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Hi guys, I just got my MSD BTM installed by Dynamic Autosports and for the vacuum line that runs to the BTM so that it can sense the boost, the mechanic plugged it into some nipple on the throttle body. This doesn't seem to be the correct location to me because the sc is mounted after the throttle body and to me this doesn't seem like it would measure the boost correctly. When I expressed my concern to the mechanic, he told me that everything after the throttle body is one plenum, and that it should be fine.
How can I test to make sure that this vacuum line is connected correctly? I tried to listen for detonation, but I couldn't hear anything while driving. I remember somebody saying that you should be able to feel the BTM retarding the timing while I'm driving by turning the knob back, but I didn't really notice anything. My timing is set to 16 BTDC at the moment and I'm afraid that it's a time bomb just waiting to explode. I bought some octane booster and threw it in to make me feel a little better.
The mechanic told me to run my boost guage connection to the spot on the throttle body that the BTM is connected to at the moment to see if it would register on the guage, but I couldn't find any 1/8" vacuum lines at Kragen or Autozone. The salesperson told me to buy some 5/32, which is slightly bigger, and when I connected it to the guage, it didn't want to read past 0 vacuum/boost. I believe this was because the vacuum line was too big and air was escaping during the boost, but I'm not sure. Can anyone verify whether or not this connection is fine?
Anybody have Jim's number, I figure if anybody can help me, it's him. Thanks. Sorry for the long post.
Jon
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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, RSR Header, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, CRV Crank Pulley(Soon), BTM(soon), J&S(soon)
[This message has been edited by JRSCGSR (edited March 31, 2000).]
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That doesn't sound right to me. I know the bypass valve connects there, but it just uses vacuum to hold the valve open. Vacuum probably goes to zero at that spot, but I don't think it sees boost.
Think about this: On 94-95 GSR's, the vacuum fitting your BTM is connected to goes to the PCS. Do you think the PCS sees boost too?
I would tee off the OEM FPR vacuum line.
And back your timing off to 8-10 degrees until you fix it.
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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC, Walbro regular pressure pump, AEM cai,
RSR headers, Greddy PE, Brembo Cross-Drill rotors,
DC Sports Rear Strut Tower Brace (junk!), Yoko AVSi
Greg Holden's JRSC Install Site
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Have a digital camera? Take a picture and post it.
Easy way to check. Get a friend and put the car in neutral, unplug that vacuum line and put your finger over it while your friend opens the throttle. You should build boost free revving quickly with WOT throttle. Feel boost?
Hooking up the boost meter would be best though.
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Ryan Earl
'99 Turbo SH
NTPOG - North Texas Prelude Owners Group
My Page
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If the nipple from the TB was where the conection was made to the BTM, then the unit will never sense boost! The SC is placed after the TB hence no boost sensed by the MSD. You should tap from the pressure switch w/ a 1/8 tee.
On a sidenote, John how much and where did you buy your MSD6 BTM? Thanks.
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There is no boost at the TB, it must be at the intake manifold.
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If there was boost at the throttle body, our check engine light would go on. That's why the turbo guys have check valves.
I have an MSD 6BTM on my car and connected it to the OEM FPR vacuum hose via 5/32 tee.
I know it works coz I have boost gauge. Also at WOT at full boost, I turn down the retard and I gain power.
However, I'm still running 8BTDC. The moment I go 14BTDC, the engine starts to knock even with 6BTM of max retard. It knocks on tip in, but my A/F meter is reading rich. Anyone got a comment on this?
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To SC SiR:
Are you sure your BTM read all the boost ? Or maybe it's hookup improperly. If you're running 14BTDC, at 6psi the BTM should retard 15 degrees. If I set mine to max, when I start boosting, it's like I'm holding the brake at the same time. I never had to go higher than .8 degree per pound of boost, and I'm running 16BTDC.
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To 24 PSI, and beyond !
HS Le Club
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I have some knock at tip in shown on the J&S but nothing that i can hear. i am running 14BTDC with about 3/4 degree retard per pound on the 6btm. I have my FP set at 66psi which helped a little (up from 62psi) Just easy into the throttle till about 4000rpm and then i do not show any knock.
I will play with the Vtec controller on the way home from work tonite to see if that make a diff.
k
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Project Dark Side is Here!!!
JRSC 8psi, Walbro HP pump, MSD BTM, J&S, STR rail, etc...
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Correct boys !!! No boost is seen at the throttle body and/or gooseneck... only vaccuum thru zero boost (atmospheric pressure). I hate to hear that a shop as big as Dynamic could make a huge blunder like that. You must get manifold pressure...
Zip - I really like that idea to use the "Tee" at the pressure switch hole... mind if I use it ???
