Taking a break from the kit... ?

I'm wondering what the general concensus is about consistent playing. I think that the whole 8-hours a day thing is a bit over-rated, though I used to do that as a teenager. How often do you guys play and also how often to you go a day or two without touching the drums?

I saw a Weckl clinic recently and he said that he plays/or/practices everyday and that there might only be a few days of the year when he dosen't have sticks in his hands. I can understand that, at his calibur... but then on the other hand Stewart Copeland stashed his drums away in a closet for TEN YEARS, and then returns to drumming just fine!

For me, as a drummer, I feel a responsibility to play/practice everyday - but I really don't... unless I have rehersals or gigs. If I (for some reason) go a week without playing, I notice it. A day or two is OK. Though in an indeal situation I'd like to have a practice routine again and play regularly, but believe or not: there is more to life than just drumming! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Again, if a great drummer can take a break for a decade and still be able to play, maybe this whole 8-hour a day thing is a little bit overkill. What do you think?

You should never base your own needs on what someone else has done. Doesn't matter if copeland never touched his drums for 10 years and then came back to it note perfect.That's him. He's unique and you're unique. One person may need to practise 8 hours a day, another may only need an hour a day. It comes down to how much you want to progress and not stay at the skill level you're at, and how fast or slow you can learn and develop new skills at the drumkit. That's my take on it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's pretty much my point too... did Stewart Copeland need to practice 8 hours a day? Nope!

Of course, he is VERY unique... and I am not saying that I want to quit or take a ten year break, cause I certainly do not want that at all... I just wanted peoples input on how often they practice/play and if they have ever, like stewart, taken a break.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 08, 2004 06:52 PM: Message edited by: CLWarunki ]</font>

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Originally posted by CLWarunki:
That's pretty much my point too... did Stewart Copeland need to practice 8 hours a day? Nope!


<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ December 08, 2004 06:52 PM: Message edited by: CLWarunki ]</font></font>

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe he did practise 8 hours day leading up to his awesome talent? After that though, coming back to drums after 10 years, I'm guessing his chops were much the same if he never went back to a hard practise regime. The players like weckl and vinnie though that continually practise everyday reach newer levels all the time.

To answer your question more specifically, I, like you, feel a duty as a drummer to practise a lot everyday, but I don't practise that much anymore because I simply got lazy. [img]frown.gif[/img]

I think , like Rudy, that not every drummer needs the same practice hours. I remember the early years, I would practice about four hours in a closed up studio, and the reason I did not advance in my playing, is that I was always playing the things I already know.

Of course, you get to be great at that particular beat, in my case, the one-hand shuffle. But, if I was to practice one hour on things I was not good at, then that hour would have been better than the four I was used to doing.

I am told that guys like Virgil practice 8 hour a day ! I guess that it does it for Virgil. But, it would seem to me that getting out of the practice room once in a while, and trying to live a little and enjoy other things like sports, taking in a good film, driving in the country, would be welcome ! Then , when you get back to the kit, your head is clear, and ready to take on new challenges when it comes to playing new rhythms, etc.

And as Rudy says, what's good for one drummer is not necessary good for the other. Some drummers find it easy to learn new things. But, if you are not one of them, take it easy...
the main thing is that you ARE a drummer and sitting behind the kit is a dream for many people out there.

I think the points mentioned above are spot on.

Here's my 2 cents:

I definately think that practicing regularly is the key. Playing every day is fine, however playing for example only on weekdays is also something worth considering. It all depends on how focused you are when practicing.

At the moment I an on a "forced" break. I am at university here in Montreal and currently have no place to practice. But being realistic, I also have no time to practice at the moment. My studying is simply too demanding - the one time I do have spare time, I sleep or watch TV just to relax. Sometimes Ill go running too. Bottom line is, I havent played since August 20th. I get home on the 19th of December and have my practicing routine planned out perfectly already. I cant wait! I think about drumming every day. Its been killing me inside that I cant play here...YET.

Although this has been a rough time, I think it might just be a good thing. Thing is, now Im really motivated to go back to practicing.

