-
Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Hi ALL,
On Friday, I bought a pair of Model 19s advantageously, off of Craigslist, and have been looking it over today. I have a few ideas, that I wanted to share or voice for other's input.
On the stock crossover, if one is KEEPING the stock three inductors: (a) why not turn the middle one 90 degrees, for less field interaction.? ALSO, why not space the two "outer" inductors, each about 3/8ths of an inch closer to the edges on the stock ALTEC Model 19's metal plate, for less interaction??
On the " grounding the rivets mod ", It appears to me, only the Input rivet, and the two Output rivets, are electrically in the ground path. Instead of wiring all four rivets together as previously shown on this forum, ( a large " C " ) why not take the input ground, and STAR wire two ground runs, to individually run the output grounds...?? That way, the tweeter will not be sharing the woofer's ground run currents.
Oh well, have a good day
Regards,
Jeff.......... Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
nice find Jeff. :)
I myself would leave it as stock as possible, but that's my preference.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Jeff,
You bought just the crossovers correct?
I have 2 sets. One just used the rivets as grounds. The other had all the grounds wired together.
So Altec either thought it was important at some time, or cheaped out and saved a foot of wire by leaving them out.......
Who knows.
The set that I used to have that came in the A7X speakers I bought actually had a box around them, and spade connectors on the back. They were N1201 but were the same circuit as the M19.
The two I have now that actually say Model 19 are just flat plates with the input and output wires just soldered to the terminal strips.
Only the LF inductor handles and real current, so maybe turn that one. I forget though which one it is.
Separating grounds is never a bad idea. Will you hear it? Hard to say.
BTW, those pots get noisy. The covers come off for cleaning though.
Enjoy
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Jeff, Classic domestic Altecs. If they weren't as rare as hens teeth Down-Under they would have been my choice.
Orientation of air-cored inductors is much less important than for iron-core ones. Air-cored inductors can be much closer together than iron cored inductors. X,Y,Z axis arrangement can be beneficial if desired component placement is constrained by space considerations. This arrangement looks better than the one in the link, below: Altec Lansing Model 19 Crossover NEW ?€? $178.00 - PicClick , but may give a different result to the original.
Grounding: If joints are in good fettle there is no audible difference between a short bus-ground and a star-ground in an LV passive crossover.
One version of the M19 crossover appears to use riveted connections to ground-plane These would be OK if welded but if solely riveted may suffer oxidation over time.
See here: help with m19 crossover wires - Mod. shown.
(Inductor layout would disturb purists but it worked well).
The high-pass filter prevents LF 'sharing'.
The Model 19 is possibly the most discussed Altec system on this forum and there are several crossover alternatives and mods. posted by forum members. I frequently find Google more useful than Hostboard Search.
Enjoy, as they used to say.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonSSS
Jeff,
You bought just the crossovers correct?
I have 2 sets. One just used the rivets as grounds. The other had all the grounds wired together.
So Altec either thought it was important at some time, or cheaped out and saved a foot of wire by leaving them out.......
Who knows.
The set that I used to have that came in the A7X speakers I bought actually had a box around them, and spade connectors on the back. They were N1201 but were the same circuit as the M19.
The two I have now that actually say Model 19 are just flat plates with the input and output wires just soldered to the terminal strips.
Only the LF inductor handles and real current, so maybe turn that one. I forget though which one it is.
Separating grounds is never a bad idea. Will you hear it? Hard to say.
BTW, those pots get noisy. The covers come off for cleaning though.
Enjoy
Thanks, I appreciated your comments. No, I bought a whole pair of Model 19s on Friday. Missing one 802.
Since I like my A7-800 VOTTs, ( mass loaded and rewired ) and don't have the room, I will have to re-sell these in my area ( Kansas City ). Onto Craigslist !!
Jeff .... Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Ah. In that case, I'd just leave them be and let the new owner muck with them if he chooses.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Your not going to at least give them a chance? For many the Model 19 is the end game. Not sure of the drivers on your VOTT but if it uses 802's I'd do some swapping and give them an honest try.
Do some research on what you have before being so hasty to unload them.
BillWojo
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
The 19's would have 802-8G if they had 802's.
