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Finally, a chronological list of events happens with all the facts. Please
people, read these things and KNOW that they are true.
This entire message should be used as a reference in the entire
Endyn/Atomic dispute. This is all FACT, and nobody can dispute the
content herein. NOBODY. The following is undisputed.
#1 Atomic established relationship with Endyn late 2000. Endyn then makes
Atomic a ?test? site for new products being released. The relationship is
solid.
#2 Endyn offers to build Atomic a motor that will ?bring Endyn? out into
the mass market. Endyn declares this in about January, 2001. A date is
set when to bring the motor out. It is the NHRA even in early April. In
Ennis Texas.
#3 Atomic is in AWE of Endyn because it was believed they had 25+ NASCAR
teams, F1, CART teams, NASA projects and had about 40 engine dynos. So
everyone at Atomic couldn?t wait to go visit Endyn and see this motor that
was offered.
#4 Atomic then purchases a CRX, custom everything and pays about $10,000
getting this car ready. That?s just on the car, not anything else?Endyn is
aware of the progress and the date is still set for April.
#5 Endyn calls Atomic on the Monday before the race and declares the motor
is already on the engine dyno and to come to Texas to put it in. This is
confirmed by several people at Atomic on Tuesday. Read this again, he told
US to come?.cause he was ready.
*NOTE: Endyn invited us, offered US the motor and asked us to come.
#6 Atomic arrives in Texas on Thursday morning at Endyn ?Larry?s
house?. Atomic was then informed that the motor?s crank broke because it
had no counterbalance weights and that it was 373 HP to the flywheel and
that the valves were 2 MM over. Kind of unbelievable, but yet, that was
stated to everyone present. It is stated to have blown up on
Monday. Atomic should have seen it right away, but we were still in AWE of
him. We should have remembered that on Tuesday he said everything was great.
#7 Atomic asks to use a welder and if Endyn has any at its facility. The
answer is that Endyn has plenty of welding equipment.
#8 Atomic asks if there is going to be a motor available for the race this
weekend and if Atomic should even ?try? to get things ready. Atomic was
informed that the motor would be ready Friday evening and that they could
not go to Endyn to do the work.
#9 Larry then calls a friend of his in Dallas that owns a shop and sends
Atomic over to this persons shop to work.
**NOTE: This person was NOT informed that Atomic was coming. It was last
minute. Larry just called this person last minute. We do not know why. He
knew Atomic was coming, at great expense, but yet when Atomic arrived, no
plans were in effect whatsoever. Kind of fishy. Why would he have no
plans for us? Yet he talked so big about how we were going to run the world
record this Saturday?
#10 Atomic then started to wonder?why no plans was made and asked to see
the motor that blew up or Endyn. Either one would suffice. Atomic was
told to go to this other shop and work, and that he had a lot of work to do
on this new motor that would be ready Friday.
#11 Atomic drives to Dallas area to work in this person shop. Atomic
arrives in this shop about 12 PM Thursday and nobody from Atomic has slept
at all in about 3 days. 3 days.
#12 Atomic has the Endyn race CRX ready to go and has brought along another
car, owned and paid for by a mechanic at Atomic. THIS 2nd car, ATOMIC did
not pay 1 dime on, and did not pay 1 dime to send it to Texas. This car
was paid for and hauled at the entire expense of the mechanic. So Friday
night late, the Endyn car is ready and we all STILL have not slept?just
working away. So Larry even mentioning this car is totally a diversion,
Atomic did not pay 1 cent toward it.
#13 We get the #2 car up on the dyno and it has a few problems. We are all
delirious tired from no sleep in more than 3 days, just a few minutes here
and there and a few of us are calling Larry every 30 minutes.
#14 Jeff gets in contact with Larry about 10:30 PM Friday night or
so. Larry confirms that he will call us in a few hours when we can go to
Endyn and put the motor in the car. Jeff gets off the phone all
excited. He states that the motor is almost ready and that it should be
around 2 AM or so. All of the Atomic Staff are witness to these words.
#15 2 AM, 3 AM, 4 AM, several people are calling Larry every 30 minutes,
leaving messages. No answer.
#16 5 AM, and the 2nd car breaks. The VTEC pin in the head that you need
to maintain oil pressure for VTEC to engage is not right and another one
cannot be located. Also of mention, the car has no oil pressure and the
Car was taken apart and the oil pump was replaced 2x that night. Everyone
is totally exhausted. I mean TOTALLY exhausted.
#17 About 8 AM turns around and everyone is starting to worry and everyone
is still calling Endyn. No answer, just leaving messages.
#18 About 10 AM rolls around and we talk to our pals at the race and they
say that Endyn is AT THE RACE!!!!! So we are all just totally in
disbelief. And we are let down and it?s like a slap in the face. Our pal
gets Larry on the phone and he doesn?t even say anything, he did not say
sorry, he did not offer any explanation. We asked him why he did not call
us and tell us anything and he was silent. Then we said we are just going
back to CA. And he said, and we quote??ok, bye?.
#19 half of Atomic goes back to CA, in disbelief. Jeff and our mechanic
with the 2nd car remain to talk to Larry.
#20 Larry offers Jeff a job at Endyn. Jeff accepts and makes preparations
to come back with his father to discuss the deal and to buy a house in
Texas. Jeff puts his house up on the market to be sold. Jeff tells
Charles that he needs to go back to Texas again to finalize
working. Charles in informed by Jeff that he will be leaving Atomic and
working for Endyn if the offer is good. Charles is very understanding but
can?t help but feel betrayed.
#21 Jeff arrives back in Texas with a full blown realtor and search for a
house with his Dad. Larry apparently finalized plans and wanted
Jeff. Jeff flies back home and gives Atomic back over to Charles. Jeff
then offers Charles the dyno to buy. Charles accepts. Charles and Jeff
are still good friends, just not as good as before.
