Mooney

Interesting cover story in MD's 9/2003 issue with Keith Moon. The tension between technique and feel are communicated which many have argued about in here.

Keith was the anti-metronome/getting it perfect drummer. As I was reading, several well established cats came to mind that fit into the "perfect" category. Thomas Lang was interviewed as the local technical sheriff and commented on the aspect of passion over technique.

My feel is there is only a handful of Keith Moon's that are ever fortunate enough to make a living playing drums. It's hardly an endorsement for today's drumming youth. In this same issue, Ron Spagnardi reflects on how much the drumming industry has changed since he was a kid in the editorial. It was a nice look at how the choices have radically changed from 1953 to 2003 if you were a 10YO wanting to play the drums.

My take...if you have the God given talent to play so naturally and land in a great band that gets signed, sells tons of records, enables you to buy a house and put some bucks in a safe money market account for the future...then go for it! Skip the technical side, skip the schooling, play from your heart...BUT, if you ever want to get outside your "inner circle" some drumming skills might be needed more than just playing what "feels" good for one particular style of music. The article itself said Moon never played a ballad in The Who becasue he couldn't play 'em. And, in the same issue, there was another article on the difficulty of grooving at a snail's pace (p.88).

As I look at Moon's career, he needed some basic disciplines in his life outside of just practicing paradiddles.

That said, I loved what he did in The Who!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 19, 2003 01:41 AM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

That's true, but once you're rich and famous, take some lessons! I was watching a video of Radio Head in concert and, I'm sorry, but those guys suck ass. The guitar sounded horrible, the singer can't sing, and the drummer did as little as humanly possible (they could have simply set a drum machine to play a generic rock beat). And I don't mean he was tasteful and "minimalistic," I mean he was just lame.

Since these guys are rich and famous, they can afford to take some lessons and learn their instruments. They're clearly more interested in the rock and roll lifestyle than in perfecting their craft.

My roommate went out on a date with a drummer a while back (uh-oh). He said he never took lessons because it would spoil his creativity. That's like a writer refusing to learn new words because it would spoil his creativity. Actually, the larger your vocabulary, the more creative you can be. Musicians who say otherwise are just lazy.

I'm not a Who fan, but from what I've heard I never liked Keith Moon's playing. I think you could find thousands of rock drummers who play like he did.

Journey rules.

This is classic T-Bo stuff. I need to compile a "HOD Best Of" for potty breaks! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

"once you're rich and famous, take some lessons!"

"...they could have simply set a drum machine to play a generic rock beat. And I don't mean he (the drummer) was tasteful and "minimalistic," I mean he was just lame."

"My roommate went out on a date with a drummer a while back (uh-oh). He said he never took lessons because it would spoil his creativity_______________________ (fill-in).?

"Journey rules"

Dude, that's just funny stuff!

I will say this, the bands that seem to keep popping up on Conan O' Brien, Craig Kilborn, Jimmy Kimmel...man, I have to say I find it hard to believe this is the polished stone. I mean, what were these bands sounding like in raw form before they got signed? [img]eek.gif[/img]

You ain't whistlin' dixie, my friend. Are bands getting younger and younger (and worse), or am I just old?

Journey does rule. Best rock band ever.

"I'm not a who fan, but from what I've heard I never liked Keith Moon's playing. I think you could find thousands of rock drummers who could play like he did!

Oh dear! Let's put Keith Moon INTO CONTEXT shall we?! Of course you could find many drummers who play like he did in THIS day and age, but remember that The Who started out in the early 60's. You are listening to his playing based on nearly 50 years of developement and knowledge. Think of the type of pop drumming that was around at the time, with The Mersey Beat etc. Drummers were playing the most basic of patterns and simply keeping the beat throughout the song. Rock wasn't even around then.
Keith Moon was without question a leader in the development and progression of modern drumming. FACT! No one played like he did before him. He didn't simply flail around the kit hitting everytning like a nutter, but had his own voice and style - something that very few musicians aquire. Think of all the clones out there today. His drumming was way ahead of it's time as he phrased with the melody (something that any good jazz drummer will do) and knew all the 'hits' and parts that the guitars were doing. He played his patterns and beats while at the same time catching all the different parts and filling in a truly unique way. I can only think of Mith Mitchell as an example of someone having the same approach at that time.
Keith Moons playing was the start of a new breed of drummers. He didn't copy anyone (the band were basically a group of spotty, sweaty young lads from Shepards Bush in south London!) and played what he heard. Of course you are all entirely entitled not to like his playing that's called being subjective, but realise that when The Who first came about, Keith Moons' style of playing was never heard before.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to band him as a genius, but it is without question that he was partly responsible for changing the course of modern drumming. Listen to pop tunes by other artists around 1965 and then listen to The Who. The drumming is utterly destinctive. He was (probably without even knowing it) incredibly musical set a benchmark in pop drumming.
Look at how drumming changed after The Who appeared. Other drummers started to fill more, kits got bigger and playing became more powerful. Keith Moon was to my knowledge one of the first to play double bass drums and to have numerous toms instead of the standard 5 piece. Rock drumming was born!!
Apart form Keith Moon, I would also say that Pete Townsend is one of the most underated musicians in modern times. His playing, writing, arranging and contribution to music should be IMO valued much more. Works such as Tommy had never been heard before. Rock Operas!! The music was unbelievable and stands up in its own right even now. His knowledge of arranging techniques and use of orchestral instruments in a rock context was beautiful. The guy was such a musician.
So..... that's the rant over with! Moon will always be remembered as being at the forefront of modern popular drumming. No one played or heard anything like him previously. His style was unique, uncompromising, musical and revolutionary. Stick on A Who track from the mid 60's and listen carefully to Keiths' drumming. Put it IN CONTEXT, he was one of the drummers that pushed the boundaries of popular drumming and you can still hear his influence on players today.

