not working against eachother mecanics wise I think that the better competitions at the Travelball level will make for a better player in the long run (Barring burnout which is a very real danger)


There is no doubt that IF a LL org loses it top 10% of players to Travel Ball it is VERY bad for the LL overall I do not think that is becouse travelball is teaching bad fundamentals but becouse if those top 10% are no longer there that dobble play is going to be alot tougher to come by

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To each their own, brother. I'm just detailing what I've seen from the LL side of things through the years.

I will say this--if you're doing travel ball, that's great, but I think you ought to do both LL and travel ball. Kudos to you and yours for doing that.

I think it all goes back to what are we teaching. If you are on an AAU or travel team and the coach of that team is stressing the fundamentals, then I think the situation can be good. Anytime you can work on your fundamentals, and work with someone who knows what they are doing, you are in a win/win situation.

My daughter benefited from being on an AAU team. But she benefited because the coach of her AAU team was also a former high school coach who stressed fundamentals first.

I agree with the post earlier that we live with a generation of kids who would rather play video games. It takes desire and a good work ethic to be a good player.