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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Okay, just wanted to thank all you guys for the quick responses. I just got back from Dynamic and they fixed the problem. THey tapped into the OEM FPR line, I believe. There were two vacuum lines leading out of the manifold, one goes to the JR FPR and my boost guage is there, so they tapped into the second vacuum line. Looks like it leads to the original FPR, so everything is all good now. Thanks to everybody for the input. My car now feels so much nicer from the start, no hesitation at all, I like...
Zip - I didn't get the 6BTM, I just got the BTM because I couldn't justify dropping 330 bucks at Summit, so I just got the BTM for like 160 plus handling I think.
Jon
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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, RSR Header, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, CRV Crank Pulley(Soon), BTM(soon), J&S(soon)
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To Civic TSI:
How do I check if it is reading all the boost? Right now, I have it Tee'd into the vac hose that goes between the OEM FPR and JRSC intake manifold. I'm using a 1/8" vac hose to connect it to the 6BTM.
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Hmmm...I need you opinion guys, should I get the 6BTM or just the BTM? I'm going to run 10psi soon, so will I need a better spark than OEM?
BTW, Jon how was the installation? Where is it tapped before or after the J&S? Thanks.
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If you have a problem with Dynamic's installation and you are looking for help than why dont you take it back there? You got to bad mouth the installation on the net so that everyone can see? wassup with that? If you going to talk about it than at least have the courtesy to not say the name of the shop and make them look like a bunch of dumb a**es. If its like that then dont go back to that shop and keep you inconsiderate a** shut. People like you is what make mechanics hate customers so much.
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zip:
If you have the extra cash I'd go with the 6BTM. I have a B16A with a JRSC with timing at 8BTDC. Naturally, the off idle response was slow because of the retarded timing. Adding the 6BTM w/o advancing the timing helped some. That is w/o the SC making boost.
Now I just have to advance the timing and start working on the tuning of the boost retard protion.
I'd also recommend an external coil if you get the 6BTM. My past car, I installed an MSD 6A which is essentially the same as the 6BTM (sparkwise). Initially, I installed it using the stock coil which is perfectly acceptable. The OEM coil burned out within a day. I may have gotten a marginal OEM coil, but I didn't want to take the risk the second time around ($50). I just bought a Blaster 2 coil for that car. Presently I run a Blaster SS coil.
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"If you have a problem with Dynamic's installation and you are looking for help
than why dont you take it back there?"
Those morons, after he expressed his concerns, assured him that everything was fine. That's why!
"You got to bad mouth the installation on
the net so that everyone can see?"
I WANT to hear who to be carefull dealing with.
"wassup with that?"
Public Service, IMHO.
"If you going to talk about it than at least have the courtesy to not say the name of the shop and make them look like a bunch of dumb a**es."
Then his post would have all the validity of a MotorTrend review. The mechanic who did that deserves to look like a dumb ass.
"If its like that then dont go back to that shop and keep you inconsiderate a** shut."
And let others get screwed in a similar fashion? How nice.
"People like you is what make mechanics hate customers so much."
No. People like him are what make BAD MECHANICS hate customers so much. Good mechanics keep their customers happy in the first place.
Anyone else want to chime in?
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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC, Walbro regular pressure pump, AEM cai,
RSR headers, Greddy PE, Brembo Cross-Drill rotors,
DC Sports Rear Strut Tower Brace (junk!), Yoko AVSi
Greg Holden's JRSC Install Site
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To SC SiR:
If you have a boost gauge, tee-it before the BTM. Also make sure that the connections of your retard knob are ok.
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To 24 PSI, and beyond !
HS Le Club
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Thanks for the backup Holden. Heh B16A, what crawled up your a$$? I was simply stating how the mechanic installed the BTM incorrectly and how the mechanic still believed he was correct. I posted to the board so that I could get an idea before I talked to the mechanic again. I'm simply letting people know whats up with the shop in case they might want to go there.
I have nothing against Dynamic, I totally understand how the mechanic messed up. They're too used to doing turbo installs, they had 6 turbo cars when I rolled in the last two days. I'd say they're experienced as hell with them, but they didn't know much about my setup. I'm not hating here, they're customer service was commendable and when I went back to tell them it was incorrect, they fixed it in like 5 minutes. I'm not bad mouthing Dynamic here, instead I'd actually recommend them if you need serious work here in Southern California. They're prices are very reasonable and they're experienced. They're shop is the most professional import racing shop I've been to, and the guys there are really friendly. If you have a problem with this board sharing this kind of information, you can just kindly leave... I don't understand whats wrong with you unless you're one of the mechanics at Dynamic, hmmm.....
Jon
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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, RSR Header, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, MSD BTM, CRV Crank Pulleyy(Soon), J&S(soon)
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zip - the BTM is installed in the engine bay, but I think it changes the timing a different way than the J&S unit does. I believe Heretic is running the setup and he says that they both do their jobs independently of each other. I haven't put in my J&S yet, so I'll see once I get it done, hopefully within the month.
Jon
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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, RSR Header, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, MSD BTM, CRV Crank Pulleyy(Soon), J&S(soon)