#22 Charles, aware of exactly what Endyn ?is?, and takes action to never
do business with them again. Charles, in a smart move, calls Wiseco to
order some generic pistons that are similar to CTR pistons, they just fit
tight. Wiseco faxes over a pricing guide and the pistons are available to
Atomic if they do a buy in. Jeff is still under the ?status? umbrella, as
we like to call it and still thinks Endyn is real. ***NOTE: these are NOT
Endyn roller wave pistons. Wiseco is under contract with Endyn or whatever
you call it, to only sell those pistons to Larry. But Charles did not
order those pistons, he ordered different pistons. And Wiseco will sell
you, Charles, or any other shop Dome pistons for any car upon a buy
in. Legal, Ethical and now that you all know the truth, it?s exactly what
Larry does. He buys Wiseco pistons and puts his name on them. Only one
thing, Atomic is not going to put their name on the dome pistons they want,
because were not claiming to ?design? them, merely use them.
#23 Jeff flies back to Texas at the request of Endyn again, to help for a
NIRA race, but Endyn does not answer the door for Jeff and ignores every
single call by him, he was there for 5 days. Jeff is distraught and comes
back home to a gang of pissed people?us?.
#23 Jeff gets back to CA and calls Larry on the phone. We don?t know what
exactly was said, but Jeff was just distraught for a week and did not even
show up at work for a long time. When one of us talked to him, he was in
tears. Apparently, he had been sucked for information then thrown
away. Jeff apparently, from our conversations with him was just
emotionally crushed and mad at himself that be believed in Larry then found
out it was all a lie. I mean, damn, I feel for him. He believed in Endyn
more than any of you, way more. Jeff used to get in borderline fist fights
with people backing up Larry. Jeff has hundreds of enemies now because of
Larry. I mean people that hate Jeff because of Endyn. And now Jeff just
goes around and tells people what a fool he was and to forgive him. So
please people, if any of you didn?t like Jeff for pressing Endyn so much,
please forgive him. He meant well, but like thousands of people right
now?he was sucked in?We like to think of it as ?texas fever? All the cults
are from there, and mean David Caresh, a lunatic, had tons of followers and
he was a total fraud. Sound familiar? Remember, just because you believe
it, just does not make it true.
#24 In conversations with Charles, Larry states that Jeff was thrown away
because ?anyone associated with Charles could never work around
here?. Charles feels pity for Jeff and lets him stick around and work the
dyno until he can find another job.
#25 Atomic receives many, many phone calls from people around the industry
and from other racing circuits that have been in the game since the
70?s. (NASCAR). Hint hint.
These people give Atomic the information and sources they needed to prove
what they already knew. Phone numbers were called to verify, documents
passed, and all in all..all assumptions were correct.
This is where all the lies were uncovered that make perfect sense.
Now, this is the scary part. Especially to all fans of Endyn. Here is
information you all need to know.
? Endyn is Larry?s house. It is run, solely out of his house, and
there is no other facility. Do not believe anything you hear to state
otherwise. The man even posted pictures on his web site trying to prove it
existed but further proved it does not exist. Notice he took a ?key?
picture down in the last few days of those first pics? Why? Because if
you study the picture?it is absolutely clear. Endyn ports heads in his own
garage, pistons are kept on shelves and on the floor throughout the house,
kamikaze headers are all stacked up in the living room, and there must have
been 20-30 heads in the garage. No blocks though to be seen?.do you know
why? Because when the people from Atomic asked about the cranks being
reduced it was stated by you know who that he used a ?local machine shop?
to do all his block work. A local machine shop folks. So know that you
are being cheated and that all the work you are paying for is not done by
Endyn, but rather some is done by a machine shop. Do you feel cheated
yet? Wait, there is more. Furthermore, all pistons are sanded down in his
garage, and one of our mechanics states that he was given lessons in his
garage. And was given instruction on how he goes about porting heads, with
a hand held porting bit. ?hand held?.
? More on this supposed motor that was supposed 373 at the
flywheel. We all asked several questions about this motor. And answers
were given. The main line was about the individual throttle bodies. Endyn
stated they were ?custom? Endyn ITB?s and that they had an adjustable
plenum. Wow, that sounds great. It was also stated the valves were 2 MM
over. Is that even possible? We don?t know because we never say any
evidence of it. But what Endyn does not know is that we saw the head and
the ITB?s. That?s right. We saw them. Our mechanic clearly saw it. And
it was a B16A head, and it had normal Honda valves in it, but it had TWM
Throttle bodies?no surprise, we have already been lied to 100+ times.
? Here is what is shocking. That you all need to think about. I
mean, you really need to think about this one. You see, Endyn is at
Larry?s house. This is undisputed. No matter how much you love the man,
you cannot refute this. BUT, here is what you need to think about?.you
see?on his boards?he claims to be testing products and dynoing motors all
the time, and designing new things?.right? You have all read it. But, he
owns not 1 dyno, nothing. He does not have a flow bench at his house, no
dyno?s, nothing. So how is he doing all this research and all this design
work if he has no test bed to prove what he designed works? The answer is
he cannot. Ever wonder where he gets numbers like 355 and such? Ever
wonder why he says certain headers are better than others? Ever
wonder? Well, wonder no more, because its make believe. I know it?s hard
to believe that a man some of your respect so much is a phony, but he owns
no dyno?s and there is no Endyn except his house. There used to be, as you
might have guessed, but not anymore. You see, all that is known about
Endyn is in the magazines back in 1986 when the NASCAR guys like Glidden
cam out and stated ?we are a bunch of idiots? for buying heads from
there. And then in 1987 Endyn drops off the face of the earth??.No
shock?because all those guys who he ?claimed? was winning with his
heads?came out with the REAL people that were making heads for them?and the
real people who were porting heads for those teams were infuriated. It?s
that simple. Because, if you brag that you make Dale Earnharts motor and
Jeff Gordon?s, eventually those guys are going to here that some crazy guy
is taking credit for somebody else?s work. And then that person gets a bad
rep. Well?.its exposed now?and everybody that comes to Atomic is informed
about this bad rep, this liar, this fraud and knows the truth about
him. What is the truth?
