being an all round player

Steve touched on this subject in the "pics of Neils' house" topic.

Being a well rounded drummer in the business.

How far do you go at being 'well' rounded? I found this out recently when I was asked by invitation to audition for a very wellknown smooth jazz band.

I feel I can cover many styles in a respectable fashion without being off guard, but when it comes to left foot clave well that's not me and quite frankly on most of the stuff I do in the studio and live would never find a reason to use it.

But the music I was given to audition with was very 'latin' 1 tune being that there was no drums on it just perc. The band wanted drummers to give 'their' interpretation of playing it on kit. Well, that's kewl and I did give my best but after talking with the guys found out what they were really after. I did not feel bad and the guy playing after me I knew would not be doing this either, it was Tony Beard, VERY well known English studio drummer now living in NY.

The point is, in this day of drumming or any instrument I feel it's very important to be well versed and be comfortable. I think I have lost where I was going with this, Vinnie is very well rounded as a drummer, can cover it all as can peter Erskine and both of these players have proven that.......Peter has played with everyone from Steps to Steely Dan, Vinnie has played with everyone from Chick Corea, Chaka Khan, SheDaisy to Megadeth and Manson.

I respect Peart for giving the college try at playing swing, it's not him though but he went for it and he still practices even at an age and time in his life where he could just rest on where he is at as a player.

Randy, I'm curious.
Would the band be Spyro Gyra??
Since Joel is leaving...
But maybe you can't talk about it...

It all comes from the heart IMO. Guys like Vinnie, Bozzio, Tony, Cobham etc developed their style by their tastes in music and their will to *write* songs(parts) that they felt are the correct way that they should be written and interpreted according to the legacy, history of the language. In jazz, it is so common to study a composers songs to the point where your style becomes a shell of their style. Developing a groove in writing your own parts will come from the little patterns that sound really good to your ear. You may avoid them, but you'll unconciously mimic them in a lot of your music.

Developing your own style comes from WITHIN, not from forcing yourself to practice sum grooves from a book, like many do with LATIN. I am interested in many kinds of music. The interest leads me to exploring, which leads me to learn that style, as a means of further study or understanding. That's the beauty and versatility of music. Even if MOST of us could probably lay down a D & B groove, none of us would probably get close to the feel and authority of a JoJo Mayer who's being in the game for a while(example, listen to Steve Smith on the last MD Festival, YUCK!). Because we don't share the same energy and passion towards like JoJo does, we've probably won't be able to pull it off as convicingly. Even if it's all mechanics as outside listeners.

This is the way I look at it. There are people who know how to play drums, and then there are DRUMMERS. It's as simple as that. What separates those people from normal players is the heart. It's loving what you do, and putting your heart and soul and emotion into the music that you do write or study. You inject a part of yourself that no one else can see in your music, and that's what makes it stand out [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 21, 2004 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>

Well said Bozz... Definitly comes from the heart.

Developping your own voice takes a lot of work/time to achieve. Spending time practicing so you can pull what's in your head musically. Playing tons of gigs so you can apply what you've worked on within a musical context.

Practicing Latin patterns out of a book is a good start IMO, it gets your mechanic going and it helps you understand its peculiar vocabulary. Most of us did not have the chance to grow up in South America, where kids grow up hearing/listening to various well spiced Latin Rhythms.

Well, congrats on even getting asked to aud, Randman, & having the guts to go in & do it AW ;=)...I'da been just a LITTLE nervous ;=), if anything, simply because it's such a prestigious, high-prof gig... [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Yeah, us gringos didn't have quite the same luxury ;=)...i was raised in central-west FL...shoulda been Miami ;=)...

All the heavy players in town were hip to the latin stuff even way back in the early 80s...they all new it was hip sh**, the "next step" & integral link in the Weather Report - Miles etc direction, AFA "where [the] music was heading"...
That's why some of these cats like Horacio, Antonio, & even Ignacio are kickin some serious tail - they have the upbringing or exposure to the fundamental elements of the true ethnic latin feels coarsing "thru their veigns" AWA the good old American jazz/fusion...these cats are the real deal...but like Peter said, any1 can play it if they listen, study, apply, "feel," & play it enough...

I still practice new things in this genre, bit in no way shape or form am i at the level of those guys i ment'd...or near Weckl in this area, FTM [who is? ;=)]...[Weckl even calls himself a "gringo" compared to other "more latin influenced players" [img]eek.gif[/img] ;=)]....

