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For me, it was writing and arranging songs with full MIDI sequencing. This forced me to pay CLOSE attention to EVERY part and how they interact, support, create tension, etc. I think writing music REALLY helped me be a better drummer able to play for the song and REALLY understanding structure and flow.
And then there's listening to the masters over and over until the CD wears out....
Danny
A view from the outside. Having an objective consciousness is the key to hearing. Many "drummers" have a subjective consciousness---that is, looking out from yourself and seeing from your eyes or hearing from your ears.
Being objective means looking from the outside, from another point of view. Picture looking at your band from the audience. What would you hear? Is the band together, are the drums too loud--not loud enough. Only when you get outside yourself can you truly hear what is going on.
Metaphysics plays a part in collective improvisation, and swinging the bandstand.
Pretend you are hovering 2 feet behind and above yourself when playing with a group. These mental tricks can do some interesting things for your awareness. [img]graemlins/camera.gif[/img]
I think that having great ears comes from absolute concentration of what is going on around us, but mostly I think it comes from the experience of having listened to and played in a large variety of musical settings. This enables us to develop instinct to predict in many cases what the sax player, guitarist, bass player, pianist, etc is going to do next. If a drummer only plays, say, rock, then put them in a jazz enviroment, and they possibly won't really be able to understand enough about the music to make an appropriate judgement as to what to play. But someone that has played a fair bit of jazz, rock, fusion, and a whole bunch of genres is going to be more adaptable and chameleonlike, so he'll instinctively hear what needs to be played at any point in a song. Having said all that, even if we knew nothing about a certain style of music, I think by listening carefully to the other musicians in the band, we can usually quickly pick up on where they're coming from, which can help us decide if we need to play simply or busier.
In a nutshell, I think every musician just has to be very sensitive and open, and listen to as much music as possible, not narrow minded and selfish and musically limiting to himself. That's my feeling on it anyway [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I like the answers I've seen so far and really, they point in the same direction, as I see it.
I believe we're talking about a sense of preparedness and familiarity, developed through experience and of both listening and actually playing. I like the mentioning of the external or "objective" view too, which LaDanny talked about having experienced in writing etc. This opens the door to receiving what OTHERs are doing and allow us to better compliment them.
How do we "anticipate" something before it comes? I think that's another way of phrasing this. With other things, we'd always bring up how important it is to do it over and over again.
Listening to A LOT of music is a requirement. As drummers, then working out a lot of it is needed too and to make it more specific now, developing the patterns that allow manipulation of the different rhythmic variations matters, as well.
The example for me is the smooth transition from the basic structure of the paradiddle into the paradiddle-diddle. I know. It sounds simplistic but I think that's what it really comes down to. A command of this transition, dynamically, allows you to walk in and out the 3 and 4 and everything else will be something that can be derived from this. When you hear it, you will know it.
Familiarity can breed contempt but it can also breed empathy and it's the latter we're really looking for in drums and life.
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<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2004 09:51 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
I wanted to devote a thread to this topic. I would like to know what you think are the best ways to develop your ear.
Pocketplayer brought this up and it's important.
I will contribute to this tomorrow but I wanted to get things rolling on it.
There are some great players out there with big ears and I want to see if we can come up with ideas on how we can get there.
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<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2004 01:21 AM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
Great topic! We could write a few chapters on this one. The foundation for serious listening ability starts when we are real young. Babies can hear in the womb after a certain point in the pregnancy. Kids under 1 year of age can differentiate speech sounds. And a lot of great young players are the children of great players so they were probably exposed to great music very early in life.
As we get older we can still improve our critical listening skills. These, of course, are crucial for our musical growth and our ability to fit into whatever musical culture we're going for.
Great idea for a thread Pete. I'm not some wise guy or anything, but I think "wisdom" comes with playing for a long time.I don't think the sort of evolution you've gone through, even since I've known you on here (yes, I've noticed QUITE a change) can't be taught. I think the kinds of realizations and eye-opening experiences that make you come to these kinds of conclusions happen at thier own pace. If I read your post 15 years ago, I would't get it.
For me best things I have ever written/came up with have just been jamming/improvising (I make sure to record everything like you do) and listening back and try to neatpick different motifs, tension/releases and other alternatives approaches I would have taken.
Honestly, whatever road you take and whatever approach you use toward music, if you believe in it and don't shit on other people, it's probably going to work to one degree or another. But realizing how much fat I could trim from any of my compositions, how many of the notes are wasted and hide good ideas and what not.
I would love to learn more about theory and how to construct *parts* because there are a lot of creative things I have in my head that I have no idea how to lay out which is quite unfortunate. [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2004 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
I find that all the greats have very big ears. It's apparent when musicians are really listening to eachother in a band.
A lot of guys listen to everything but focus on the drums while playin (they are the loudest thing from our POV usually.)
I guess the biggest thing is the approach before you even sit down. More specifically, playing for the music, not for "good drumming". Taking that approach seriously means listening to the band as you play.
For rock, an overall good feeling sound I think is what I would listen for. A strong backbeat that's a bit out front. For jazz, it would be if it's swinging or not, where I fit dynamically, and listen to what the soloist is saying and support/interact when apropriate.
Of course all these things easier typed than done for me. They're just ideas I try to practice when I can.
Another thing I want to add is this: Practicing a lot, and getting your playing together will help because the less you have to "try" and focus on drumming-wise, the more brain power available to listen to the music. And all of this during the heat-of-the-moment on stage can be difficult.
Also educating yourself on other insturments and THIER agenda is priceless. Knowing where everyone else is coming from will only make you a better team player. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 28, 2004 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is exactly my point with doing FULL sequences. It FORCES me to understand each instrument's place, impact, influence, etc. That has been the BEST tool for developing ears. Obviously, there's ALWAYS room to grow and improve.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Holmes:
Also educating yourself on other insturments and THIER agenda is priceless. Knowing where everyone else is coming from will only make you a better team player. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 28, 2004 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font></font>
You can pick up a good "workstation" type keyboard fairly cheap that lets you mess around with all the various parts. Even if you can't play piano, just playing with the sounds and layering them into an idea is very helpful.
Danny
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 29, 2004 03:43 AM: Message edited by: ladanny ]</font>