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OK...I knew if I sat here bored long enough I would think of a legitimate topic I have been wondering about.
History - I have put synthetic oil in my '91 Civic DX (d15b2) since I bought the car with 63,000 miles on it. It now has 188,000. I have used Castrol Syntec 5w-50 in the past, but in the last 50,000 miles or so went to Mobil 1 5w-30 as it is more available and I don't like switching oils around regularly. I also read something about maybe the 5w-50 wasn't really the best grade to use for our engines, but all the data about viscosity numbers and such were confusing http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/confused.gif, and seeing that most use Mobil 1 with success I decided to join that party.
I have religiously (yup really, even in the winter! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif) changed the oil every 5,000 miles (incl. filter) from 65,000 up until 185,000 (my last change)- For the last 30,000 miles or so the engine has been steadily starting to burn more and more oil. I do run this little SOHC pretty hard, but I don't think I abuse it. I always try to give it a minute or two to run in the driveway (especially when cold) and I try not to rev it hard until it is warmed up.
I am now putting in approximately 2 quarts in between changes (1 quart roughly every 1,750 to 2,000 miles and then it is about 1/2 quart low at the 5,000 mile change mark.)
I have read in some forums that older engines cannot reap the benefits of synthetic oil later in their lives, and you should stop using them. My question is WHEN?, WHY?, HOW COME?, and WTF? Synthetic oil seems to be the ONE thing man can create better than nature so why would I stop using it?
The cost of the synthetic oil isn't really the issue, I figure a $25 cost every 5,000 miles to keep my baby running well is nothing....but if I am now wasting my money with this old motor, why bother, and if I am hurting the motor by continuing to run synthetic I want to know that too.
I do occasionally have a little blue smoke at start-up (indicating ailing valve guides I think, but this doesn't happen often) but the primary source of the oil burning seems to be during higher revving (hard acceleration) of the motor, trying to keep up with faster cars at traffic lights and seeing blow-by in the rear-view http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
My step-dad recommends running thicker oil as the piston rings go, so that you can help reduce burning and blow-by, (he has a '79 Chevy truck with its 2nd 350 v8 block and 3rd set of heads with 480k miles on it http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif ) But then again, I think thicker oil (20w-50??) will increase wear at startup since it is thicker already and harder to suck up cold from the oil pan...seems like a catch22 there. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/confused.gif
Do you any of you peeps have opinions? I would especially like some insight because I hope to be starting all of this over with a pretty new (rebuilt maybe http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) motor soon!
HELP!?!?!?!?!?! Thanks! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/cool.gif
P.S.> Oh yeah..and sorry for the long post, but sometimes I think peeps are TOO brief and then we are like "WTF was that all about?" when we read it, so I decided longer is better so I could explain myself. Thanks for reading! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif)
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-Shawn
91 DX 4-door
AEM CAI & other mods which only add weight http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
4-doors kick butt & I am patiently waiting for 91zc to pull that ZC!! I hope it is not fried!! Oh well..i did say I was willing to rebuild in my old sig didn't I? I guess this is my chance http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by sastanley (edited January 15, 2002).]
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I would just say switch to a conventional oil since the d15 will become a boat anchor soon. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif I have never used synthetic since I have heard and read that hondas tend to burn synthetic easier than a conventional oil. I don't know how much truth there is in this but I have not had a problem with burning oil in my d15 or my ZC. I plan on using conventional in my b16 once it is all wired up. When you rebuild a motor you only use conventional oil during the break in period. So I figure why not use it all the time. Hmmpff...this conventional vs. synthetic has been discussed so much that I just stuck with what worked for me. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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1991 Civic 4dr
B16A
a bunch of other mods
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 91zc:
I would just say switch to a conventional oil since the d15 will become a boat anchor soon. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif I have never used synthetic since I have heard and read that hondas tend to burn synthetic easier than a conventional oil. I don't know how much truth there is in this but I have not had a problem with burning oil in my d15 or my ZC. I plan on using conventional in my b16 once it is all wired up. When you rebuild a motor you only use conventional oil during the break in period. So I figure why not use it all the time. Hmmpff...this conventional vs. synthetic has been discussed so much that I just stuck with what worked for me. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey...how the hell did you know I use old engines for boat anchors - lol! One of my other "hobbies" is sailboat racing (everything from 14' Lasers to 30+' "big" boats) and I am currently the Race Governor for our local club (approx. 350 members), which means that I am in charge of the racing program and we have semi-permanent race marks in the Chesapeake Bay that in fact use old engine blocks as anchors http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif One is an old Oldsmobile straight six, and one is a GM 4.3 v6 with 350 v8 heads bolted to it (which works great since the 4.3 is a 350 minus 2 cylinders http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif)
Back to the subject, thanks for speaking up and throwing in your $0.02. I am thinking about just running the ZC with conventional and changing every 2,500 so it is easy to remember on the odometer. I have never believed Honda when they say you can go 7,500 in between changes using conventional 5w-30...that just seems too long when a conventional change costs $7. To me, that is like running 15 PSI in your tires so they wear out quicker cuz it takes to long to pump them up to 35 PSI..
