The Lord criticised both science and arts related to worldly aspects

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August 26th, 2006, 11:09 AM
dattaswami

The Lord criticised both science and arts related to worldly aspects (Vedavadaratah, Trigunya Vishayah?Gita). The Lord says that both are waste since you are not touching anything about the Lord (Namyadastiti?Gita). Such people are attracted to the worldly selfish pleasures only and not to please the Lord. The dynamism observed in such people is also not appreciated by the Lord because both walking and running in the wrong direction are useless (Kriya Visesha Bahulam?Gita).

The Lord is giving stress on the devotees to cross the difference between good and bad faced in the world. You should be showing the same love and kindness to both good and bad people and also love friends and enemies in the same way. If you praise a good person and a friend and scold a bad person and enemy, you have failed in the Yoga. Tomorrow when you reach the Lord in the human form, He will appear bad and damage you like any. Then you will scold the Lord also. For example the devotees of Vishnu criticise Lord Siva, since Lord Siva appears with the qualities of Tamas. This is very important essence of Gita that one will succeed in the tests of the Lord in human form only if he raises himself above the three qualities (Satvam, Rajas and Tamas). Therefore you should not be disturbed by the negative qualities or positive qualities in the world like insult and honour, enmity and friendship, loss and benefit, misery and happiness etc (Gunanetanatetyatrin?Gita).

Only such devotee can succeed the tests of the Lord and can please the Lord. This yukta state, which is the final stage of the Yoga, is called as the real sanyasa. Here the word sanyasa does not mean the external indications like saffron cloth, leaving the house etc (Naniragnih?Gita). The sanyasin is that person who has completely sacrificed everything and everyone for the sake of the service to the Lord. Such sanyasin or yukta alone can be fully blessed by the Lord and enters the innermost circle of the Lord (Brahmabhuyaya?Gita).

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
[email protected]
November 26th, 2007, 09:17 PM
zozey

Quote:

Originally posted by dattaswami:
The Lord criticised both science and arts related to worldly aspects (Vedavadaratah, Trigunya Vishayah?Gita). The Lord says that both are waste since you are not touching anything about the Lord (Namyadastiti?Gita). Such people are attracted to the worldly selfish pleasures only and not to please the Lord. The dynamism observed in such people is also not appreciated by the Lord because both walking and running in the wrong direction are useless (Kriya Visesha Bahulam?Gita).

The Lord is giving stress on the devotees to cross the difference between good and bad faced in the world. You should be showing the same love and kindness to both good and bad people and also love friends and enemies in the same way. If you praise a good person and a friend and scold a bad person and enemy, you have failed in the Yoga. Tomorrow when you reach the Lord in the human form, He will appear bad and damage you like any. Then you will scold the Lord also. For example the devotees of Vishnu criticise Lord Siva, since Lord Siva appears with the qualities of Tamas. This is very important essence of Gita that one will succeed in the tests of the Lord in human form only if he raises himself above the three qualities (Satvam, Rajas and Tamas). Therefore you should not be disturbed by the negative qualities or positive qualities in the world like insult and honour, enmity and friendship, loss and benefit, misery and happiness etc (Gunanetanatetyatrin?Gita).

Only such devotee can succeed the tests of the Lord and can please the Lord. This yukta state, which is the final stage of the Yoga, is called as the real sanyasa. Here the word sanyasa does not mean the external indications like saffron cloth, leaving the house etc (Naniragnih?Gita). The sanyasin is that person who has completely sacrificed everything and everyone for the sake of the service to the Lord. Such sanyasin or yukta alone can be fully blessed by the Lord and enters the innermost circle of the Lord (Brahmabhuyaya?Gita).

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
[email protected]

What do you view as "pleasing the lord", how do you know there is a lord?
I seriously doubt that "the lord" has ever said anything about science. Perhaps the bible was simply made up to answer questions like, how did the earth come to be, and how did people come into existence.Religion has a ton of pretty stories, but we have to accept science and arwins theory. They make a lot more sense than a guy in the sky saying zap. Oh, and then there was light.
November 27th, 2007, 02:49 PM
dattaswami

[quote]Originally posted by Snortsie:
[QB]

Quote:

", how do you know there is a lord?
QB]

The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam? Veda).