Otherwise they will be 902-8A. Marked with a paper label.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillWojo
Your not going to at least give them a chance? For many the Model 19 is the end game. Not sure of the drivers on your VOTT but if it uses 802's I'd do some swapping and give them an honest try.
Do some research on what you have before being so hasty to unload them.
BillWojo
Bill,
I have, in my A7-800s, 515Bs and re-done ( GPA ) 802Ds, on Emilar EH-500 type horns. I use a VERY custom crossover, DIY, 390 pounds of mass loading per box, and special mil spec wiring internally.
I like the 825-828 enclosure's horn loading of the 15 inch 515B, and so, I doubt a M19, ( with a woofer in a reflex box ), will "cut it" as well, particularly from 135 HZ up, where the A7 is horn loaded on the 15 inch driver.
Had I not had the A7-800s, I would mod and restore the Model 19s.
Each crossover film cap in a Model 19, ( Valencia, or A7 ) for the tweeter circuit, are in DIRE need of thoughtfully-added high-frequency bypassing, whew !! No one except one individual seems to do this , or knows how to do it well.
Thanks.
Jeff ........... Low Ohms.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Have you spent some time listening to the M19's Jeff? I'm sure they could use some new caps. Maybe you could tweak them to your liking. I don't think a recap and some bypass caps would hurt their value.
Since you are missing an 802G, you could throw your pair of 802D in there instead. For testing purposes of course
Some speakers have no right sounding as good as they do. Like was mentioned above, these are "last speakers" for some people.
Also did you figure out which woofers you have?
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elitopus1
Have you spent some time listening to the M19's Jeff? I'm sure they could use some new caps. Maybe you could tweak them to your liking. I don't think a recap and some bypass caps would hurt their value.
Since you are missing an 802G, you could throw your pair of 802D in there instead. For testing purposes of course
Some speakers have no right sounding as good as they do. Like was mentioned above, these are "last speakers" for some people.
Also did you figure out which woofers you have?
If you were going to sell the M19s, what would you be asking for?
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kwingylee
If you were going to sell the M19s, what would you be asking for?
Wait, is this a trick question? :rolleyes::)
M19's aren't worth much in my area. There was a pair that sat on CL for 6 weeks before they sold. They were only asking 600$. Yes I did go look at them. Good original condition with 416B and 802G.
I wouldn't feel right buying them just to part them out. I'll bet someone else did that eventually.
I prefer the gray Altecs. Something I can repaint when it gets dinged and scratched.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elitopus1
Have you spent some time listening to the M19's Jeff? I'm sure they could use some new caps. Maybe you could tweak them to your liking. I don't think a recap and some bypass caps would hurt their value.
Since you are missing an 802G, you could throw your pair of 802D in there instead. For testing purposes of course
Some speakers have no right sounding as good as they do. Like was mentioned above, these are "last speakers" for some people.
Also did you figure out which woofers you have?
Hello,
It is presently impossible for me to set up the Model 19s - as I would want to listen to them. I will not be able to do a comparison.
( I would want to re-do the M-19 crossover, re-do the internal wiring extensively, and mass load the enclosure with at least 300 pounds per side. ) That just isn't going to happen.
For the next three months, all my audio effort goes to two current "priority" projects
(a) finishing a DIY passive system attenuator and
(b) finishing the redesign / build of two ( 2) DIY Direct Coupled JJ 2A3-40 SET monaural amplifiers.
I am upgrading .....from my December 2016's "dual mono on a single chassis" amp build, to :
two (2) separate mono amps, on two (2) chassis, to obtain a more optimized lay-out, that only true mono amps will allow.
LOL, it only took one month, December 2016, for me to became " spoiled - ruined for life " - about ever-again using stereo ( shared L-R power supply ) amplifiers on my ALTECS .
This occurred, after living with / and first hearing the new DIY "dual mono on a single chassis" 2A3 amps - only for that ONE month. Now, after HEARING that, my amplifier priority has become..... I want to hear my speakers slightly improved over that, with TRUE separate monaural amplifiers. Two.
'Am re-designing the two custom power transformers, tonight and tomorrow. Cool project.
Regarding identifying M19s woofers, 'will take you say-so, on what they are, since you know much more than me, of such things. Thanks.
Regards to all, have fun, I am.
