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I hear a lot of people, especially of late talking about 1/4 mile times and trap speeds, wanting better times, better trap speeds.
Pardon my venting, but here's my take.
1: Front wheel drive cars don't make good drag race cars. Oh they can, but it's not a daily driver when your done.. well at least not tuned to daily driving.
2: Drag racing numbers are NOT good dyno numbers. 80% of drag racing is in the 1st 60 feet. It's all about the hookup, and that first shift into second. After that my grandma could drive it.
3: Reality? When on the street do you get to race someone, at a stop, with a light, totally even? Why is it some aspire to acheive drag strip times when for the street car, it's never a reality when racing.
4: Because it's all about the hook-up, why do people rate the performance of the car based on the hook-up. After all, with the exception of that hookup, I can beat many, many cars that normally would take me on the drag strip. I can take a civic, drop the clutch at 7,000 RPM with VERY sticky, VERY wide drag tires and get into the 14's, does it mean my car is fast? NO!
5: Have you drag racers autocrossed? You've got to try it! If you have and prefer drag racing, that's fine. Most though, I think haven't tried.
6: Finally, I've gone to the strip. It's fun... but not as fun as solo II, IMO. I drag race on occation because it's fun!..., but I don't take my times that serious because I know it's no dyno, and it's not reality, not at least for a street car like mine.
Had to vent.
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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page
[This message has been edited by lundgren (edited January 13, 2000).]
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Umm, your mistaken, just because a FR drive would beat a FF drive car, it doesn't mean drag racing for FF should be just ruled out, you have a very narrow view, 1/8 th and 1/4 th mile times not reality? where are you racing in your dreams? AutoX is fun, but not for me as drag racing isn't for you. Don't knock something when you know so very little about it and just cause you don't like it. I take offense to your post. I know many people with nice et's in the quarter mile that daily drive a FF drive car. What next? FR drive car not being a good drag race car because it wouldn't do as well as a very nice AWD car? oh get a clue.. It's a sport just like AutoX and has been around longer, if it was not enjoyable you would not see so many people in FF drive cars participating in it. Yep, sure does take a lot of money and time to maybe make a FF drive car/4 cyl. run but couple years ago and even now it takes a lot more to make a small block ford run as fast as a big block chevy. You don't see people not building fords do you? I'm sorry but your just full of it. I'm tired of people knocking Imports as drag race cars just because they don't think they could run as hard. Not very smart.
Just look at a 700 hp ford that many people might have, do you see them running insanely fast times in the quarter? Look at jotech they're running a 9.6 on 550 HP, RWD cars lose just as much traction as FWD cars when things start getting much faster. next year we will be seeing 8 second imports. FWD, you don't see very many RWD 8 second cars do you? not a very smart post if you ask me.
bryan
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No, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to offend. You see, I know that there are people who enjoy drag racing. I appologize if I sound like I'm knocking import drag racing, I'm a fan. If there are those who are offended please accept my apology, I'm not knocking the sport, just it's application and adoption to real day driving.
My post was directed to the translation of drag racing results to real driving performance. Which in my opinion cannot be made.
A drag race car is tuned much differently than a daily driver for performance, and that is more true with a FF car. I just see so many people that live and die by their ETA's, relating them to their cars daily drivability and are not focused on the beauty of imports... the drive, not the hookup.
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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page
[This message has been edited by lundgren (edited January 13, 2000).]
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I love to drag and autocross... I actually like to antocross a little more, but I think there is one main reason why people always quote their drag times: Everyone can compare times with each other, were all on the same playing field (basicly). You cant compare autocross times on different tracks for obvious reasons.
That said, which of my #'s do you find more interesting:
Last autox: 1:31.4 sec on street tires.
or
Last drag: 13.9 @103 on street tires.
I think you see my point...
[This message has been edited by revHIGH (edited January 13, 2000).]
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You bring up a good point, and I agree... all things being equal. But I think they are not as comparable as you think. The only thing that is being compared is the ability of that driver and car to hookup good, and is not a true refection of the cars street performance. You really cannot compare the performance of two integra's, let say, only how each driver can drag race each car. It wouldn't really say that one car is a better performer though than another.
Of course all my statements are totally based on weather we are driving steeet cars that are taken to the track, or pure track cars.