Such unimagiable God comes in human form to give His presence to us. God comes in human form to preach and uplift the human souls through His divine knowledge. The wonderful knoweldge itself is the proof of God. God is here right now on this world. You can see Him, touch Him and talk to Him and co-live with Him.
November 27th, 2007, 02:51 PM
dattaswami

Quote:

. Perhaps the bible was simply made up to answer questions like, how did the earth come to be, and how did people come into existence.Religion has a ton of pretty stories, but we have to accept science and arwins theory. They make a lot more sense than a guy in the sky saying zap. Oh, and then there was light.[/QB]

The formation of matter from energy is clearly proved by Einstein through the law of equivalence of mass and energy. Therefore, the theory of evolution proposed by Darwin associated with the Einstein?s theories will certainly prove the evolution of universe from the energy or space in sequential manner. But Veda mentions one more item indicated by the word Atman as the ultimate cause from which the primordial energy or space was generated (Atmana akashah? Veda). You cannot say that the word Atman means awareness here, because, awareness (purushah) is mentioned as the third generated product in the chain of evolution. A generated product in the chain cannot be the first ultimate cause.

The scientist may say that there is no necessity of the word Atman as the ultimate cause because the meaning of the word Atman can neither be energy, nor matter, and nor the awareness because these three items are already existing in the world. Moreover, energy, matter and awareness are visible items in the light of development of advanced electronic equipments. Even the awareness is visible which is in the form of waves propagating in the nerves found by the latest instruments. Even Gita says this that awareness or soul can be seen by scholars (pashyanti jnanachakshushah). Therefore, the meaning of the word Atman must be unimaginable item, which is not the object of senses, mind, intelligence and even sharp logical analysis (Na chakshushah, aprapya manasa, na medhaya, naisha tarkena? Veda). The best word that can be used to mean such unimaginable object is ?wordless? (Ashabda mavyayam? Veda). A negative word like ParaBrahman can also be used which means that which is not Brahman.

But the word Atman is used which means the awareness that is pervading all over the human body (sarvam shariram atati iti atma). This word means awareness along with its property of pervasion. An independent existence of awareness pervading the space is not available and hence the awareness pervading in a human body alone should be taken. If you take simply the awareness pervading all over a human body as Atman mentioned here, such a possibility is negated because the awareness in the human body is not an unimaginable object which exists in the beginning of the chain since such awareness already appeared in the end of the chain as the normal awareness or life (purusha). Therefore, the word Atman here means a human being, which is completely different from any other human being, which appeared in the end of the chain of evolution. Such a special human being is the superman or human incarnation like Krishna in whom the existence of the special unimaginable item is inferred.

Veda says that the existence of such superman is the basis of the inference of the unimaginable item called as God. But mere Veda cannot stand as an authority because it can be disposed as poetic imagination of some selfish priests to exploit the society in the name of God. Therefore, mere scripture (Shabdapramanam) cannot be the authority. All the authorities (pramanams) are based on perception (pratyaksham) only.

[ November 27, 2007 10:52 AM: Message edited by: dattaswami ]
November 27th, 2007, 02:51 PM
dattaswami

Quote:

I seriously doubt that "the lord" has ever said anything about science. Perhaps the bible was simply made up to answer questions like, how did the earth come to be, and how did people come into existence.Religion has a ton of pretty stories, but we have to accept science and arwins theory. They make a lot more sense than a guy in the sky saying zap. Oh, and then there was light.[/QB]

The main aspect in the theory of evolution proposed by Darwin is that any organ is developed to meet a need. Similarly, any organ is suppressed when the need disappears. In the case of a man the tail disappeared since its use was not there due to the efficiency improved in the hands in driving away the flies. Therefore, evolution based on need is the real guiding factor in the case of living beings. Even in the spiritual field the same basic concept is maintained. When some people found out that the happiness could be obtained through their own materialistic effects, the need for God disappears and therefore, the concept of devotion is suppressed. Such people have become atheists. The so called theists exhibit over development of devotion related to the existence of God basically due to the same requirement of need to take the help of God in their materialistic efforts to derive happiness in the world. Such need-based devotion is spontaneous and natural.

Spiritual preachers based on such need-based devotion can enjoy the spontaneous propagation of their knowledge and fame. But such need-based devotion is not true love to God and therefore God is displeased with it. The real devotion, which pleases God, is only reverse of this, which is the development of devotion in absence of any need from God. Such type of true devotion is opposite to the above spontaneous and natural devotion and therefore a special hectic effort (sadhana) is needed. Only a qualitative minority in the world can appreciate the spiritual preachers based on such devlopment of true devotion. Therefore, a true spiritual preacher will not aspire for fame of the majority, which is not actually possible. The natural tendency existing in the theory of evolution is inherent to the living beings and hence need based devotion appeared in the spiritual field also without any effort.