Low Ohms.....Jeff .
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Wow, I guess you don't trust the Altec engineers at all if you need to do that whole list of stuff to them just for a listen.
Almost any top ten speaker list has Model 19's on the list, for a damn good reason. Altec went all out to design these for high fidelity, not sound reinforcement.
To have them and not do everything that you can to give them a fair trial is nuts. If they sound good with old caps and nothing done to them, well you can take it from there. At least give them a fair try.
BillWojo
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillWojo
Wow, I guess you don't trust the Altec engineers at all if you need to do that whole list of stuff to them just for a listen.
Almost any top ten speaker list has Model 19's on the list, for a damn good reason. Altec went all out to design these for high fidelity, not sound reinforcement.
To have them and not do everything that you can to give them a fair trial is nuts. If they sound good with old caps and nothing done to them, well you can take it from there. At least give them a fair try.
BillWojo
Bill,
I object to "nuts" ...was unnecessary, and a poor choice of a word on your part IMHO.
READ the post I did before yours. I have no amps, and no attenuator. HOW can I critically evaluate speakers, without amps of reference quality???
The M19s are not my priority, going to ( making ) monaural 2A3 DC amps, amps with ZERO negative feedback for listening seriously, is the priority !!
Each of those new monaural amps will use three of those 1,500 Ampere ( peak instantaneous ) capacitors, in key spots. First time...its ever being done in audio !! ' Way cool.
Speaker-wise, can a properly designed bass reflex woofer, (with a horn loaded driver above it), out-perform a partial horn loaded woofer, (with a horn loaded driver above it) ?? It can't, IMHO. ( M19s vs A7-800s).
Have fun, I sure am!!
Jeff ......Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Speaker-wise, can a properly designed bass reflex woofer, (with a horn loaded driver above it), out-perform a partial horn loaded woofer, (with a horn loaded driver above it) ?? It can't, IMHO.
Since the question was rhetorical i'll spare you the correct answer.
I understand that you cannot do a comparison, and that Nineteens are not your priority to the extent that you don't even care to fully investigate the correct identity of the components you have. This makes your opinions concerning their performance subjective at best. If Nineteens don't interest you, then why even mention them?
You can do better, please demonstrate.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtie427ss
Since the question was rhetorical i'll spare you the correct answer.
I understand that you cannot do a comparison, and that Nineteens are not your priority to the extent that you don't even care to fully investigate the correct identity of the components you have. This makes your opinions concerning their performance subjective at best. If Nineteens don't interest you, then why even mention them?
You can do better, please demonstrate.
HI,
OK.
I mentioned M19s, because upon my direct inspection, as my thread is entitled, I was shocked at how the stock wiring and crossover design was executed by ALTEC.
There is TONS of room for improvement, in both areas, so that the speaker performs better.
I very well recall what Mr. Fulton was doing, in that same time period and even earlier, with crossovers. This thread I entitled " Mod Thoughts - M19 crossovers ".
I certainly have disassembled the M19s to identify the components. It was - is - the very first thing I did.
Elitopus, privately, has KINDLY helped me identify the woofers, they are ALTEC but seemingly not stock. Whoever buys them, will see the units from the inside out, as it is pictured plainly in my Kansas City Craigslist ad, and they can inherit the speaker project.
ALTEC Model 19 Speaker Pair
I intend to systematically drop the price, starting tomorrow and sell them locally. The ugly A7-800s stay.
In my two bedroom apartment , I have VOTTs in my living room. In my kitchen, disassembled Valencias being rebuilt fully, and now these disassembled 19s, taking almost ALL my kitchen's floor space !!
Need to do the 2A3 amps !! Amplifiers, in my experience and opinion, not speakers, are the true weak link.
Jeff Medwin... Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
In all sincerity, i would like to see you someday visit Nineteens with the same vigor and intent with which you have explored the small format VOT system. I think you bring new, unique, and useful insight to the table, and could likely help take the Nineteen system to a level that has not yet been explored. I also understand that you have your hands full and such a journey with Nineteens isn't possible at this time.
A few points that should be considered about the model Nineteen system and it's proper components:
The 416-8B woofer, and 802-8G compression driver were the latest designs from Altec at the time. Both used newly designed magnetic circuits, and the compression driver used a newly applied phase plug as well.