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"but I don't take my times that serious because I know it's no dyno, and it's not reality, not at least for a street car like mine."
IMO drag racing has much more pertinence to the real world meaning of "fast" than dyno numbers do.
The example of the Civic with grippy tires and a good launch hitting 14's and not being fast confuses me. Imagine this scenario:
Left lane is a JRSC GSR running 8 psi and putting down 230 hp to the wheels. Nice dyno sheet, should be fast.
He lines up against a stock automatic Civic DX with a 50 shot of NOS and some sticky tires.
The DX does a neutral drop and gets an awesome launch and starts spraying. The GSR spins in first, hits the revlimiter, spins 2nd, hits the revlimiter again. The whole time the Civic is slowly putting on distance.
The Civic ends up keeping the lead and getting a better ET, let's say low 15's. The GSR gets a better trap speed, but a mid 15 ET.
Who was quicker down the strip? Who is making by far the most hp?
My point is, dyno numbers are great for bench racing and bragging but that's it. When it comes down to it the only thing that shows who has the fastest car is a race. Be it on the track or the street.
I will agree that AutoXing looks very fun. IMO more fun than drag racing, but sadly there isn't much of an AutoX scene around here http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif.
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what ever floats ur boat, do it. but lungren, then again, when do i street race through a bunch of cones?
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DefAcura: That's to bad that there isn't much autocross... you've got to try it.
What I meant by my statement was that a run down the drag strip doesn't say much about how the car performs on the street. I don't see many races with civics running 13 inch racing slicks. I also don't see a lot of races from a light, dead even from a stop races.
Street races don't even say how a car performs, but my point was I see all the time, someone says "Hey I got into the 14's" What they don't say is the dropped the cluctch with gum on the rims, at 7,000 RPM. The same car with street tires neck to neck with another car going 45, then hitting the gas may get killed. This isn't as true for autocrossed tuned cars, since the whole point of a drag race is hooking up. Once you do that the rest is just racing.
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I probably will try Auto X as soon as there's a chance, but seriously, I think some people that dragging for granted, they say all u do is step on the pedal. I mean, thats basically it, but its not that easy to get the perfect 60ft etc. if i was so, we'd all be hit times that the car & driver guys are hitting. and also to ur dyno is reality, Craig Paisley put it best when he said " the 1320 is my dyno." The ability to drive a car to its limits is what makes a car go fast, not just some number.
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gsr98: Your close, but that wasn't exactly what I was saying.
If someone tunes a car for autocross, it's made to to brake fast, handle well for a variety of situations, accelatate quick at any speed and in general be a well balanced car. This car, when not driving through codes will also perform very well on the street.
The drag race car that is also street legal, has been tuned to hook up well, but also has been tuned to drive fast in a straight line. How many street races, or general street driving environment involve racing from a standing stop, in a straight line. Not many where I live.
This is not a drag vs autocross statement, simply a statement about how a tuned drag race car does not equal good street car. Both sports have there place, but you cannot project a drag racing car as an ideal street car.
I spend a lot more time on the street than I do drag racing. I also spend much more time on the street than autocrossing. But at least the mods I make for the autocross course also benifit me on the street. Not all drag racing mods do.
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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page
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gsr98: Drag racing isn't easy. I thought it was very hard to control the car just right to get the best times. The part I didn't like, and this is my personal preference for me, was it was all in controlling the launch, that's it... after that it really didn't matter.
But that really wasn't my point. If people like drag racing that's fine, but a fast drag car isn't a fast street car.
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i think this is a kinda no win situation, hey if ur winning races over where u live thats a good setup, with my basic mods, im winning some here. it depends on where ur racing. But most people don't daily drive drag suspension cars on the road, they might stiffin up their rear suspension, but when its time to go home, most of them change itback. So at the least, most drag racer will handle like stock. also, in freeway driving most drag racers tune their cars to get maximum power at high end, and high end is pretty much all there is in freeway racing. i understand ur point fully though.
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Call me a barbarian but I dig street racing even if it illegal and doesn't mean my car is fast or I'm a good driver. I get off on racing someone and blowing them away. I'm sure AutoX is fun as hell and I'll probably get into it but the rush from blowing someone from the street away is sweet.