Also: When youre practicing a certain style, technique or whatever and you're stuck or frustrated with it: Just take one or two days off. A break will sometimes be of great benefit.

-Suspiria

Hey Suspiria,

I'm surprised you still have not found a place to practice in Montreal ! I guess it's your studies that are taking up your time.

Did you get that Annual Guide I told you about ? In it there are many possibilities in the Montreal area. When you get back from your holidays, take a look at this guide. There's even a chapter on rehearsal studios who rent by the hour.

Another idea: I heard that Pro-Mark sells a "silent" kit for the apartment or room, wher you cannot make any noise.

Great posts guys. I have to agree with the consensus: different strokes for different folks.
For me there is a point of diminishing returns if I practice too long. In short, an hour or two of productive practice is better than 8 hours of noodling. I feel like I get a lot more accomplished in a short spurt of focused concentrated practice rather than just winging it for a long period of time.JMHO

A few years ago I would only practice on the weekends for sometimes up to 6 or 8 hours a day. I also played in a band on weekends but felt this was still not enough to move my playing forward. I definitely feel that practicing something every day is more beneficial. Again, JMHO.

I get a lot from mental practice which is what I spend most of the time doing during my day at work. Something as simple as humming a song, motif, or pure drumnistic lick helps me greatly when I get to the practice room.

Funny you mention this, i am on a break also. I haven't been away from the sticks or longer than two weeks, ever since i started playing. I usually practice every single day, a minimum of 2 hours, a max of 4. Average... typically 3 to 3 and a half. The last three weeks, i have just been burnt out. I was going like a mad man the last month. Composing on the computer for about 6-8 hours, then on the set for about 4-6 hours. It just took it out of me. This is great, however, because i do need to step away and get that inspiration back. Sometimes i have my life revolve around practice, that i lose focus on other things. This next week i am planning on getting back into it. When i am 'on it', as far as my routine, i never miss a day. If i do, it makes me feel all weird the next day. However, this little break i am on, i am using it to inspire me. Enjoy free time, see shows, go to the drum shop and not worry about getting home to shed. Play basketball, hang with friends... all the stuff that is on the back burner when i am in the practice routine, i am making time for it now. Little moments like this are the fuel to my fire that can last for months after this. I am more productive when i have a fire inside me, than when i just do it to 'do it'.
However, i think when you are serious about your playing, make a serious effort to make time, everyday. I have worked 70 hours a week, been married, and still had time to shed everyday, and do it productively. Having the discipline is more than just getting things worked out on the set, it is being able to know how to be serious, keep pushing that stone uphill. It is a symbiotic relationship. Having that discipline gives back to you, i think, in more ways that chops. When i have been on the set alot, and had myself just focused, it gives me confidence. When i haven't been dedicated, i don't feel like i have earned this gig, or that gig. When i am in the practice zone, i am like: "Ok, oh, you need me to read that crazy chart, ok, i'll do it". When i am not in the zone, and haven't been putting my time in, my confidence is messed up, i get overwhelmed instead of meeting the challenge head-on like i should, i get down on myself. You pay psychological dues as well when you are 'on it', not just musical and physical ones. However, when i just have NO inspiration, it is ok to just go out, live life, come back and feel fresh again. Just make sure when you come back to the routine, you are willing to 'do it right' when you are back. No noodling! I would rather spend productive time when i am 'on' and just step away for a period of weeks when i am 'off'.
Get myself inspired and ready for another round!
That is what i am doing now and i love it [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Sounds good Matricks. Cant believe you were still practicing during a 70 hour work week...Now thats dedication!

Anyway wanted to make another comment:

Some ppl mentioned people like Donati playing 8 hours every day. Dont forget that these players are out of our league. They are out of the league of 95% or more of all drummers. You dont get to that level unless you dedicate your life to drumming. While your playing may end up being the best in the world, I sometimes wonder what these guys have in life.

I mean theres always fans telling them they're great, but what else do they have? I find it hard to believe that they can build and take care of true friendships and even marriages or family life.

Some people forget that the only thing these people do is drumming - The cost for becoming so good is definately VERY high.