? Endyn sent Atomic a ported Head with a valve job. After all these
lies were exposed, Atomic took apart that head and examined every inch of
it. Atomic was told that the valves were modified and had special work to
them. They were totally stock, no such work. Atomic was told the valve
guides were reworked. They were totally stock, no such rework. Makes you
wonder. If this guy is lying to us about work he gave us when we were on
good terms with him?are you really getting what you pay for? Its hard to
believe anything. If you get any work done there, please, send it out and
have it inspected. We also found used bearings in a block from
Endyn. Used bearings? Well, that?s understandable, the machine shop isn?t
Endyn, it?s a separate company.
? It is that all this man Endyn does is network with different
companies, like WIseco, Eagle, kamikaze, Bosch, etc and sells them under
the ?endyn? name. And, with all these people out there believing the lies
that he does NASCAR teams, SCCA teams, CART teams, NASA projects and all
that other baloney, Endyn receives a status that is very highly
elevated. I mean that is why Atomic did business with him in the first
place?because they believed that the man was so great, so genius, so
awesome to work with NASA?wow, we want to sell this guys stuff. Well,
people, it?s not his stuff, it?s just a mix of companies that he
distributes for. And porting?
? Well, he already gave Atomic every single secret and part to a B20
and Atomic made about 230 HP at the wheels with it. This was entirely an
Endyn motor. And frankly, the 230 figure is not very great, it?s just
good. So we contend that Larry ports good heads. But, several other shops
around us, and we mean several have B20 VTEC?s with much lesser cams in
them that makes 265 at the wheels. And these have no Endyn parts. So we
were kind of disappointed with the 230, but it seems that we have high HP
all motor compared to any other Endyn customer all motor. So far.
? So people, we now know exactly what happened, and in what
order. You see, you need to review the list, because he invited us to TX,
he offered the motor to US, he told us what to do, then he screwed us. Not
even a warning?just screwed?and this was weeks before anyone called
Wiseco. And weeks before any other accusation. You see, after Atomic got
back from TX, they knew what a fraud this guy was so just took action to
just go direct and get similar pistons, legally and ethically, cause it?s
the same thing Larry does. And don?t say nobody else is allowed to buy
Wiseco pistons. That is not fair.
? So are you guys seeing the full picture? How is this stuff all
getting developed with no facility to research in? How are these motors
being spun to 13,000 RPM and making 355 at what dyno? And how come nobody
on this planet can show a chart or back that up from seeing it? He has no
facility, which means he has to do it in town at another dyno place, not
owned by him?.but he is not?because we already checked all that out. So
now you guys all know what?s going on?.
? Every single post referring to anything being tested, dyno?d
whatever is just a blatant lie in order to gain him status and gain him
sales. I mean, dang, you post up you make 355 Hp at the wheels all motor
and your going to generate some headwork sales and some piston sales. But,
since it?s not true and there is no such motor in existence, nor has there
ever been, it is called Fraud. He is elevating his status to a level to
you people where you think he is 100 xs more than he really is. And you
are paying him money, and he is making money off all these lies. It?s
totally criminal and its funny that Atomic is the bad guy for telling the
truth.
? Atomic was so mad at first, that you have to understand where
somebody like Mike, a red blooded American, can just get flaming pissed off
over all this deception, fraud and lies. I mean, what if Atomic lied to
you and fooled you into spending 20K plus on some bet on a motor that never
existed? Would you be mad also? What would you do? Well that?s how it
happened. Totally inexcusable.
? This story is what you need to read again, and it is what you need
to know. Because all this man does is elevate his status so that you think
he is so great. Because that is what generates money folks. And he is
making a killing off of all of you believing in all this deception. And we
love the way he uses reverse psychology and just mocks or makes fun of the
accusations we make. He cannot refute any claims we have folks. Not one
of them. There are thousands of you out there. You guys should have
laughed when he posted SCANNED pictures from 20 years ago up to prove that
Endyn exists outside of his house. Why would he post up a ton of newly
taken DIGITAL pictures like he does all the time, and then put up scanned
pictures from an album he has from 20 years ago to prove that something
exists? You guys are too smart to fall for that. He even took 1 major
picture down because he realized that you can prove that pic is near 20
years old.
? And some of you applaud him for ?starting? out of his
garage. Folks. This man ?Started? in a shop, and ended up back in his
garage. Not the other way around.
? And also, for you people keeping track, he lives with his parents
still. And actually the maturity is apparent when he throws a temper
tantrum about small things on his site once in awhile.
? Port heads to within .001 with your hands? Can I get a count of
who actually believes that?
? And lastly, the real quake on the Richter scale. Did you know what
anyone that does business with Endyn out of Larry?s house is dealing with a
company that operates illegally? Yes, Endyn is an illegal company and the
proper authorities have been contacted. It won?t be in business out of his
house much longer. Because guess what folks?
YOU CAN?T RUN A BUSINESS LIKE HIS OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. IT?S AGAINST FEDERAL
LAW.