Those are the components that the Nineteen system was engineered around, and for any real world comparisons, or improvements they are the components that should be used as they differ somewhat parametrically from other variants. The 416-8B, while not so well suited to horn driver duty as the 515 series, is a wonderful woofer by it's own merits, and can yield excellent results in other enclosures as well.
It should also be noted that the Nineteen enclosure is not a simple bass reflex box in that it was Altec's first use(to my knowledge) of a bass reflex system incorporating an additional resonant chamber/volume separated from the main chamber by a "throat".
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Given any unfamiliarity with everything Altec, I can understand some confusion ( after seeing these pics ) over what woofers these actually are.
They are not the 416-8Z version of the 416-8B that most of us attribute to that ( Alnico ) number.
I'd state them as generic 416-8C ( ferrite ) woofers with the wrong dust-caps ( but with desirable cones ).
https://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_...A_1200x900.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_...P_1200x900.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00V0V_...u_1200x900.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00I0I_...m_1200x900.jpg
:)
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
I think the magnets look like 421 magnets. I haven't seen a 416C with the textured magnets like that. I did have a pair of 421 that had them though. Here is a side shot
Attachment 3492
I could be completely wrong of course.
Replacement cones with the 21184 stamp are still available now on ebay. Or maybe those were 416 orginally and someone changed some parts. From what I understand any of the 3" VC Altec parts can be swapped. Frames, magnets, and cones.
Also notice the rear vent with the screen. The 421 would have this
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Low ohms, my m19s came with xovers that copy the original but use foil and air core inductors, audio cap Thetas, Dayton caps and mills and Dayton resistors. The weird thing is that they still use the m19s attenuators. They do sound better than the original ones i have and measured a little flatter. It's a shame you don't have the time for a new project. I have heard a7s a couple of times and although the midrange was great, I prefer the m19s by a big margin. One thing though the two sets of a7s were not modded and were using unacceptable eq. Good luck!!!
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
juniper
Low ohms, my m19s came with xovers that copy the original but use foil and air core inductors, audio cap Thetas, Dayton caps and mills and Dayton resistors. The weird thing is that they still use the m19s attenuators. They do sound better than the original ones i have and measured a little flatter. It's a shame you don't have the time for a new project. I have heard a7s a couple of times and although the midrange was great, I prefer the m19s by a big margin. One thing though the two sets of a7s were not modded and were using unacceptable eq. Good luck!!!
Liked your post. Guess what, everyone sees a "C" in a crossover, and puts a single cap, of "appropriate " value, in place, and THINKS they are done . Not so !! Any single cap will NOT play the entire musical experience in a wideband manner. Most film caps will never get the highs as right as they can be.
Very LITTLE work has been done in multiple bypassing of film caps. Most everyone I meet is unaware of how to do it in any " pristine " or effective way. Yet, I find, it takes not just ONE cap, the main cap, but about four additional caps, to play back the musical experience with the fullest musical expression of the mids and high end. Look at most crossover schematics, and you will see " one " cap in a position.
If you are lucky, you may see a single by pass cap, maybe a 0.1 or a 0.01uF in parallel with a "main" film cap. I say, it takes , depending upon where in the crossover, one to four or more bypasses added to EACH cap position in the compression driver or tweeter circuit, to get the ALTECS ( or any speaker ) to play the music as they can and should.
Various SIZES ( in uFs) of caps, play various parts of the spectrum, that a single cap " misses". Cap quality , not just size, counts heavily, not all caps are designed to parallel well. Few in the audio world ever discuss this, or implement it fastidiously. I only know of one manufacturer who knows how to do this well.
Maybe, in a year or two, I will get my hands on a Model 19 and give it a go. Right now, I am still experimenting with the VOTT A7-800s, and have at least 6 more months to go !! Parts for my system attenuator arrived today, MXL timing belts.. Maybe I will post photos when I get it done, construction photos.
Have fun, I am !!
Jeff Medwin.....Low Ohms.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
With regular 802's, and the wrong dust caps in the woofers, in my opinion you wouldn't be listening to real M19's anyway.
The woofer cone needs a vent.
And the older 802's are not as extended.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
I'd state them as generic 416-8C ( ferrite ) woofers with the wrong dust-caps ( but with desirable cones ).