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 20, 2004 06:09 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

WOW Randy! HUGE invitation!
Spyro Gyra is a major act in jazz......and one of the wealthiest too (Is'nt Joel driving a Porsche?)
Although some of their older stuff might be considered as "smooth", I listened to their 90's stuff and it can be pretty challenging, I like it a lot!
My brother who's a fan saw them live recently and said it was somewhat closer to serious latin-funk-fusion than smooth jazz.
They are excellent musicians. Dave Samuels is simply a mallet virtuoso!! So that might tell something about you.
Do you know how they noticed you? Were there any other invited cats we might know?

As I understand it, your "roundness" lacked some latin chops like the "left foot clave". Would this stuff be already part of the common drum vocabulary? I doubt it. I think it's HIGHLY specialized stuff. I might be wrong but I doubt top "well rounded" players like Gadd, Erskine or even Vinnie to be comfortable with it. Not many players are doing it, and most of them have latin origins (El Negro, Antonio,...). It's not like Bossa Nova where you could get the basics within a couple of days of shedding. It's not even close to blowing over the samba feet. Since it's an highly syncopated phrase with no down beat, it takes LOTS of practice to get the independance. Then there's the whole FEEL thing (which may not be that natural for north americans). Now when you combine playing on top of the LF clave/RF tumbao, I think you're in for years of shedding pleausure.

I think Pedro G from the board pretty much kills this stuff. Hey Pedro!| What are your thoughts on this subject? How did you develop it? I think you have latin origins, do you think it has a lot to do with getting the feel?

Guys, you're right. What you love at heart will push you to practice some stuff. I love latin music so much that now I almost only practice cuban patterns.
I practice LF clave because I like it, but it's SO hard. I can't see the day where I'll be comfortable to groove/solo on top of it but I continue. Who knows, that might be worth it someday ... as we can see...

Good luck with everything Randy. I'm sure other BIG auditions will come for you!

Darn right, Tombo! Good post.

Quote:

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My brother who's a fan saw them live recently and said it was somewhat closer to serious latin-funk-fusion than smooth jazz

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is more accurate, altho jazz is an underlying elem in most-if-not-all of what they do...
I think Joel took them to a whole new level, one which i embraced more readily than the older, smoother, "safer" SG...it'll be interesting to hear this new cat...can't wait to hear him, if he's replacing Joel & got the position at the auditions incldg our esteemed Mr Walker! ;=)...he's in good company, i think ;=)

Quote:

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I think it's HIGHLY specialized stuff. I might be wrong but I doubt top "well rounded" players like Gadd, Erskine or even Vinnie to be comfortable with it. Not many players are doing it, and most of them have latin origins (El Negro, Antonio,...). It's not like Bossa Nova where you could get the basics within a couple of days of shedding. It's not even close to blowing over the samba feet. Since it's an highly syncopated phrase with no down beat, it takes LOTS of practice to get the independance. Then there's the whole FEEL thing (which may not be that natural for north americans). Now when you combine playing on top of the LF clave/RF tumbao, I think you're in for years of shedding pleausure.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutley. [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 20, 2004 06:03 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

I dig that stuff (the left-foot clave)
but I'm going to say that, while it is
great to have, it's not necessarily going
to get you a gig with whomever. It's not
all about the left or the right foot. It's
about the hands AND the feet.

It's there for anyone that wants it. You
just have to get into it and let it come
back out of you.

Pedro knows what I'm talking about and he
could have been there, the monster he is.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 20, 2004 06:04 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

In the last few years they have definetly gone more to the Latin/Jazz side of things.
How did they find out about me? Well like most, when the word went out that Joel was leaving I started emailing Jay, after a few weeks they asked for samples of my playing, this went on for about a month or so of my sending different playing styles. Then I got the word from their manager inviting me to come out to Suffern and audition, they sent a letter plus cd with 4 tunes to learn 1 they scratched at the last minute.

A wealthy band? I don't know the financial position of the guys, Joel does drive an older Porsche.......
I know what my stake in the band would have been by show and it was not high by any means, I make more in the studio and on corporate gigs then I would have being on the road with the band.
I wa sable to score a bootleg DVD of the band live from last year at the North Sea Jazz fest to give me an idea of what they were doing live, it helped a great deal to get into the mood of things, Joel rips on it.

1 thing that Jay said to me after was that they wanted to have the "wow" factor this time when they tour and that really summed it up for me as to where theri heads were in terms of handing out the Latin stuff.

Who else was auditioning? From what I saw on the call sheets Tony Beard was the only HEAVY weight during the 3 days and he was after me. he lives in NY and is friends with Julio. All the cats auditioning were recorded so the band could listen back and make a better decision.

Pedro is a world-class player, IMHO [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

He should be doing these big name tour clinics & vids, certainly moreso than a few that i've seen do them [Alex S AW;=)]...but then we all know that in those cases it's about the sales #s/fame/popularity factor anyway....*sigh*...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 20, 2004 07:14 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>