Reruns!

In my last topic,I was talking about Steve Smith and how he had "evolved".One thing I have noticed about Smith is that you are going to get the same drum solo night after night.Same licks,same tricks,etc..

I was talking to Randy the other day about that.I have watched alot of drummers over the years and I will go on record and say this.OF ALL THE DRUMMERS I HAVE EVER SEEN,THERE HAS BEEN ONE WHO DOES NOT REPEAT HIMSELF WHENEVER HE PLAYS.THAT MAN IN VINNIE COLAIUTA!!!

Even Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa and everybody since then has had the "reruns".You pick a drummer from anytime period and I will say
"reruns"!

It's worse today than ever.Guys like Lang and Virgil.Great,Yes!! Don't get me wrong,it's not about that.It's about repeating yourself over and over again.There is one drummer that does not repeat himself.

Vinnie Colaiuta- 'nuf said!


"I don't feel good,but i have good feel!"

Neil Peart is so guilty of the "repeat"... Great observation. You also have to take into consideration, that Vinnie is not a solo act like Virgil or Lang... Although Vinnie has done clinics, he is not a solo act by any means. With that being said, Vinnie by far has the deepest bag of lick ideas that I have ever heard. When he does solo, it is always catered to the feel of the music at that particular moment, not a premeditated or structured movement, which we see with Steve Smith, Virgil, Lang, etc....

Mark, nice to see you on the board!

vinnie repeats licks too.

shedder, of course Vinnie repeats licks - everyone does from time to time. I think the point is that he does this the least out of the other big name guys. But, as mentioned this is because he had the deepest bag of tricks to pull from.

Do you guys know if Vinnie ever studied with Freddy Gruber? I was wondering about this the other day.

I know he studied with Richard Wilson; I don't think he studied with Freddie. He doesn't play like it, that's for sure.

yeah vinnie is the man!

thats a very good point that you've got there, we should try and see if we can find anyone else who has a really deep bag or tricks...

i think the reason that some many drummers repeat themselves is because the have 5 or 6 licks..which they can play the hell out of and then they just repeat those licks using different variations etc...like the thomas lang dvd, he had a lot of exercises but after a while the basic rythmic ideas were the same as in previous chapters but played different with a different phrasing or with different orchestrations etc...

The worse thing in the world for music is to have your bag of trix-lix to 'fall back' on.

We ALL have 'em. The thing to do is, FORGET them, & play in the moment w/out any preconception as to what to play, save for the context of the genre or style of tune.

The best players do it this way. They all have their 'bag,' but leave it for the solo clinic trail & not in the music. [Unless it is a parts oriented, like say a pop tune where the song has specific things that are integral to it's pre-written format because it is part of the identifying features of the tune. Rush & DT are like this. NP's drumparts are written solely w the specific rock tune in mind. Not a bad thing. Just not what you want for the more 'loose,' improvisatory music.] Just another 'head' [mindset], or 'bag,' really. It's good to be able to do BOTH.

Shedder is correct - VC does have little things in his arsenal that you can recognize from time to time...& i can hear the Tony in him ENAT, but he has also taken from TW [& many other notables] & made it his OWN...that is norm for everyone, really. Not a bad thing at all. It's just that he just switches it up a little bit all the time...& rarely IF EVER is waiting to throw a 'standard, bagged lick' at you anymore. The guy is a DEEP well of improvisatory ideas from which to draw, which he now instictively pulls up in the moment at will. [Weckl too FTM, AWA many others we hold in such high regard around here. [img]wink.gif[/img] ]

...[But he CAN pistol whip ya to death w his lick & synchopations/accents arsenal too, if'n he wants to...] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2004 04:52 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

I think we are all saying the exact same thing in one way or another...

I can think of a hundred other guys I would bag on about reruns b4 i'd hit SS on it...JMHO...everyone has things in "their bag" that come out & are recognizable from time to time...this is what often contributes to our own "uniqueness"...when i saw SS w Vital Info, & the power went off 4 or 5 times, he did a diff beeyatchin solo each time...it seems what you are really trying to say is that you prefer VC's apprach to SS's...cool...personally, i hear & understand somewhat the criticisms you guys are making, but i can think of a lot of other guys that are deserving of ragging b4 a cat like SS...really. He's a cat who really throws himself out there over the fire so to speak, so naturally this lines him up to be stacked against other players, & to be criticised...but I go w matricks on this one...AWA Elvin's "don't judge something against yours or someone/-thing elses standard, but by it's own merits." ;c) I dont think anyone who ever played w him thought he did a bad job...Gambale must like it, & he also plays w WRECKL. SS's been doing this longer than a lot of us, & had huge success at it early on, while he was still yet evolving, even tho he was still a really good player even back then, & was setting certain trends & standards, & w a resume to prove it...since we were "playing w our own poop." ;c)
While one of my all-time faves is also VC, I dont find it unenjoyable at all to listen to Mr Smith...he holds on fond place in my heart from way back, if even just for prestige & posterity's sake, let alone "chops" & such... ;c)

=========================

Nice story ["Owned by Big bro hehe"] LOL

OK, i have one too. Not a jazz, "world," or fusion music situation, but nevertheless...

I was workg in this country/showtune/oldies band w this egocentric, greedy, manipulative, control-freak frontman [is there any other kind?! J/K - & those are his good points [img]wink.gif[/img] ]...oh, i forgot, "pervayer of the BS" & "gregarious," aka "mouthy." A real "used car-salesman / TV evangelist / politician" kind of guy. The bassist got sick of his BS, so we're lookg for another bassist right b4 a 2+1/2 mo long tour.

The existing gtrist & keybst [very hip & jazz/world/fusion oriented] decide to put modern technology to good use...the keybst will play LH bass on keys, & so, while the keybst solos, the gtrst has a Digitech MIDI sound module unit & gtr pickup, so he switches a bass sound on to play simultaneously as he strums rhythm underneath the keys if it's a keys solo [not many "blue" or "outside" notes in this material [img]wink.gif[/img] ]...[I wont even get into how the frontman tried to rip them financially, in compensating them for this, even tho they were saving him one band members' entire salary PLUS extra hotel room - at his price, it was a small fortune!] ):c/

Then, this keybst leaves because of basically the same, & the frontguy hires another new guy, who's a great reader; he's very classically influenced, but he has trouble improvising on things as simple as a standard pentatonic progression [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [not that he doesnt have the ability / mind / chops for it!] [img]confused.gif[/img] His mind would wander... He has to work everything out & have a "set" plan for solos & such. We try to help "hip him out" to concepts such as are indicative to jazz playg, like improvising & changing up chordal motifs & such [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img] ...to little avail... ;c)

So the new keybst goes to do his same solo this 1 partic night [which incidentally he is dedicating to some younger gal in the audience], & the same gtrst has his MIDI rig...which he switches to a piano sound. During the guys' "NP" composed-type piano solo, the gtrst starts plucking "outside" notes...you shoulda seen the new keybst's face on stage...[& been in the bandroom afterwards]...;c)

PS - oh yeah...VC is still da man...&...Tain for prez... ;cP

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 22, 2004 01:48 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

A pretty funny Story. A pretty Famous danish Double Bass Player, Chris Minh doky, was touring with bigbrother; Niels Lang Doky and a couple of their Cats. Well when Doky Solo's you can allways hear it is him, but this time Niels Doky, got enough of it. Assumeable he's been playing the same solo at every gig, Niels Played every note of his Solo simutaniously as Chris Minh was doing his. Everyone was Laughing, pretty funny.

Owned by Big bro hehe.