My 70 hours work weeks and then practicing... It could be called dedication... or OCD!!!
As far as the upper echelon of players... in talking to alot of them, i think it is more about efficiency than long days. I don't even think guys like Lang, well, i know for a fact that Lang and Marco and guy like that don't do 8 hour days. They just do consistent hard work. I think that is what it is about. You don't see people in Med. school sluffin'... why should those who want to be great drummer be any different. If you just take it seriously and sit down, do your work, bust ass and then put it away for the day and go and live life... that is the way to do it. (I am still kinda trying to do that!)
More on this later...

One more quick thing.
I have some people i know who have some nice chops... funny thing is, is that those who may not have as many chops as the others, but are out there being cool people, being social, making friends playing music and having fun, doing the whole experience... Well, i tend to dig the chops that they DO have more than the others'. In one case i have a friend who takes MUSIC seriously. He practices alot, but not insane amounts of time... but he is always gigging. My other buddy takes his CHOPS very seriously... gigs less because he wants to be in the basement shedding. Well, friend #2 could throw down some stuff that would cause my other friend, #1-the musical one, to have to sit there and bow down, however... The buddy of mine who is more musically oriented and doesn't do the hermit thing, he just sounds hipper. He can throw down those things that make your whole body go "Yeah!", and not just appeal to the chops parts of your brain that only gives props to polyrhythms over groups of 13's! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
It is a whole experience. As we know, there is alot more to music than just show-off skills. I mean, of course know how to play your instrument and always develope that. However, taking time to be a people person that is great to work with cause they can hang... gigs right there if you can do that. Having taken time to rekindle the passion for music and keep it from being something stale that you have programmed yourself to do.
It is hard for me to always remember that music is more than how well you can pull off what you know. I always have to remind myself that it is interaction, not only in the musical language but interaction in general. There are so many facets to becoming 'good'... if you are serious about music then you will know how much you need to work on your stuff, your chops, and you will do it because you KNOW from knowing yourself and knowing others. You will also be able to glean something from those times when the sticks ain't in your hands. I get inspired when i am just out living life, experiencing things. THEN i come home and try to learn how to translate that and find out what i have to do to acheive that.
Chops are just to get what in on the inside, to the outside. If you don't live life and aren't filled up with it, then what is there on the inside that needs to get out? Just having chops is like reading the dictionary aloud. Musicality is telling a story with those words. Home alone time on the set is my grammar lesson, eveything else is story time.
Look at Elvin... that guy had so much inside that it just flowed out of him. He didn't have crazy chops, didn't have a vocabulary that was huge by today's standards, BUT, he had so much to say that he couldn't help but say it... it had to be said and it was. You may have a high performance vehicle, but if there is no gas in the tank, it ain't goin' nowhere. If you ain't filled up, then you're empty... gotta have something to say if you wanna speak or else no one's gonna wanna listen...

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Originally posted by Groovissimo:
Hey Suspiria,

I'm surprised you still have not found a place to practice in Montreal ! I guess it's your studies that are taking up your time.

Did you get that Annual Guide I told you about ? In it there are many possibilities in the Montreal area. When you get back from your holidays, take a look at this guide. There's even a chapter on rehearsal studios who rent by the hour.

Another idea: I heard that Pro-Mark sells a "silent" kit for the apartment or room, wher you cannot make any noise.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi there. You're right, the only reason I dont have a place yet is because I havent found the time. It looks like it will have to be something Ill take care of when Im back in January. Ive sent an email to Steve's store, but havent had a reply in over a week - its probably best to call the number you gave me. Ill do that before I leave. Im sure Ill find a place! I hope you know your efforts were really appreciated.

I think that there is a difference between practicing and playing. I'm in a band and when I'm at the gig, I play. Practicing is doing something you don't how to do well. Guys like Virgil are probably practicing, but I bet they're doing more playing than practicing. Playing is fun, practicing is work. I watched the pearl videos of virgil and it looked like he was playing or trying to work something out. It was fantastic, but it didn't do a lot for me. Especially the double hi hat thing he was doing.