And, my experience has also never proven to me how much better synthetic is. My last two Civics were used (the '85 died at 165,000 miles and I bought it with 105K, but used synthetic for the 3 years I had it) so I dunno if that has any bearing. I would like to think that the synthetic has helped and these dummies before me didn't take care of the car before I bought it. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/confused.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/confused.gif who knows?
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That's it! I am going to be changing my oil in about 2 hours. I am going with BULK oil, because of this post and I don't have the $45 to pay for the expensive stuff. I have 137,000 miles or so right now and I wonder if it will make a difference I can feel. I will keep you updated.
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91 Si:
-K&N drop-in
-Tokico HP sturts(blue)
-Weapon R circut pro's
[image]http://www.weapon-r.com/images/bxselect.jpg[/image]
[This message has been edited by POS_91Si (edited January 15, 2002).]
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when synthetic oil was first introduced, one of the main advantages was that you could run synthetic oil for 7500 miles between oil changes. if you're planning on changing your oil on a more regular interval (3000-5000), convential is just as good in my book. now the other thing about synthetic oil is that it's "slicker" and thinner. it's not good to use synthetic on freshly rebuilt or new engines as it is "too slick" and doesn't provide the necessary lubrication for a young engine. once the engine is broken in, however, synthetic is fine, and might even let the motor run better. the other thing..as synthetic is thinner, it tends to find leaks easier than the thicker convential stuff. i use synthetic in my 300zx cuz it's thinner and can cool my intercoolers easier. i use conventional in my b16 cuz i'm still in the break in period, and i'll probably continue to use convential after that time. my.02, i'll shut up now.
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-Ben L.
1989 Civic Si
1990 300ZX TT Stage III
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thanks ben (& 91zc) for the info about break-in periods - I was aware you are supposed to use conventional for break-in but figured my post was long enough and didn't cover that subject. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
What I understand about synthetics is that they hold up better (and hence longer so you don't need to change as often, so I go 5,000) and don't break down into sludge as quickly as conventional oils, which is supposed to give them better lubricating properties, in turn you have less mechanical wear on parts and longer engine life. My personal experiences have not convinced me of this and so far I see no reason to continue spending 300% more for synthetic oil, regardless of how long I can go in between changes. Obviously, my car burns it too fast anyway - lol http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
and POS_91 - although I have been spending the money on synthetic oil for a while, I still tell people that frequent changes with bulk/generic oil is still better than NOT changing it. My sister used to go forever, and I finally convinced her that cheap oil changes are better than NO oil changes. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/cool.gif
[This message has been edited by sastanley (edited January 15, 2002).]
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Honda Aust recommends and uses synthetic in all Honda engines. For a B series engine they recommend changes every 10,000km - I do it more regularly since the size of their oilfilters reduced. I've never had problems with it in the 8-9 Hondas I've owned, but I have noticed that Honda engines don't get old slowly. One week they run fine, the next they are chugging smoke and are ready to be rebuilt. Bite the bullet and fix that sucker http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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'90 JDM EF9 SiR
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Do anybody knows oil SUPERTEC in my country is the best oil for hondas,cause is so silky and it's better than castrol and all others it's very good oil for vtec-s and regular honda engine!!!
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[image]http://www.xtinctstudios.com/cars/images/type_r_logo_ani.gif[/image]
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If your engine burns oil...the Synthetics will actually not allow it to seal any better and it will accelerate the wear, and allow more blowby because it is so slick and thin like said in the above. I know this first hand.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben L:
[B now the other thing about synthetic oil is that it's "slicker" and thinner. it's not good to use synthetic on freshly rebuilt or new engines as it is "too slick" and doesn't provide the necessary lubrication for a young engine. once the engine is broken in, however, synthetic is fine, and might even let the motor run better[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The reason you don't use synthetic right after a rebuild is becasue it lubricates so well that the rings can't seat properly, by using a conventional oil it lets the engine wear enough for the rings to seat. This is exactly the reason i run synthetic in my car, if you can't use it cause it won't let your engine wear enough for the rings to seat, imagine how much it is helping on those frequent trips to 7 grand(I know but it's still just a 1.5 for now)
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