Wow, that last one should really grab you. If it was legal, hell, everyone
wouldn?t need to lease commercial space would they? This guy is exposed
and he is in trouble. Now that everyone knows they were just sucked into
all these lies and believed this outrageous, elevated status just to make
money? ?everyone that does the research on this man can only have 1
outcome?. scammed. Ask yourself if you would have bought anything from
this person if he was an average Joe blow that lives with his
parents? Probably not. I now, its hard to admit you all got sucked into
all the status lies, but hey, you can?t change the facts. Atomic
respectfully apologizes for offending anyone with any posts, we were just
totally outraged at the lies and deceit and fraud. We are sorry; we hope
this new message is more on your guy?s level. I wonder what all these
followers of Endyn are going to say about him running his business
illegally currently. I can?t wait to see the response to that??he didn?t
know better right?
Also, this list is very short, we have at least 20 other items of proof to
show the lies and fraud if need be. Status sells. And boy are people
buying the lies. Somebody gets richer at the expense of lies. Bad business.
This episode is closed. Thank you all for your time in reading this large
post. But this post is for all the honest people in the world. The people
who deserve to know. These are the facts, they are undisputed, we have
several eye-witnesses to any account you want to contest.
Thank you.
Atomic Performance
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ohhh damn........ive waited for almost 2 years to see the shit to finally hit the fan........
guess the day has come
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FINALLY THE TRUTH HAS COME OUT! I LAUGH AT ALL YOU DUMB ASSES THAT PAID THIS RETARD MONEY.
THANK YOU ATOMIC PERFORMANCE!!!!
------------------
92 Chevrolet Corvette LT1
00 Acura 3.2 TL
98 Honda Accord EX-V6
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Wonder if Atomic can explain the following post, posted by Jeff (from Atomic)on the Endyn board on 04/09/2001.
NOS was used, but does it really account for claims made?
---------
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We ran the car at the track for the first time since the modification. Before we sent the blower to Larry, it boosted 10 PSI
AFTER Larry touched it, with his Blower modification...which i believe was a complete rework of the inside of it, it now puts out around 17 PSI...
Well...that motor also has Endyn 9.7:1 Pistons in a Type-R block. And Boy does that thing make the power now.
It has 450+ HP to the wheels now..and that thing actually spun the tires on the dyno after 8k RPM..strapped down tight too. Pulls hard all the way to 9500 RPM.
We tried a variety of cams on it. And so you folks are aware, the GSR cams made 2% more power than the Type-R cams.
So folks, just so you know, the Endyn modification to your Jackson Supercharger is VERY worthwhile.
the car did:
10.45 @ about 138
And it weighed 2100 lbs. It had a wheelie bar on the back also.
Runs better than ever now.
Thanks.
Jeff
Visit my web page....we do it ALL.
www.atomicperformance.com www.importreview.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Please, please, please, someone lock this thread.
This is a tech board, not a billboard.
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I'd have to side with Atomic on this one.
They post a fact laden, specific enema of Larry and he responds by mentioning "certain people" and throwing insults about the Atomic crew's hygiene and appearance?
I used to think Enyn was bullshit. Then I moved to neutral territory. Now I'm back in the BS camp.
I've always wondered why people who send away a blower with whatever realistic size pulley on it and get one back with a 3" pulley are amazed when they see huge boost increases.
------------------
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.937 @ 101.41mph (at 6psi)
My JRSC Install Site
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I'd have to say that the worst is what 11psiGSR posted about his motor. He had it fully built by Endyn and he is FAR from happy.
I am kind of ambivalent on the story related by Atomic. I mean their dynos were unbelievable, and I want to put their story in the same category.
------------------
2000 SC'd GSR
[email protected] best before the blower.
www.strng1dah.homestead.com
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by strng1dah:
I'd have to say that the worst is what 11psiGSR posted about his motor. He had it fully built by Endyn and he is FAR from happy.
I am kind of ambivalent on the story related by Atomic. I mean their dynos were unbelievable, and I want to put their story in the same category.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have to agree with you there. Since many of us saw his pics and build-up right here and wondered what happened.
But, I'm certainly not giving Atomic the benifit of the doubt without some futher explanation [like responding to what I posted above from Jeff]
If they wish to respond that Jeff was confused, and can't read dyno numbers or "even" a boost guage, fine. Then what motivated them to go to Texas? There's more fishy smell than Endyn around here.
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This is an interesting post indeed. I myself am confused but can understand how this has happened.
Larry has been a good person to talk to and has shown trust to me that made me believe everything he's ever told me. Guys, I never paid a dime for anything he's sent me until i've had it in my hands. Now that may not be saying much but not one other shop I know of will do this. I'm talking a few hundred dollars in products per item.
However, from the various customers that have shown no gain from products and the fact that nothing I did was "revolutionary" or strictly of endyn design proves my trust came from a nice person, not proof in the product.
The story above seems to well thought out to be fabricated to me. This especially from what was the most supportive company of ENDYN products. My best wishes to the guy out of a job and to the guys that stayed up days only to get screwed. You guys deserve better and I hope things go your way soon.
I expected more from Larry. Even if his claims are blown up a bit, I'd have hoped a nice person wouldn't have BS'd this badly.
-Silvino
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No comment.. but my eyes sure do hurt after all that reading http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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I think its 450hp at the crank with 75shot nos. There was another post of that a few few months ago. Remember 17PSI a lot of boost, lets just say you get 10psi per pound of boost. you get 170hp increase. Okay okay, you say that its not as hot as before. Well, looks its got a 75shot NOS to cool shit down. So gaining 280hp is not all that hard.
Like I have been saying long ass time ago, how do you know if the modify JRSC is worth is when they equip it back with the 3inch pulley.
Also I dont know if you all recall, but 11psiGSR said something about Larry telling him to try to tune his car with the butt dyno??
I am guess that is how Larry dyno tune his shit.
1) Butt Dyno
2) Sniff in exhaust (nose) to determine a/f ratio.