I think this is spot on. Not the best of times at Altec, paper labels in place of foilcals, loading caps in place of rear motor covers on the ferrite compression drivers, etc..
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtie427ss
I think this is spot on. Not the best of times at Altec, paper labels in place of foilcals, loading caps in place of rear motor covers on the ferrite compression drivers, etc..
416 8C. Thanks for that input !! Helpful.
Jeff ....Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LowOhms
416 8C. Thanks for that input !! Helpful.
Jeff ....Low Ohms
Purely a guess on my part here...........
But, i would offer as an explanation for the non-stock dustcaps the fact that early ferrite 416's borrowed most if not all of their magnet structure from the 421 type MI speakers.
One modification that was made to these magnetic structures is that a metal disc was glued over the vent hole on the front of the pole piece. These are infamous for coming loose which drops them into the voice coil former just behind the dustcap, imagine what that sounds like when played. A repair is easily made by carefully cutting away the original dust cap, either removing or re-gluing the disc, and then gluing on a new dust cap.
FWIW, i believe the 416-8Z designation was probably correct "in house" at the time. As much as i would like to protest and say "no no no, 416-8Z is an alnico driver" i have to have faith that the people at Altec at the time probably knew more about what they were building than me. :) I think the reality is that "Z" in an Altec woofer model probably has a very parallel meaning to "PL" on a JBL woofer, simply "plain label", no magnet covers or bumpers, no foilcals or otherwise fancy dress.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bowtie427ss
Purely a guess on my part here...........
But, i would offer as an explanation for the non-stock dustcaps the fact that early ferrite 416's borrowed most if not all of their magnet structure from the 421 type MI speakers.
One modification that was made to these magnetic structures is that a metal disc was glued over the vent hole on the front of the pole piece. These are infamous for coming loose which drops them into the voice coil former just behind the dustcap, imagine what that sounds like when played. A repair is easily made by carefully cutting away the original dust cap, either removing or re-gluing the disc, and then gluing on a new dust cap.
FWIW, i believe the 416-8Z designation was probably correct "in house" at the time. As much as i would like to protest and say "no no no, 416-8Z is an alnico driver" i have to have faith that the people at Altec at the time probably knew more about what they were building than me. :) I think the reality is that "Z" in an Altec woofer model probably has a very parallel meaning to "PL" on a JBL woofer, simply "plain label", no magnet covers or bumpers, no foilcals or otherwise fancy dress.
Thank, thanks again. The dustcaps were done recently, by a speaker repair place in Springfield, MO., for the prior M19 owner, as a kid put his finger through the stock one.
Jeff ....Low ohms.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Jeff can you post some pics ? Don't use hostboard to do it though. Use Photobucket,Flickr,or Image shack.. Something like that or any image hosting site.. and just post the IMG links. Hostboard resizes them to thumbnails practically.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Altec Best
Jeff can you post some pics ? Don't use hostboard to do it though. Use Photobucket,Flickr,or Image shack.. Something like that or any image hosting site.. and just post the IMG links. Hostboard resizes them to thumbnails practically.
I am so sorry, but the M19s were sold about four hours ago. I HAD lotsa photos in the Craigslist Kansas City ad, which I referred to you folks in this post, but I have since deleted the ad. Had the drivers been correct and matching, I would possibly have not " flipped" the purchase.
As it was, it was a LOT of fun to buy and sell it .
The new owner is a typical ALTEC fan, but , like many I see, he knows NADA about correct / best possible amps. He is an Electronics Technician, says he can build a DIY tube amp if I give him a schematic, so, I will have him over in 90 days, when I get my two monaural Direct Coupled 2A3 amps finished, just to see if I can blow him away ! Would be fun to witness his listening response, and also very instructive to me. Will he recognize and hear what " I " hear. I think he might.
Jeff .... Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
OT: Speaking of hearing, checkout this site. The "blind test" section is good. Take the tests and then tell us how you did! Some of the tests have very small changes that are hard to hear.
Free Online Audio Tests, Test Tones and Tone Generators
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LowOhms
The new owner is a typical ALTEC fan,
Jeff .... Low Ohms
I would assume you pointed him to this site, right?