The End!! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Yes, I'll have to agree with Dazzler. (Dazzler, If a Yank like myself can voice his support for Moon here for a moment [img]wink.gif[/img] )
Kieth's playing was definitely not metronomic by any means, but if you listen to Quadrophenia, Who Are You, and alot of the other albums, I don't think there's been a drummer before or since that uses tom rolls so musically and dynamically as Kieth did. His unorthodox style in his youth developed into a signature style by the early 70's. Listen to Baba O'Riley.... I think if you keep in mind that this was a guy who was pretty unorthodox, and if you can get past the imperfections and listen to how his playing supports and adds to the music as a whole, you'll definitely find some brilliant points in his playing.
I'm still grieving that The Ox left us, and now there's only 2... [img]frown.gif[/img]

Yes, I'll have to agree with Dazzler. (Dazzler, If a Yank like myself can voice his support for Moon here for a moment)

I'm a Brit actually!! [img]wink.gif[/img] London born and bred! [img]cool.gif[/img]

WHO geri? [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

Good argument Daz!

As for Journey, if you want to see them live T-Bo email me. I still dig the band and Castronovo does an excellent job, always respecting Smith's signature fills. I feel Smith's work on Fronteirs is a rock masterpiece in simplicity, feel, power, and subtle ghost noting--his fills were well thought out (exact oppostite of Moon) but perfect for those tunes.

I found it amazing that Moon wasn't supposed to be able to articulate a double-stroke roll. I'm not a Who fan so can't recall if I ever heard him play a buzz roll or some doubles on the snare ever. I guess the same was true of Nigel Olsen early on as well. Again, if you play in one band or only play the same type of music, you can get away with that...so much has changed since 1973! I did like the simplicity of Bad Co's drummer--fit the band nicely.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 19, 2003 06:40 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

maybe im just from a new generation but dissing Radiohead who unlike many american alternative bands seem to be the only one's that GET IT and then mentioning Journey in the same sentence, can u say CHEESE ? YICKES(yes they are good musicians, but that's it, listen to Radiohead's "Ok Computer" or "The Bends", those are actual statements in terms of "modern genius"-waiting for someone to mention Floyd-and the answer is NO WAY JOSE)

as for Moon, again im not surprised people sum people don't get it aside from Dazzler, sure the guy is nothing compared to Weckl, Colaiuta, Donati etc, but he had something many drummers of this generation don't have, BALLS, just passion for the music, that's one thing u just can't question him about, yeah sure he was kinda sloppy and always rushed the ballads "Behind Blue Eyes"(actually according to legend the problem with that tune was that Moon always cracked funny faces at Pete and he always got pissed and therefore Mooney wasn't allowed on stage until his part came in)

As for the "rock musician" argument, this has always been present(the whole jazz players looking down on rock players)... I would say I share the same respect towards someone who just picked the drums as I would do for Vinnie. The difference is that most rock musicians don't have any "aspirations" or desire to "progress" beyond what they already dominate, this what I don't get, how can someone who's been playing for say 20 years get up and play the same groove/fills EVERYDAY, it's just boring, it doesn't matter if you're being endorses by Yamaha and looked up to by thousand of novive drummers, it just plain SUCKS!.

That doesn't apply to "all of them", look at a guy like Peart, he's proggresed-not so much from a language standpoint since he's gotten more and more simple as time passes by-but his body motion, grip and all the stuff he's work with Freddie that's discussed in "A Work in Progress"(PUN INTENDED)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 19, 2003 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>