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Just wanted everyone to know that in the
Sheperds Bush thread I posted some fresh videos of Virgil. You might miss 'em otherwise, which would be a shame since especially the first one is freakish.
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...c/f/609/t/4687
OR you can just check them out here:
http://www.sabian.com/sabiantalk/for...&enterthread=y
I don't know what to think. Virgil's playing has never really done anything for me. Does anyone else get the feeling that it sounds like a gummed up machine or wading through mud? That's the impression I get when he goes into beats, like the end of the first clip. It seems to be a common virgil-ism I do not like the sound of. The syncopations or modulations he commonly does don't come off as subtly or cleverly as someone like Vinnie.
We can't all sound like Vinnie...
though I wish I could...
I think you haven't heard Virg really bending it?
Some would say he even "leaves Vinnie behind" when he's really working it.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 01, 2005 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Jeppe Morgenthaler ]</font>
I like the vibe on the sound check jam. Thanks alot for posting that! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Although I wouldn't necessarily say that "conceptually" he is able to leave VC behind [I guarantee Vinnie can "hear" every bit of where Virg goes ;c)];with the exception that VC def does not do much of the heavy DB that Virg is capable of incorporating into his "polyrhythmic-modulation madness." VC, Weckl, & Den C have all copped to that. [img]wink.gif[/img] So, in that sense, I agree wif ya's... ;c)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 01, 2005 06:26 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>
Aside from who you like more and what style suits you. I do believe Virgil's polyrhythmic madness is more complex not that Vinnie does not understand it but his polyrhythmic concepts are LESS severe in their complexity. I think Virg, Marco, Lang and Mangini all have the greater physical ability to go deeper rhythmically, maybe many detest what they do I respect that, but their tools in that respect(interdependence concepts-polyrhythmic ideas) are more advanced and developed. Vinnie has openly said for MANY YEARS!! that Virg BLOWS! him away technically and creatively, I am not saying that he literally blows him away by leaving him(he uses the term figureatively is that a word?) in the dust but Vinnie has no problem acknowledging other's Greatness and he was one of the first here in the states to openly tout Virgil and it sure was not just for his feet.
Dig
True...some of Virg's patterns are pretty sick...& then he switches in mid-beat & plays the same pattern "leading" with the other side of the body [L/R, or top/bottom]. In this way he also is advanced beyond the others. But, perhaps in a musical context scenario, it might mean no more musically-speaking than anything VC or DW could do sometimes... ;c)
Debatably or otherwise, Virg is def one of if not the most technically sick drummer evar up to this point in time. No argument from me, there.
But we don't need to do that one again... ;c)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 01, 2005 06:24 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>
I wasn't disputing his technical ability, if that's what it sounded like. I just don't think he cuts it musically. I'm not impressed if someone can play a complex pattern leading with either side of their body, or flips from traditional to matched, spins his sticks a lot, or does silly rock-star cross-overs with his suspended toms. It doesn't change his lack of touch, feel, or crappy drum sound. I just don't think he "fits" into music. It's not enjoyable to listen to for me, and I'm not inclined to argue over my opinion, but I should still be able to state it. Don't get me wrong, he can play really fast bass drum stuff, and has some interesting concepts, but it seems like everytime he goes into a modulation or polyrhthm he just takes it and bludgeons us to death with it, rather than slip it in like a slick operator like Vince.
Oh well, maybe we'll start the old "maybe you don't get it" argument again. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First of all, I'm not familiar with Virgil Donati's playing, so forgive me if I offend anyone. These videos are the first I've ever seen or heard of him.Quote:
Originally posted by Digital Man:
I do believe Virgil's polyrhythmic madness is more complex
He's an incredible drummer, with excellent facility and VERY musical ideas - BUT- I don't understand why you guys are going on and on about his "POLYRHYHTMIC" brilliance. All I hear is the occasional 3 against 2 and 4 against 3. I'm not saying that he isn't GREAT, but there isn't any complex polyrhythmic stuff happening (in these videos anyway).
My favourite MUSICAL application of polyrhythms (5 over 3, 7 over 4, etc.) is Terry Bozzio's drumming on UK's Danger Money and Chad Wackerman's playing on Zappa's LSO recordings.
Check out Planet X or OTV, not Soul Sirkus to really hear Donati. Soul Sirkus is a straight ahead
rock band, doing a simple jam in this vid.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 01, 2005 08:20 PM: Message edited by: JDouglee ]</font>