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Does anybody have some tips on how to play those really really fast bebop ride patterns? I tend to tighten up when it gets really uptempo so I was wondering, is it all fingers or do you have to kind of 'let go' of the stick so to speak.
Thanks for any help
hi jvr2000 !
I`ve found that you have to "let go" of the stick. Let it bounce, use the rebound for what it`s worth. Let the laws of physics work for you, instead of leaving all the work to the fingers.
This is how I do it:
I throw the stick down, let the rebound take care of the second stroke while I, on the third stroke, sort of "pick up" the stick by snapping it back into my palm. I tend to use a slight sideway/outward motion. That way, the motion is more like a circle as opposed to an "up and down" thing.
Think up and out, don`t bury yourself in the cymbal. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I hope you found this somewhat helpfull. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I belive john riley had an article in MD a few years ago abt this.. use a para diddle diddle pattern to play really fast ride pattern.
the paradiddle diddle goes RLRRLL... if it is really fast bpm~250 and up.. ur eight notes become straight.. so u are in fact playin the paradiddlediddles as straight eighth notes.. the groupin of six will resolve itself after three bars (as six eight notes are three counts) or after repeatin the diddles 4 times... ur hihats stick to 2 and 4 .. or it could go with the hands for a more "out" effect.. if the bassist is hip to what u are doin, u can really start cooking some cool stuff..
i use this to great effect as it adds rhythmic tension due to the odd groupings and it gives the arms a chance to recharge....
Hav fun!
cheers!
Woh,
Elvin Jones used this pattern all
the time and Steve Gadd picked up
on it - loving Elvin. It is as you
say; very useful.
At the same time, the idea of let-
ting the stick work for you more is
something to consider; it important
to control the stick in as many ways
as needed to produce the effects that
are desired.
Strive for Tony. Watch his videos
very, very closely. It's not going
to necessarily jibe with everything
you hear people talk about but that's
not important.
Believe in the possibility. Believe it.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Good replies.
Bounce, fingers, AND slight wrist...
Weckl & Smith have excellent approaches to this.
Just keep practicing, analyzing what u r doing; look at your ride hand while u r doing it; relax your hand...the best way 4 u will come to u after a time...
One of the best "riders" is Jack Dejohnette, I mean is there anything the man can't do well LOL.
Check out his video "Musical Expression on the Drumset", it covers many topics besides ride technique and remember there's more to it than speed like he would point out, the phrasing, and getting into the character of the piece, is your attack contemplating the flow of the tune that brings back the "tribal" aspect of interaction between musician and the listener perse, the melody and mood of the piece, and that's what it's all about IMO. And then u should worry about technique itself, is it "smoothly and comfortably" exicuted, not in a mechanical sense where you sound like a ROBOT but rather being "tight" while at the same time being "loose"?. You'll hear this very much evident in improvisational drummers like Jack. That's probably due to the nature of the music where sporatic structure demands it. If you can negotiate around the drum set in a manner that you feel comfortable, then the point in achieving your goal may be in playing with others and not practicing alone. You need to recognise that IF you've been playing rock for most of your playing years, and that will, I'm sure of, dictate what the final outcome will sound like. But thats OK, if you have the permission to approaching a paticular song when other people are involved. But if it's just you playing along with tapes or CD's, than thats even cooler. Always keep in mind that whatever you practice or articulate, it "must" be applicable (practical in use) when playing with other musicians. We can't isolate our ideas and practice time from real-life-playing situations. [img]smile.gif[/img]
PS/EDIT-Actually, I consider the ride to be my weakest point, the part of the kit that I have the most difficulty to incorporate correctly (or should I say creatively) in my playing. I suppose I?ll need to work a lot on that AW myself. I surely lack the experience in jazz to always be certain of the way the music is affected from what I play, and to always be in the correct "mood" without having to think what the next step will be. But I guess improvisational music is an area that needs a lot of experience and very good knowledge of the basic vocabulary.
NOTE:I think Benrand posted "Song X" awhile ago, give it a listen and u'll understand what I mean. Listen to the details of what's going on. . His time is right there, he listens really well. There's a flow that's really just perfect, he's very musical IMO. I think that you are on a threshold of potentially evolving into that avenue of music once you get comfortable listening to the music itself.You don't know what you're missing if you don't get into it. By learning it, so much of everything else becomes available and familiar. [img]graemlins/music.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 11, 2004 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>
Interesting topic. I have watched again Weckl's technique video portion of the three strokes--Moeller, fingers, wrists. I also watched Minneman's portion of technique and use of fingers--rotating between all three. Back when Dave's videos came out I remember Andy V--then called X Navy Drummer--adjusting his grip to the middle finger and posting his progress on occasion.
I've recently been working through Stone's book again--first few pages--trying to isolate excercises that would challenge and develop speed with the various sticking combinations. After a time with this, I end up going back to more repetitive exercises--singles, doubles, 5,6,7,8,9 stroke rolls, isloating one hand doing singles, doubles, triples, quads, etc. trying to nail that rebound or the "Think up and out" concept.
Can anyone suggest more specific stickings that would help. Time is always an issue, and I'm working on a new routine that would really focus on letting the stick rebound or as Smith said in a recent clinic, "Allow your hand to follow the stick as it rebounds, letting the stick do the work."
In addition to the sticking and articulation it helps if one has a ride cymbal with the right amount of spread.
My teacher actually showed me a technique for this because I was learning to play the song "Magic Flea" which is arranged by Sammy Nestico and performed by Basie. This song really moves so the ride pattern gets going really fast.
Basically you get 3 hits for every one stroke you play. The stroke itself kinda comes in sideways. The analogy my teacher used was try to use the same motion as when you're skipping stones on water. So you play the stroke like that and you'll get the first hit, then the next two hits happen by themselves kinda skipping along the surface of the cymbal the way a rock skips on water. And then you just repeat it over and over again to acheive the fast jazz ride pattern. Hope that makes sense...it's kinda hard to describe.
Yep - the 3 stroke roll is the rudiment here to practice. Helps if you have a heavy ride cymbal too!