3) Finger on end of fuel line to determine fuel pressure.
4) Drive up hill to determine torque.
5) blows air out of his ass for benchflow testing.
Am I missing anything else guys?
Also, he bans people that does not agree with him at his message board. Why do you think he does that? He does that so the brainwashed followers does not have a chance to look at reality. That and because if you dont agree with him, you are not his ideal cult material. LOL
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I have been watching all of this with great interest, and will offer my comments if anyone cares.
On a smaller scale, my experience ran parallel to 11PSIGSR's. I was sooo psyched to discover I could get the M62 blower for my B18b, when all along it was preordained that I would be stuck with a M45. So I went and ordered the TypeR kit, shipped it off to Endyn, and $200 later it came back (along with the Bosch pump and a J&S).
Just to qualify all of this, I was (and continue to be, although Im learning) a total neophyte to this. My situation was not helped by having an installer 2.5 hours away (6 round trip realistically) who claimed all sorts of credentials including a string of JRSC installs. And to his credit, TOO was very supportive initially in phone calls and email, despite my obvious ignorance to the topic.
So lets get to the chase: The TypeR blower bolted right up, nice machine work (and reversible !) but the installer hits a few snags. Stupid things, but they dragged out the install, did nothing to improve my dealings with my installer, and drove up the cost. Needed to get a Type R throttle cable, FPR, and different belts (obvious, but what size ?). None of this was mentioned. My installer was unable/unwilling to do the Bosch pump, so that had to go back and be replaced with the Walbro 342. TOO graciously took it back, although I suspect this was the begining of the end (more on this later).
Also, at one point got a zinger of an email from Dug (Doug ?) saying how I should shut up and tell the truth about Endyn. All along I explained to anyone who read above a 5th grade level that I was only getting the manifold rework, not the infamous blower rework. It was quite a shock, but I glossed over it... more power was coming !!
So, so far going with the TypeR kit vs the LS kit has cost me over $500, factoring in the machine work, shipping, extra parts, and labor. Im already stressed the hell out, but it will be all worth it, because I have a M62, right ? Should be as good as a GSR, at least up to 6800 RPM, right ? Forgot to mention, did a pulley swap to 4.0" down from the 4.2" that came with TypeR originally.
Well, the dyno told otherwise. 147 whp and 140 trq, with AEM intake and stock exhaust. Not much better than the M45 kit ! WTF !! Email TOO, says I gotta get a exhaust to make it breathe better, I can see the logic in that. Also got a zinger of a comment about not being honest and using the 4.0" pulley. Again, I glossed over it. It's all about the dyno.
So it's more difficult than Chinese algebra to find a suitable exhaust setup for a sedan (cat, cat-back, etc) but finally get it on (Kami 2.5", CarSound 94006, USDM TypeR catback).
Come January 2001, I want to plan the "next step". Performance is OK (not great), but my gas mileage is shitty (20 MPG) and since the dyno was a disappointment (relatively speaking). I begin emailing 2-3 polite and detailed messages, spaced about a week apart. Nothing. Also wanted to get the stepper pulley, since that seemed to be the most sensible way to up the boost. Separate messages, WTB STEPPER PULLEY in the subject line, nothing. Meantime people on this board talk about getting their stuff in a few days. At this point I consider myself blacklisted. Fortunately someone one this board (who had better not come forward lest they get blacklisted too) hooked me up with one.
So whats the point here ? I was offered visions of keeping up, if not surpassing the performance of JRSC'ed GSRs and TypeRs (superior torque and gearing ?). Hasnt happened - not yet, if at all. But I have spent about $2000 more than I planned to (the above items, plus pieces for 9 psi and exhaust).
Was I naive and stupid ? Yes. Have I learned a lot, and realize there tons more to learn ? You betchya.
I may not even make 9 psi, on count of the pulley ratios on my unusual setup (yeah a boost gauge is going on soon).
I am fortunate that I have a good job, understanding friends, and not accountable to a spouse or family yet, otherwise Id be a lot more pissed.
Keeping my fingers crossed for the upgrade...
------------------
total sleeper
JRSC M62 @ 6psi, Kamikaze + 2.5" cat-back, J&S Classic, T.O.O catch can, etc.
10 psi coming soon
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Did you guy's read what happen to our fellow member 11psiGSR? He got royally screwed:
Originally posted by 11psiGSR <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Up until this point, I have totally avoided any comments, reguardless of how frustrating it was. But with this post, I feel I must say something. I am sure this will probably be erased very soon.
For those of you who do not know me, let me give you a quick background. First off I am not some "young punk kid" trying to stir up a pot. I am 25+, married, own my own home, and work as a professional sales trainer. When I have a chance, I spend my weekends tinkering with my car, like most of you. I say this only to establish credibility. Please do not flame what I am about to tell you. I only hope to prevent others from what I have experienced, and nothing more.
In July of last year I contacted ENDYN about rebuilding my B18C1 from my Integra. I had spoken to many other engine builders, and was presently suprised to speak with TOO. He seemed very knowledgable about Honda's, and vehicles in general. He spoke of his involvement in NASCAR, among other racing orginizations. He spoke of his shop, and made reference to 40+ engine dyno's, some of which had motors on them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I was confident in his abilities, and decided that even though this was well over my preconcieved budget, I would go with his services.
On September 22nd, 2000, I drove the 12 hour trip to ENDYN's home base (out of respect, I
will not say where they are), with my best friend, and "crew chief" Jason. We arranged to meet with him at his house. I was a little curious as to why he would have me meet him at his house, but I had confidence at this point, so I did not let it concern me. We met on the morning of Saturday, the 23rd at approximatley 9am. I was "giddy as a school girl" to meet Larry. I was expecting to follow him to his shop, but instead he wanted me to offload the motor there at his house, stating they would load it into another truck later and take it to the shop. When I asked why we were not going to the shop, he stated "I do alot of top secret work for racing teams. As part of my agreement, I am not allowed to bring anyone to the shop, so that their privacy is protected". I was dissapointed, but understood the merit behind it. We went over the financials, he told me he expected to have the motor done on 10/31, I gave him a little over a 50% deposit, and after our fairly short (2 hour or so visit), my buddy and I were back on our way home.
