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Ok here goes my first post....
I have been drumming for id say 3 years now... not one lesson, only some guidance from the internet but I dont completely trust the internet. I see myself as an ok drummer, but anyway, I have always wondered is there an actual advantage to hodling your sticks the traditional way as opposed to holding them matched?
We have talked about this topic A LOT before on the site, just use the search engine at the top and you'll probably find sum results.
Bottom line is there's no such thing as a better grip at all, you play what's comfortable to you and what you think will get the most out of your kit in terms of expression. Aside from technique, trad. grip players seem to have a completely different approach to the drumset, by having a different grip on each hand demands a different attack and also the feel itself is different.
Virgil plays traditional, Vinnie plays traditional, Weckl plays traditional. Traditional is better. Makes for easier doubles.
I disagree! Go listen to Vinnie when he was playing matched grip... [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">.....your point being?Quote:
Virgil plays traditional, Vinnie plays traditional, Weckl plays traditional. Traditional is better. Makes for easier doubles
OK before this thread gets all out of control, yes he should do a search. Let me also say this.
Assuming your right handed:
People assume that both hands do the same things and so "if traditional grip is so much better then why not hold both hands that way". The answer is simple:
The left and right hand have DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITES in the kind of drumming that I'm into (ghost-note oriented playing). Both hands are a duo that do different things to make one sound. It's my opinion that traditional grip accomodates the left hand's responsibilites better than match.
And yes, Vinnie played matched for a while, but then after switching the ceiling was basically REMOVED and his phrasing took-off. His matched stuff is a bit stiffer and harder-hitting then then trad-grip stuff.
The great matched grip players (Peart, Brufford, Wackerman, Novak, Dennis) don't have the same flow to their playing. Why? Because flow comes from doubles and matched guys tend to be signles guys. You cont flow as well with singles. Trad guys tend to be doubles guys (generally speaking) and they totllay flow. Virg, Vinnie, Weckl, their phrasing all has a nice flow to it that I can't recall a matched player aquiring.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 28, 2004 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>
Chambers and Novak don't have the same flow? [img]redface.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 28, 2004 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Rudy_Ment ]</font>
I was somewhat surprised to see Minneman playing matched based on all the notes he plays
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't necessarily agree w this POV at all, in fact, it's sheer nonsense to me. I've tried to understand this philosophy & where it stems from, but i just can't quite come to it. Splittin' hairs. However, Stv is a fine player; but i don't understand where this opin comes from, except to say that some of those who seem to be espousing this idea are, in fact, trad players themselves ;c)...steeped in the trad playing mindset...Quote:
The great matched grip players (Peart, Brufford, Wackerman, Novak, Dennis) don't have the same flow to their playing. Why? Because flow comes from doubles and matched guys tend to be signles guys. You cont flow as well with singles. Trad guys tend to be doubles guys (generally speaking) and they totllay flow. Virg, Vinnie, Weckl, their phrasing all has a nice flow to it that I can't recall a matched player aquiring.
Bruford, Wackerman, & Chambers can all play trad AW, & have at one time or another...& Novak played some trad live w the CCEB2 when i saw them.
Weckl, Vinnie, & Horacio can play both grips extremely well, & I don't hear all that much diff. [Maybe, just MAYBE, EVER-so-sslight subtleties - i know, "Ah-HA! There! - i've got you now, fuse!"] In fact, each can tear it up w BOTH grips. [Weckl displayed some blazing-&-finessed matched grip LH at his last clinic here.] Vinnie was playg both trad & matched when i saw him in clinic way back in '84...he could [& still does] rip your head off [AWA can feather-tickle you to death] w both.
I would say that this was the best 'analogy':
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To say that you can't teach your matched L hand to be as sensitive as a trad L is absurd to me; that you can't get a matched L to have as graceful a double stroke is, quite frankly, some abstract logic, to me.Quote:
Bottom line is there's no such thing as a better grip at all, you play what's comfortable to you and what you think will get the most out of your kit in terms of expression
[Of course, that is just this guy's HO]...;c)
I just think you guys think it looks 'more cool'.... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [But hey; it's Stv's board!] ;c)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 28, 2004 05:15 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
I agree with both sides on this one. I guess it depends on what kind of music one were to play. If we are talking about jazz/fusion/funk/afro-cuban/world kind of music, there are definitely some great matched-grip players that can get that flow and "finesse" in the left hand-Novak, Bill Stewart, Cliff Almond, Dennis. Just saw that DW promo video w/ Novak just smokin' some of those 16th-note triplet grooves and fills. And Novak kills on jazz stuff, more than alot of the "jazz only" guys. But I think that it's easier to play certain things with trad grip than matched. For instance, the Syncopation exercises with all the left hand variations is definitely easier with trad grip especially for higher tempos. Just in terms of being relaxed at the kit is a big reason to play traditional.