The point is that I think those guys to a lot of practicing, but at the same time I don't think they're doing it 8 hours a day. Virgil maybe explore ideas that resemble practicing. To have the independence that those guys have, you could definatley "practice" for 8 hours a day and come up with some really cool stuff, but then again you could come up with some crap that is technically hard, but is really just a bunch of bullshit that goes no where. Which is pretty much what i thought of some of the Pearl Vid. Could I do it? No, but that doesn't mean I think its great or would I want to play like that. The technique is great, but what is played with the technique is what is important.
Guys like Vinnie really have a knack for playing in a certain way that is appealing. There's a "quality" about him and his playing. I think it's more about listening to what you're playing and figuring out what is bullshit and what is cool sounding. That's the key to practicing. Work at things you can't do, don't practice what you already know.

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Originally posted by D.Seipel:
That's the key to practicing. Work at things you can't do, don't practice what you already know.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">While I fully agree with you, I think its important to include what I'd call "jamming time" into your practice routine. I'd say that especially for beginners its important to have fun while practicing. I mean, we've all had moments where you just want to through your sticks against the wall, kick the snare out of your way and storm off. This is where jamming should come in. Just play along to some tunes or play whatever comes to mind.

Only practicing things you are not good at may improve youre playing, but Id imagine that can get you frustrated and disappointed at the same time.

While the weighting should be on focused "practicing", dont forget to have fun too!
I am of the opinion that a positive attitude while make you a lot more productive!

well said. I agree. I've been trying to improve a lot of things like technique, for the last 5 years, I've been lazy. Now I'm trying to learn new things and feeling really crippled at some things. Jazz independence from the Chaffee books is killing me, lol.

As we get older we tend to practice less because life takes over and there are those commitments to loved ones jobs etc. that tend to, firstly, take up a lot of your time and, secondly, will wear you out to the point where you just need time to chill. I encourage anyone who is in the formative years of study or early career to put in those heavy hours now even if you do tend to shed the same stuff over. This is the ideal time to be spending a lot of time working on your craft. As long as you are aware of what you are doing and not developing detrimental habits then play for 4 to 8 hours. But do it because YOU WANT to do it not because you feel you have to. As far as time away goes, I don't like to take time off from regular gigging but there are going to be those lean times. It's the nature of the beast. My recommendation there is to not force any breaks on yourself when you are in those formative years unless you really feel like you're in a deep rut. Sometimes a few days to a couple weeks away from it can really be refreshing. Yes it takes a little time to blow the dust off but it all comes back faster than you expect. But, like I say don't force those breaks on yourself as the business will do it for you. I have seen the busiest musicians suddenly with no gig for as long as two months. I have also experienced the converse; I had a seemingly bleak post holiday situation where my calendar was empty from Jan. to early March. I began getting calls to sub for this guy and that guy because of the flu season. My calendar filled up fast that year.

And don't think that just because you're not physically sitting at the kit hitting things doesn't mean you can't be practicing. Any musical activity can be considered practice; transcribing, mental practice (visualisation), watching instructional videos or simply active listening with an open ear and mind. There are even times when slapping your thighs at a stop light can improve your drumming (that's how I first developed the coordination to play songo some years ago). If you ever take a road gig this will probably be the only "practice" you will get. Your bandmates will get very tired of hearing that incessant practice pad in the back of the bus and will toss it right out the window.

But yes, I agree it's an individual thing for everyone. The ratio of "work on it" to "blow it off" is different for everyone and to judge one's musical worth or to question one's dedication based on how much time he or she spends with their instrument is ludicrous. It's YOUR life. If you enjoy playing drums for 8 hours a day then do it. If you enjoy playing drums 8 hours a week and the rest of the time you enjoy something else then do it. We turn 50 quite suddenly and realize that "If I spent less time playing drums I could have done this," or, the other side of the coin, "If I had spent more time practicing I could have been this kind of player." Do what makes you happy now and you'll be less bitter as a senior citizen later.

