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First of all get Big Band CDs
You could get the 2 burning for Buddy Cds, but beware of some players that don't really know how to drive a big band. Check out STeve Smith, Dave Weckl, Steve Arnold.
Get the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert Tape
Listen to buddy rich records, dvds! Benny Goodman etc
Gregg Bissonette's dvd also has some useful stuff.
Learn to read charts well
WElcome by the way [img]smile.gif[/img]
Sorry for what I'm about to say, because folks in here are hard headed, but I'm being honest, especially because I've seriously studied the art of big band.
The first thing you DON'T want, is the Buddy Rich Scholarship DVD. That's not real big band drumming. That's a bunch of fusion and session guys sort of playing big band. And even the jazz guys on that over play because they're trying cut each other. i.e Smitty.
And Gregg Bissonette is a great knowledgable drummer, but he's not great big band drummer in my opinion. He can cut it, but he's no Sonny Payne.
This is my 2 cents:
Check out Sinatra Live at The Sands.
Anything with Sonny Payne on it, or any Count Basie.
Any Woody Herman big band recordings. ANY Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Big Band. Any big band with Louis Bellson or Grady Tate.
Anything with Chick Webb. Or any newer big band recordings with Ed Shaunessy, Jeff Hamilton or Peter Erskine.
Also, if you have any questions, I highly suggest Steve Hass' board because he plays a ton big band with The Manhattan Transfer and is knowledgable in the style and he's great with answering in a timely fashion. Does Erskine have a forum?
Why people think big band music requires a lot of reading is beyond me. Most of the great Big Bang drummers couldn't read music. Including Buddy Rich.
Buddy's big band was his, so he had plenty of time to rehearse and probably was involved in the composing of it so he already knew it pretty well not requiring him to sight read.
This guy is joining a big band and he might have to read charts...if you sub in a big band your going to have to read your ass off....at BRMSC louis bellson was sightreading
I have to read charts in my school band, maybe not when im actually playing...but to learn the stuff...so you do have to be able to sight read from my experience
then again, what do i know..
Ed Shaughnessy wrote a big called Big Band Drummers' Reading Guide, which suggests that you do in fact have to be able to read charts in big band drumming situations... i think most big band type situations there will be at least a chart with the hits and accents or section figures, otherwise how would you know how make all the hits and stuff, quickly. Without having to listen to the band play first and memorise them?
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ May 29, 2005 05:14 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 29, 2005 05:18 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>
The Buddy Rich DVD is amazing if you want to see some of the most happenin big band music throughout the era. Covers buddy thru his life and the music he played.
"Dirty Rotten Kid" still blows me away.
But specifically.... If you are playing with some guys that "do" know how to play big band swing, then I suggest you start studying your ass off!!
Yeah.... some guys learned how to play without taking a lesson, but there are only a hand full of those dudes on the planet. Most of us mere mortals must learn to read. And if you want to get really good at comping in a big band jazz context, learn to read MUSIC MUSIC, and not just drum music. Because that's where all the action is.
Do you know how to play within a Jazz context??
Well, if not........ learn the ride pattern and the triplet feel. Break it down and learn how to interject snare drum rudiments/independance while keeping the triplet ride pattern going, all the while keeping a 2&4 closing on the HH. You'll never get this stuff down before monday (if you're not studied in jazz playing), but anytime is a great time to learn to play Jazz. It'll make you a better drummer all around.
Are there any horn players in the band?? How big is the band?? How many pieces??
Charts.... my friend..... charts!! Gotta learn the setups and the long/short notes. When to accent long and when to accent short. Greg Bissonette gives a good explanation of Big Band swing drumming in his new video, and his old one too. Guess thats why he recorded with the "A" band at North Texas State (well known for their Jazz studies program).
ps..... Cathy Richs husband Steve Arnold plays a great tune with Cathy in the Buddy Rich memorial concert (tape #2 with Vinne, Weckl, and gadd).
Randy Walman's CD's with Vinnie are an absolute blast if you like trio jazz, as well is the DVD of Vinnie playing with Chick in Japan at the Blue Note. And you can definetly take those concepts onto playing in a big band. It's all relative in the grande scheme of things.
S.P. is correct when he says some players can't drive a big band the way they should be, so heed those words. That is absolutely crucial. The way you play your ride is key. It's no more 1234 rock and roll, ping the ride. Your jazz ride technique is key to you driving the band and when you tighten everything together within your arsenol (ride pattern, left hand comping, long/short note accents, HH groove, and your setups) then you'll hear the difference between someone that "drives" the band, and someone just mustering out a "ding.... ding, da, ding...... ding, da, ding.....etc"
Paraflam had some great listening suggestions also.
yeah theres plenty of great advice here! Hope it helped
I fully agree with what Paraflam said. Perhaps not so much the comments about Buddy, but checking out Weckl or Biso would not be your best option.