Over the next month or so we stayed in contact about once a week. Towards the end of October it was becoming apparent that the motor would not be completed. Although it was dissapointing, I was not upset. A week before Thanksgiving I recieved a phone call from TOO asking if he could keep it for a week or two longer to dyno tune the motor, and break it in for me. I excitedly agreed, although I was dissapointed that it would not be ready for several more weeks. Later that month TOO told me my motor did 319hp @ 7000 rpm. He wanted to tinker around and find his goal of around 350hp. I agreed, yet again.
Around the first week of December I was beginning to become frustrated, although I promised myself I would hold it inside because he seemed to be doing so much for me. Finally on December 13th, he called and said it was ready. Although he had not reached his goal of 350hp... He said he did reach 345hp, which I was happy with.
Rather than having the motor shipped (which would have taken about a week) I decided to drive back to ENDYN and make the 12 hour one way trip, this time with a different friend. We met with TOO on December 14th at about 1:00pm in the afternoon, once again at his house. When we arrived, the motor was already out front, crated and waiting on us.
Here is where things start to get uneasy. We talked for several minutes about different things here and there. TOO and I went inside the house so that I may pay the balance that was owed to him. To my surprise there wer 2 items that were added to the motor that we had not agreed upon. In fact, one of which we never discussed. Period. The items totalled about $1200 more than I was expecting, on top of an already $7000+ bill. I was very, very upset, although I did not express much of this to him. He claimed I told him to add them. Believe me when I say, I would remember
adding an additional $1200 to a bill.... Wouldn't you? Luckily I have a very understanding wife, and although she was quite displeased, I was between a rock and a hard place. I am 12hours from home, and it would have been a major project for the motor to be uncrated, and to remove the items (Clutchmasters flywheel and Moroso oil pan). So I gave in, accepted the bill, and loaded up the motor for the drive home. Still very upset. We arrived back home on Friday, December 15th. That weekend my friends and I reinstalled the motor back into the car. Here it was, time for the cermonial "turning of the key". Remember how nervous you were? So was I. After a couple of tries, she fired up for about 3 seconds, at which point the timing belt flew off. My heart stopped. OMG! I was imagining bent valves, and other scary thoughts. I called TOO immediately. He gave
me a few quick tips. We slid the belt back on, checked for tension, and tried again. 5 seconds later, it slipped off again. Long story short, the motor ended up having an incorrect water pump.A water pump from an RS/LS motor to be exact. Apparently these have 3 less teeth on them, which would not allow the timing belt to tension properly. Although TOO did help diagnose the problem,
I was curious as to how this "slipped" (no pun intended) by him, especially considering that motor supposedly spent 10 hours on the engine dyno. When asked he stated he had decided to put a new timing belt and water pump on after it spent time on the dyno, and one of his shop flunkies must have put the wrong pump back on. He overnighted me another water pump. When it arrived, I placed it on the car. It began leaking immediatley after coolant was put in. I ended up going to Honda and buying a new one, even though the one I had originally put on the motor, only had about 6k miles on it. All told this ordeal took almost a month to overcome.
Once the water pump issue was fixed, we then had a HUGE driveability issue. The car was highly unreliable and would not maintain idle. After many phone sessions, TOO decided I needed to purchase a new FPR. I went with the Vortech SFMU, since he had the same one, thinking it would make our tuning sessions easier. After another month or so of tuning on the weeknds, it seemed we were getting nowhere. The car was sluggish. It was far slower than it was before, and much less reliable. We spent till March of this year tinkering with it on the weekends. TOO was
beginning to become less and less accesible, and semed more and more frustrated with me.
I decided that a phone conference was in order. I was respectful of how busy TOO was during theday, so I arranged a time, which he chose, on an evening were my best friend and I could discuss things together. I was prepared with very detailed notes about what we had done to the car, settings, etc. I also came prepared with any changes we had made, and their affect on the vehicles performance. While on the phone with TOO, I took copious notes. Making sure every detail was not missed. (Hey, it had been 4 months since I had the motor back... this was getting old). During this conversation he also spoke of his shop, yet again. He talked of how he spent so much time there, he had a room above in a loft with a shower so he would not have to make the drive home. He even went into details about how cold it was, and how he was so excited to have heat in there finally. We spoke of his ties with NASCAR, and the unfortunate Dale Earnhardt tragedy. He told stories of how much testing he has done over the years and how many of his dyno's run constantly for his research. Overall Jason and I spent well over an hour and a half with TOO on the phone.
We went back to the car and began looking in the areas TOO recommended. To my surprise we
found something we had not expected. My exhaust was a measly 1 7/8 in diameter. Not nearly sufficient enough for the 15lbs of boost we were running, TOO agreed.... Laughingly. I contacted him several weeks later to order a Thermal 3" exhaust from him. He quoted me a price, and stated that it would arrive in one week. The next Tuesday I phoned TOO to confirm the order. My best friend was going to schedule time off work to help, so I wanted to ensure it would arrive by Friday. Once again, he confirmed it. Something did not seem right, but I ignored it yet again.
On Thursday evening I decided I wanted my mother to stop by and make sure the exhaust was put in the garage, the last thing I needed was it to turn up missing. Rather than bother TOO, I decided to call Thermal to get the UPS tracking number. When I phoned them, they said they had no record of the order. In fact TOO had not ordered anyhting from them in quite a while. I was highly upset. He was obviously lying to me. I tried to phone him that evening, but here was never an answer.