Great post Rhythmatist. Now I'm only 18 at this point, but I can relate to most of what you're saying. I totally agree that its probably best to take advantage of the free-time I or others my age have now. That being said, my studies at university are really occupying. At times when I do have free time, I am usually too burnt out to play. Many of you know that learning something new requires full alertness of your brain or you'll never make it.

Just remember that like anything else, it's the quality not quantity of practice that counts. As long as there's some progression happening, even if you're doing the same-old same old if there is some aspect of it that's improving then it's probably time well spent. For instance, if you're working on some independence thing and you have it at a slow tempo but gradually over time are able to get it to the tempo you originally targeted, and have it spot on time with the metronome then there was some amount of success even though it may take weeks to get there. Sometimes, it's those slow progressions that pave the way to greater successes down the road.

I'd also like to go on record as saying I also support Suspiria's idea of "jamming time" in the practice routine. It's very helpful for learning song forms if you "think" a tune in your head as you play to it. It also forces you to think musically as you play. It's also helpful to apply what you are currently working on to this as well by using the ideas, exercises, concepts, licks etc. within these tunes in your head as this will force you to use them as if it were a real playing situation. And don't forget to sometimes let out all the stops and play a solo from hell now and then to just let your inner child get off. It can be very therapeutic.

That last point was a good one. I had a great teacher once who kicked my ass at that concept... just making music, having fun. He was a great teacher all around but one time in particular comes to mind. We start the lesson and i mention how i am burned out... he responds to that with,
"Ok, well then how about you just playing something that means something".
Ok, so i do, and at the end he says,
"Ok, that is great, but now play something that MEANS SOMETHING... i don't wanna hear chops. Come here for a minute..."
So he has me walk over across the room and he tells me to hold the sticks out and wave them around, really flail them around, and just walk toward the set... then he turns out the lights. I do it and walk right into the set, "CRASH, BANG, SPSSSHHH, CRACK, BOOM"... knocking over a cymbal stand, and almost tripping over the bass drum. He turns the light on and says,
"Ok, see how that sounded so vivid... like you could see those things falling over even though the lights were out? Paint a vivid picture now... i don't wanna 'see' chops, i wanna see something that MEANS something".
So he has me sit down and hold the sticks like clubs, haha, and tells me to play like that... like a caveman hitting someone with a bone. No stick control, no chops, no worries about timing, nothing... just say something and make it count.
So i start to play like he said... just started trying to say something and man, after about 1 minute i was SOOOO into it... free from chops, time, all that... just hitting stuff with emotion and meaning.
He's yelling from across the room,
"Yeah man, yeah, beat the shit out of um, knock that shit over if you have to!!! YEAH!!!"...and it was his nice set that he wanted me to do that to [img]wink.gif[/img]
It was funny because i really, in my whole life, had never NOT worried about chops, or how this or that was correct or not; here i was in front of this great drummer, who usually i would be trying to play pefect for, and he is telling me to play with no thought except to 'tell him something on those drums'... it really showed me something.
Now i try to do that once in a while... remind myself how those things can sound when you let go of inhibition and say something. In life and in painting; lines, shape, and form are as much defined by the space inside as they are by the negative space on the outside. Same goes for music... they define each other, one is no more important than the other... we just tend to think one is because it dazzles our senses more; as i said with painting... we may be enamored with all the beautiful colors on the inside of the lines, lest we forget the lines which give them their shape are defined by the colorless which tell them their bounds.
Sometimes you need to speak eloquently, sometimes you just need to yell "F*CK" really, really loud...

But Zappa says it best:
"You can't always write a chord ugly enough to say what you want to say, so sometimes you have to rely on a giraffe filled with whipped cream."

Sometimes it?s good to get away from the instruemtn. That way one is fresh when one returns. Dennis Chambers does this, and he doesn?t seem to be lacking in ideas.

I think the important thing is not how often we do something, but by how well and intently we do it. It?s like being with a special someone -- if you don?t mean it, don?t say/do it. Insincerity is unattractive in one?s playing or relationships.

If the case of practice, I?d say this means doing it when you have a specific goal to work on ? and working on it smartly. Also, work on what you are not good at. That way you develop.

Having said that, regular research seems to lead to new areas to explore.