The theory of evolution proposed by Darwin is confined to living beings only. If you consider the evolution of the entire cosmos, Einstein?s theories are also to be considered. The science says that the cosmic energy in the state of invisible waves of high frequency is in space itself. The special theory of relativity proves that the space bends around the object and this shows that the space is nothing but finest form of energy. Hence, there is nothing like nothing (vacuum) even according to the latest science. Such space is the first primordial energy in the subtlest form and this is called as akasha. The visible effects of the primordial energy like light etc are denoted by the word Agni. Vayu (Air), apah (liquid) and prithivi (solid) represent the matter in the three states. From these five elements the life is evolved, which is the plant kingdom (Prithivyah oshadhayah ? Veda). Gradually the animal kingdom with the latest human being is evolved. This represents the energy, matter and awareness, which are gradually evolved one after the other. Such evolution is mentioned in Vedas (Akashat vayuh). Since the visible energy like light is produced after the existence of atoms only; the primordial energy, the gaseous state in which the atoms and molecules move freely and the visible energy like light are produced in sequence as per Veda (Vayoragnih). The final conclusion is that energy (primordial), matter and awareness are produced in sequence. Since the nervous energy or awareness is produced from the inert energy functioning in the nervous system by oxidation of oxygen gas, the gradual production of awareness from energy and matter is justified in Veda as well as in the theory of evolution in science. The formation of matter from energy is clearly proved by Einstein through the law of equivalence of mass and energy. Therefore, the theory of evolution proposed by Darwin associated with the Einstein?s theories will certainly prove the evolution of universe from the energy or space in sequential manner. But Veda mentions one more item indicated by the word Atman as the ultimate cause from which the primordial energy or space was generated (Atmana akashah? Veda). You cannot say that the word Atman means awareness here, because, awareness (purushah) is mentioned as the third generated product in the chain of evolution. A generated product in the chain cannot be the first ultimate cause.
November 27th, 2007, 02:52 PM
dattaswami

Quote:

........to answer questions like, how did the earth come to be, and how did people come into existence.Religion has a ton of pretty stories, but we have to accept science and arwins theory. They make a lot more sense than a guy in the sky saying zap. Oh, and then there was light.[/QB]

The first creation that came from God is space or inert energy. Akasa (space) and Tejas (inert energy) are one and the same because space is a form of inert energy only. Matter, work, light, heat, sound, electricity, magnetism and awareness are also other forms of inert energy. Our imagination cannot cross the limits of space. The link or process of production between God and space is also unimaginable like God. This link is beyond space and God is beyond this link. The space is called as Mahat. The link is called as Avyaktam which means unimaginable. The Parabrahman is mentioned as purusha. The Veda says that Avyaktam is beyond space and purusha is beyond Avyaktam (Mahatah paramavyaktam avyaktat purushah parah).

God is first. Space is second. Air is third. We can explain the generation of third from second, but not the second from first. Second and third are imaginable items. Space or energy became air. Air means atoms. This is energy condensing into matter. This process of condensation is explicable and debatable. This process is parinama or vivarta. If matter is different from energy only by quantitative way it is vivarta like water condensed to ice. Vivarta brings only physical difference. The parinama is qualitative difference like milk becoming curd. Before the creation of matter, only energy exists. If energy is condensed, it should be vivarta process only, which is physical. But if all the mater is energy only, how the qualitative difference came between items of matter? There cannot be qualitative difference between blocks of ice having various sizes. One block of ice may be more concentrated (or condensed) but it cannot bring a qualitative difference. But the qualitative difference between the milk and curd is practically experienced in the world. Milk and curd are also condensed products of same energy and may have quantitative difference. Thus this point of contradiction brings the unimaginability, which is the characteristic of God. Therefore, the presence of the unimaginable power of God (Maya) is everywhere in the world. The Gita says that this Prakruti is also Maya (Mayam tu prakrutim). Thus the entire world is affected by the hidden power of God (Maya), which is known by deep analysis.