Hi there and welcome to the board.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No No No Nooooo!! Forget any of the Buddy Rich Memorial tapes, apart from Gadd and Bisonettes' In A Mellow Tone, the rest are basically getting their chops out, have little regard for the phrasing or using it as a vehicle to solo and catch the hits, the majority of the players (Vinnie & Weckl included) are overplaying MASSIVELY! This is NOT a lesson in big band drumming.Quote:
Check out STeve Smith, Dave Weckl, Steve Arnold.
Get the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert Tape
As someone who has been playing, touring and recording in big bands since I was 12 or so, I would agree with Paraflam. Get any Count Basie recording , whether it's with Sonny Payne, Harold Jones or Butch MIles. Thad Jones/Mel Lewis recordings, Stan Kenton, Buddy (of course!) Rob McConnell, Duke Ellington....
The good big band drummer will have MASSIVE ears and be able to sight read any chart that is placed in front of them. Forget all flashy left hand and right foot comping that you may be practicing and concentrate on a good, solid, driving quarter note pulse on the ride. This is everything. A rim click on the 4th beat of the bar will help to center the time even more.
When you first get the chart, scan it's form, checking the DS and coda and where the tricky repeats are - also, how it ends. You will then not be surprised by it's geography when you're reading. Many drummers will nail all the phrasing that is written, because they are good readers, this is a mistake! Use your ears!! Let me say that again..... use your ears!! As I said, sometimes a rim click on beat 4 or 2&4 will make the band feel more comfortable than catching and filling through everything (as in most of the performances on the BRM tapes). Catching everything can clutter the music and consequently make it 'sit' better. You are NOT oblidged to play every note that's written.
Why did Gadd's two pieces swing harder than any other piece played? Because he was concentrating on the time (frequently just playing quarter notes on the ride) as opposed to all the phrasing and Elvin/Tonyesque comping). Notice his shuffling too, this drove the band like an express train!
Our job as big band drummers is to make the rest of the band feel comfortable and to give them a firm, solid foundation in which to play their parts. Don't forget that each section has 4 players that are trying to play phrasing that is often in unison and us filling and overplaying will distract them and detract from the time feel and consequently thre band won't sit. (as in Vinnie's performances on the BRM tapes. To me it sounded like the rest of the players were shitting themselves and counting like mad!) Check out the difference in the way the horns phrased behind Vinnie and Gadd. Which do you think swung the hardest?
As for setting up phrasing, keep it simple!! We don't have to play as many notes as possible up to the phrase to show how we understand how to fill - keep it simple and be tasteful and musical. Your fellow musicians will appreciate it as it will make them feel more secure and show that they can trust you as a player to make their job more easier.
If there is a load of phrasing written that is too complicated for you, then DON'T PLAY IT!! Swing through it and 'chop wood' on the snare, this will settle the band much more than trying to muddle your way through stuff you can't play. This does not mean you are a bad drummer, it means you're a sensitive and musical player that cares about the overall feel of the piece as opposed to catching everything and possibly making a hash of it.
REMEMBER - phrasing that's written above the stave is there as information for us - it shows us what the horns are playing and we are NOT oblidged to play it. We must however, play phrasing that is written inside the stave.
Good luck, have fun and enjoy it. It's the best fun and driving 15 other musicians and making them feel comfortable is the biggest buzz. Let us know how you get on.
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Oh, and take a soft pencil. Seriously. In fact, take two. It's the second most useful tool after your sticks. When your director changes the number of solos (repeats) on you (because he will), you can write it in. You can mark any cuts. You can emphasise the DS/DC and "to coda" marking or time changes if they're hard to see. You can mark any of the form you do want to catch (see Dazz's remarks above) above the staff if it's not already there.
Make sure it's soft, and any marks you make should be modest and easily removable. Band charts are shockingly expensive, and you won't be thanked for defacing them. Especially if they're on rental.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 29, 2005 08:41 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]</font>
Amen, Daz.... That's it right there, guys. Free lesson.
Basie is clearly the way to go. That's how I was first introduced the whole thing...!
Big Band drumming can be really great. For me it was always an amazing learning process to go through a complete chart, giving special attention to every little kick. I agree with the pencil advice too! Mark up that chart until you can only see the notes you really need. Enjoy!