The next day, I phoned several times until I finally got him about 1pm. I explained the situation VERY camly, and did not express that I was upset. I told him there must have been a mishap, and asked if he would phone them to straigten it out. He agreed.
Within 5 minutes he called back. He stated they had sent the exhaust to his address, and not mine. I found this odd as well, especially considering the gentleman at Thermal stated ENDYN had "not ordered anything from them in quite some time". But before I could reply, TOO stated that I "Had
broken the golden rule".... At first I thought he was joking. I laughingly replied.... "What golden rule is that?". TOO exclaimed "You sre to never call the manufacter!". I apoligized, and explained to
him I was unaware of this "rule". The only thing we had agreed upon was that I would not release pricing thaqt he had given me... which I had not.
At this point he turned ugly. He began swearing. "F*CK this! D@mn you that! You F*ucking kids in Honda's! I havent slept in 24 hours, I have restrictor plates that need to be ready for Talladega..." This continued for about 30-45 seconds. My wife was in my office at the time, and could hear everyword he was yelling. I said nothing. Not one word. Then CLICK. He hung up. My wife looked at my face, she could tell I was upset... and needless to say, so was she. I camly picked up the phone and called him back. I said TOO "I would really like to talk to you about
this". He started in again. Yelling obscenities, screaming hollering. Would not let me say a thing.
Finally I hung up. I was crushed at first. I had spent over $10k with this guy, and he does this. For what? Nothing. That was the last phone conversation I had with him.
So..... Where am I today? I have a car that is no better than it was before. It is sluggish. Even after $10k+. This is including the TOO supercharger modifications, to which I can tell no difference. The guy who built the motor claimed he has this huge shop with 40+ dyno's. Now he tells everyone "All Endyn engineering, testing, fabrication, and manufacturing has always been done in my house and it's been that way for 27 years. Any buildings that have "supposedly" housed Endyn facilities were and are purely figments of others imaginations." Well TOO... it's a figment because that is what you are telling people. I believed you, and now I feel like a fool. So where are all these dyno's? How aout the stories about NASCAR? How about the room you told us you built above the shop, just so you would not have to drive home?
If I had been told the truth up front, you would not see this post. I would not have cared that my motor was built in somebody's back yard. But I was lied to. Just like many others. I have spent $10k+ of my hard earned money, and was given a promise of a motor that had 345hp. To his date, I have yet to see that power.
If you feel you have been a victim of fraudulent representation you have many legal rights. See http://www.ifccfbi.gov
Thank you for your time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
------------------
Mods
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How does anyone of you feel about it now? Still Endyn Larry believer? SUCKERS...........
I feel for 11psiGSR, I too have been a victim of motor rebuild scam. sigh....... But at least I got the beat the crap out of the guy who built my motor.
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This is sad that the average "hotrodder" is getting burned by Larry and ENDYN just
because they do not know how to make the most of their products.
I was burned by Larry ever since I tried to get more information about his supercharger than was posted on the web site. I let them know how rude and basically how much of an
ASSHOLE ENDYN can be just because I asked a couple of questions about the sc
kit???
I posted about 3 months ago what I felt about Larry and his *strange* attitude on how he deals with us import racers. Larry is kind of like a Dr.Jykle/Mr.Hyde of sorts and that it takes a LOT to get on his good side but VERY very little to piss him off. I give him slack based on his cancer but he still is *EVIL* in my own book. If you just buy his products that are available and somehow get his headwork you are fortunate but otherwise stepping into other territory is *VERY* risky.
I thought all this time people with the whole ENDYN setup were keeping the track times and dyno #'s their secret so they can be on top of the competition but after the past week of all the horror stories I fully understand why there is only Atomic's not so impressive figures.
One final *fact* is Larry is opened minded to technology but when it comes to people he is very sexist and discriminatory. I don't know if it's because of growing up in Texas that had/has a history of racism or that he believes him and his dad are some kind of superhuman. I give him much credit for his
profile and acomplishments (if they are true), such as sponsoring NIRA and the free
advice on his web site, but on a person to person basis he is too old fashioned and
treats us like we don't know "shit from shinola". It's a dam shame that some grumpy old man can't get along with us younger car heads unless you regergitate every single advice on his site and praise him as if he were the automotive god!! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
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If it is indeed a scam, he must be one damn good one! I've always "heard" of what his mods can do...but NEVER..ever any proof. If he is so good at what he does, why doesn't he show some proof to the world..it would only make him looks better. On the other hand, I must say TOO knows his shit...I learned a lot of him as far as tuning tips etc...
Anyhow, if you're a hard core believer, all I have to say is don't be so myopic in what you see...have an open mind and use your judgement. After all, it's your money that you're sending out...not mine.
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Good Lord. This really has made it to every nook and cranny of the net. ENDYNE is a fraud.... food for thought. I may not believe it, but I won't do business with him because of it. It's not worth risking my money.
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I bet Stroker and Beaver (old HB posters who were major assholes) were really Larry.
Greg
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I was thinking about to ship my blower to ENDYN when my car does his winter-sleep, but after I read this I decide that Larry will never see my blower!
peace and out.
------------------
Supercharged ITR?98 @ 5.5psi
BTC unit, Apexi VAFC, K&N short ram intake, skunk2 cam gears, Kamikaze 2.5", ceramic header, Thermal 3" exhaust, RC 310 injectors, Cartech FMU, AEM FPR
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...622&a=12515817
http://www.geocities.com/autitr/myin...l?991952862150
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holden:
I bet Stroker and Beaver (old HB posters who were major assholes) were really Larry.