When the energy and work are essentially same, the different quantities of energy-drops (electrons) giving rise to different properties mean different works of God giving rise to different properties. Here the wonder is that the working material and work are one and the same in essence. Therefore, the unimaginable God does wonderful works and His work it self is the working material. The work is power of God, which it self is the working material. All this creation is work without any separate working material because the working material itself is a form of work. According to science also, any material (matter) is a form of energy and work is also a form of the same energy. Thus, this wonder exists in science, which says that matter is a condensed form energy. For the process of condensation, space is required and the space should be different from energy for the process of condensation to take place. But space is a form of energy as per the special theory of relativity. In such case, how the energy is condensed? Because, space is also energy. This is another wonder. Like this, when this nature (Prakruti) is analyzed, it is a wonder (Maya) only as said in Gita (Mayam tu..). Thus, Maya becomes the inner substratum of the world. God is the substratum of Maya (Mayinam tu?Gita). Thus, God is the final substratum of this world. The generation of matter on condensation of energy and the transformation of matter in to energy by dilution are wonders in the context of space being the energy. Thus, the generation, maintenance on substratum and dissolution are works of Maya, which mean wonders of God. Such wonder is for souls only and is well known to God and therefore it is not a wonder to God. Thus, Maya is a logic or science for God, just like the nature is a logical science to the souls. It is only higher logic or super science of God which is above the level of souls.
November 27th, 2007, 02:53 PM
dattaswami

[quote]Originally posted by Snortsie:

Quote:

how do you know there is a lord?
I seriously doubt that "the lord" has ever .

If a student comes and asks the preacher ?What is God?? and the preacher says, ?God is Unimaginable?; then the student asks again ?How God created this world?? and the preacher says, ?The process of creation is unimaginable?; the student will think that the preacher does not know the answers for his questions and will leave the preacher. This is the practical problem in revealing the absolute truth. The preacher should say the answers in positive way and the answers should satisfy the logical faculty of the student. Now you should analyze the basis of such logical faculty of the student. The basis is the observation of this world containing all imaginable items only. Hence all his logic is based on the observation of the nature of imaginable items and the relationships between the imaginable items only. This means that the preacher should say that God is an imaginable item and the imaginable process of generation of the imaginable world from imaginable God is in imaginable way only. Every sentence of the preacher should be imaginable to the student and then only the student gets satisfied.

The introduction of the word ?Unimaginable? by the preacher leads the student to think that the preacher is ignorant. Hence to satisfy the student and to solve this practical problem, the preacher has to make certain assumptions and should preach about God through hypothesis only and not through real theory.

The reality is that the unimaginable God created the world through unimaginable way.

But to satisfy the student the hypothesis introduced here is that God is pure awareness. Here the infinite ocean of pure awareness is an assumption created because there is no proof of such ocean of awareness anywhere because you can find only the infinite ocean of inert energy. The infinite ocean of awareness is created by the preacher and such ocean charged by God can be treated as God Himself like the live wire treated as current. Now the student is satisfied.

Similarly, the creation of world from God should be also done through the imaginable way answering all the objections through imaginable ways only. This makes again the creation of another assumption for the process of creating the world by God. The assumption here is that a second unimaginable item called as the power of God is created which is modified into the world. Since the power is negligible, the world is negligible and maintains the existence of single God or Brahman. It is like the dream of a person created by the modification of the mind and the mind is negligible compared to the materialistic person. In course of time to satisfy the logic of students, changes in the hypothesis are made by Ramanuja and Madhva who introduced the assumption of a separate material, which is modified as the world without any connection to God.

The hypothetical assumptions can be varied for the sake of preaching the truth to the students in order to satisfy their logic developed from the observation of the world containing only imaginable items. This does not mean that the theories are different.

There is only one real theory that both God and the link between God and world are unimaginable.

But the preaching requires complete elimination of the word unimaginable and the whole preaching should continue with the assumptions of imaginable items and imaginable relationships between those imaginable items only. In such case all the assumptions are not true at all in the absolute sense. In such case you need not misunderstand that the three Acharyas are differing from each other with different theories of truth. The same truth is explained in different ways with different created assumptions of hypothesis for the sake of understanding of various types of mentalities of the students which are always based on the constant observation of imaginable items only (Ekam Sat Viprah bahudha vadanti?..Veda).

The final truth is known to Anjaneya who did not like to preach the truth through assumptions and hence kept silent in preaching. He showed the essence of all the divine knowledge through action (Karma) only because Karma can only be real and fruitful. His recognition of contemporary human incarnation and practical service to Him is the essence of the message of Anjaneya. For those who cannot accept the human incarnation, Shankara preached the divine knowledge with several assumptions and the most powerful assumption is that the soul itself is God. Shankara preached atheists and this powerful assumption attracted them to come and at least here the subject. All the Acharayas followed this method of preaching by assumptions to various levels of students who are based on the logic of imaginable items only.

[ November 27, 2007 10:54 AM: Message edited by: dattaswami ]