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil-G
I would assume you pointed him to this site, right?
No, not yet. I have to break him of the many bad habits ( IMHO ) that people follow with ALTEC speakers. He is all screwed up as it is now. IMHO. Subwoofers, complains about no " sparkle" up top, etc etc etc.
The ONLY way I can help him, straighten him out, is to finish my new SET DC 2A3 amps, and invite him over for a good A7-800 listen. Then, hopefully, he will get on board. Need to re-do my amps.
Heck, I have two or three months of DIY work ahead , just to get "proper" reference-quality amps. THEN, I will have him visit.
I am only NOW designing these amps' custom Power Transformers.
The amps' direct coupled two stage circuit I have computed and simulated, but there will be brand new lay-out challenges, because I am incorporating experimental ( 1500 Ampere peak ) film caps, in three key / critical power supply locations, and the caps are each very large. Industrial parts , 3 inches in diameter.
We met, face to face, and he saw my set up, so I believe we will have a continuing relationship. LOL, he mildly boasted about owning 2,000 CDs, and so, I refered him to 10,000 LPs in a spare bedroom. Hes a nice guy, electronics technician.
Just need him to "hear it all", as I hope to execute this in the coming months. Some of the crossover mod ideas I had for Model 19s, I HOPE to have the new owner execute at his place. I gifted him with about 100 feet of Mil Spec M22759/11 wire, ( double 12 AWG as lead ins to the crossover's input - and for each woofer polarity, 16 AWG to the 802s ) so that he can totally eliminate every inch of the stock ALTEC internal wiring, as his very first step.
" An inch of bad wire can ruin the musical experience ", Robert W. Fulton 1925-1988.
Jeff ....Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LowOhms
No, not yet. I have to break him of the many bad habits ( IMHO ) that people follow with ALTEC speakers.
Jeff ....Low Ohms
so instead of pointing him towards people with practical experience. you believe you need to indoctrinate this person in your personal beliefs, before he can be trusted not to follow the faulty thinking of the population of this board. is this correct?
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil-G
so instead of pointing him towards people with practical experience. you believe you need to indoctrinate this person in your personal beliefs, before he can be trusted not to follow the faulty thinking of the population of this board. is this correct?
Very good, you got it !!
And I would love to know your definition of "practical experience". Oh.. never mind.
I have been listening to ALTECS for 72 years, and I have been mentored by two of the very best people I have ever personally met, in my entire life, in audio.
You would be cordially invited to hear my rig, A7-800s, in about 4 to 5 months, if you ever get to Kansas City. You, or any serious listener, can be the judge, from your DIRECT ( not perceived - indirect ) experience . The proof of the pudding.....
Jeff Medwin....Low Ohms.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
The Sorcerer's Apprentice. :rolleyes:
(The Disney film, Fantasia, had the very first stereo recording as its soundtrack).
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Going out on a limb here, but the collective practical experience here would be approaching several hundred years. Quite a few of which are from Altec employees, subcontractors, and professional sound technitions.
I figured out I didn't know everything In my thirties.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
I think most of us here have different tastes in equipment, setup, and music. The one thing common being Altec. I think thats what makes us individuals. It would be boring if we all had the same damn setup.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elitopus1
I think most of us here have different tastes in equipment, setup, and music. The one thing common being Altec. I think that is what makes us individuals. It would be boring if we all had the same damn setup.
Nicely put. To have a worthwhile board, each of us should be able to state what they think, respectfully, honestly, and be able to disagree. That way, we interchange ideas and perhaps grow, learn from each other.
There is a HECK of a lot more to putting a good sounding ALTEC system together, IMHO, than the speakers themselves. Every aspect of the audio chain needs to be addressed and properly executed, if one seeks the best achievable result, within the bounds of their financial means and understanding.
Jeff ... Low Ohms
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
But it also means that if someone wants to use lamp cord, or oil caps, maybe even use 515's as subwoofers in their car, they are not wrong. They just have a different opinion of what they like or what sounds good.
-
Re: Mod thoughts, regarding stock ALTEC Model 19 crossovers.
Hmm, I have my limits, a 515 wouldn't last long in a car trunk unless it's a later ferrite motor, so there's a point where gross ignorance of a subject comes into play.
GM