Greg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah thats what I always thought. They acted all very much the same.
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Can someone look up the IP addresses? I don't know how this board works. It should be the same unless he uses a dial up.
It's too easy to be a troll though and just piss people off. Could be anyone.
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"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."
Drive it like you stole it.
If it isn't broken, fix it till it is.
http://www.hondaprelude.com/setups/s...gen=4&orderby=
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I have the ability to look up IPs and perform full trace routes down to physical city/ISP used. I would need to see at least one post from both so if someone has a link...
------------------
...Steven
HostBoard Administrator
Help support HostBoard by clicking on a banner today!
[This message has been edited by 1QuickSI (edited July 05, 2001).]
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I think Rafe traced them and they both originated in Texas.
Gee?
Greg
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I'll be in Ft. Worth next week. Perhaps I can snap some photos of the Endyn factory!
------------------
96 Integra B18B w JRSC@9psi, JR BTC, JR MAP Converter, Venom 270's, Walbro 342, DC 4-2-1, DC Catback, ST Rear Swaybar, etc.
-
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holden:
I think Rafe traced them and they both originated in Texas.
Gee?
Greg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm just curious..after a user logged on and posted...many weeks have pasted, how do you trace them? I mean all info are logged and saved for many years? It'd be insane to save them all...just curious..
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okay here are my endyn complaints:
Eagle rods, purchased from race engineering, not endyn ---
they were too big on the big end. they were mucho off.
But hey, like Larry said, it doesn't matter where they are fucking made (china or something), they are designed right, blah blah blah.
Bosch fuel pump from endyn:
I got it with that special machined fitting that only "they" provide. the fucking thing didn't even fit.
Piston rings:
well those may have been the only things that were okay, I guess. those were made in japan, so larry didn't make those for sure. he likes to contract out the cheap labor.
I know these are lame ass things, nothing compared to the others, but still I never really had a good experience with endyn. nor have I seen any proof of anything worthwhile!
my .02
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by randomwalk101:
I'm just curious..after a user logged on and posted...many weeks have pasted, how do you trace them? I mean all info are logged and saved for many years? It'd be insane to save them all...just curious..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No... Rafe traced them at the time the posts were made. I was about to get into a flame war with Beaver or Stroker and Rafe sent me a "heads up" email warning me that I was probably battling a troll on a mission. Because of that, I didn't waste my time on it.
Greg
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Yup I think MTRS the 1st, was indeed the 1st to call out Beaver. If you remember he asked him why was his title stated he was from california and he was dialing out from at TX IP. Hmmmm, ever since then I was kinda skeptical about the whole thing.
Considering we live about 10min from larry I knew he was big BS'er. But I never said anything because we were looked at someone who had crucified Christ. After all he is "God" right? huh.
art
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by randomwalk101:
I'm just curious..after a user logged on and posted...many weeks have pasted, how do you trace them? I mean all info are logged and saved for many years? It'd be insane to save them all...just curious..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As long as the post exists the system still has a record of the IP address being used. As for how long posts are kept that is up to the moderator.
In this case both IPs resolve. The first from Stroker goes back to Tulsa Oklahoma and the IP block is owned by Flash out of TX. The other by Beaver is also based out of TX and the IP is owned by @Home.
If your interested in figuring out what is where go to www.download.com and look for a program called Visual Route. It has a 30 day evaluation and is extermely helpful with stuff like this.
------------------
...Steven
HostBoard Administrator
Help support HostBoard by clicking on a banner today!
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When Larry posted about 11psiGSR this morning, didn't anybody catch the scam he was pulling on Thermal..
-Ryan-
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88 SC CRX Si:
Can you post a link to that? Browsing through the Endyn BBS makes me nauseous due to all the sycophants.
Thanks.
Greg
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 88 SC CRX Si:
When Larry posted about 11psiGSR this morning, didn't anybody catch the scam he was pulling on Thermal..
-Ryan-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
huh?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holden:
88 SC CRX Si:
Can you post a link to that? Browsing through the Endyn BBS makes me nauseous due to all the sycophants.
Thanks.
Greg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
TOO erased it. He was getting ripped apart by the replies. Ouch!
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Mods
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Uhhm how is that a scam ? The way I read it he was selling Thermal exhausts at or near cost, effectively screwing other Thermal dealers, but how does that shortchange Thermal ?
My take on it is that its part of the faith-building (brainwashing?) exercise. Do exactly as he says, dont question anything, or point out apparent contradictions, and (maybe) youll have a superduper Honda. And if you dont end up with one, it's coz you're [fill in the blank] (stupid, cheap, a pantywaist). In his eyes Im probably all three. For example, when I hear from people on this board and others that the Thermal 3" flows great, super quality, but is loud as shit, is that something I want on my car ? No. I'll sacrifice a few hp for (near) OEM sound.
I'll keep visiting the site and learn what I can, but the rose colored glasses have been off for a while.
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I dont' think 11psiGSR can get in here yet...I guess he is having problem as I have been having ..getting stuck at the Hostboard's intro screen....1QuickSI said it's probably the IP provider problem...I'm wondering how can this issue be resolve cuz a lot of people couldn't get in..
BTW, the only way I get in is through www.safeweb.com now...
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I didnt see larrys reply about why the exhaust was never ordered. what did it say?
Mac
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Just so I understand, if your from Ala. and come in here and state the facts your flaming someone. If your from anywhere else and state the facts, that's o.k. Lies, false hope, broken promises, we've heard this one before.
Great job of stating the facts, not that it will do any good on this board.It has been my observation that when you state facts about a "Host Board Hero" you will be the target of much verbal abuse.Lets see if what little support you have already gotten continues. Again, thanks for stating the facts.
P.S. Why do all these guys work out of their basements instead of a shop?