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Silvino Orozco
'97 Integra GS-R w/JRSC,JR Fuel pump, AEM Cold Air Intake, Powerstop rotors/Axxis Metal Master brake pads, A'PEXi Dunk Exhaust, J&S Safeguard unit
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I totally agree. Hey! It's all good!
Don't race where you can hurt others though please. And please don't hurt yourself.
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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page
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As for dyno, yea it shows nothing, even with corrected conditions still shows nothing, autocross shows nothing as it's on a good surface, not real world conditions just as drag racing is. If you run on street tires at a drag strip you will get more accurate times than a autocross, if this was not true than why would manufactors even bother to post quarter mile times 60 ft. times etc.. You can not say a autocross car will perform better on street than a drag race car as in both situations they are setup for specific applications, you wont see a first place autocrosser in the higher classes driving her or his car around with the same setup on the street or even on the street at all. So what you say is completely flawed, as to a cars straight line performance, a run at the drag strip will show more accurate estimations of how it would do in a street race, as most if not all are straight line, some from a dead stop, etc.. big picture of it all is it's stupid to try and compare anything to street other than how it performs on a street.
bryan
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Sorry, but a couple of points:
Drag Racing has not been around longer than Autocross. Autocross in it's current form can be traced back to the earliest forms of Performance Driving Tests and Exhibitions from the early 1900's. The 1320 is younger by almost 40 years.
As for Drag Racing meaning all things else being equal. UNNHHH...WRONG...PLAY AGAIN... Who can say that the track surface, temp, humidity, barametric pressure, all of these things don't affect the times. Sure, if you are all at the strip at the same day, but then the same could be said for AutoX. And actually, even then you should get rid of the driver, cqause I might only be able to get a 14 out of a car where someone else could get a 13.5
I know what Lundgren is getting at. It seems we have had more and more people disappointed and looking elsewhere just cause they couldn't hit some magical number in a contest that really isn't ideal for FF cars. Sure, it may be a challenge to run a FF in the 1/4, but it shouldn't surprise people if they can't get it into the 12's with a few thousand dollars in mods.
I love autox, I am a vicous street racer (and not just stoplights, I like 145mph on the freeway), but I only like Drag racing. I am sorry, but I agree with Lundgren that the AutoX and the Street Racer tell more about the car and the driver than a trip down the strip!
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Whew! We have some pretty passionate feelings on both ends of the debate. One thing that we all can probably agree on is that one of the most significant performance upgrades for any car in any event is the driver.
I have never been to a drag strip, but I have autocrossed regularly and I LOVE it. The only bigger thrill was the 2 day driving school, but doing that regularly would be too expensive and I fear, too hard on my daily driver.
I can't wait for this weekend's BMWCCA autocross. I plan on eating some M3s for lunch - Gsrev, ya gonna be there!?!
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Tom
1996 Cypress Green Pearl Acura Integra 4 DR
JRSC with JR fuel pump upgrade
J&S Safeguard
Tokico Illumina Shocks & Eibach Pro-kit Springs
Dunlop D60/A2 JLBs (205 50 15) on stock 15 x 6 wheels (street)
Kumho V700 Victoracers (205 50 15) on 15x7 rims (autocross)
Century infant and booster child seats in back!
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Sorry Geek, but I think drag racing is probably the oldest form of auto racing there is. Drag racing dates back to the first time two guys got their horseless carriages together and thought, "hey lets see which one is faster!"
Hence, drag racing is born.... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
Usually, the people who talk crap about drag racing are usually fit into the following categories:
A)Have never tried it.
B)Tried it and sucked at it. Then try to play it off as being beneath them and not worth their time.
Im proud to say that i have done both. Both are more fun than a barrel of monkeys. But to say one is better than the other is rediculous. They are both fun in their own way, and most guys i know do both. Come spring, I will be doing both as well.
Honestly, the setups I see some of these guys running in autox wouldn't be advisable on the street, unless of course you have the spare duckets to buy new tires every other week.
Seriously though, if we are talkin street cars here, the only classes I can visualize a street car being competitive in autox is either stock or street prepared. Even then, i think street prep would be a stretch for a daily driver. In either case, you are limited in what you can do to your car. You can of course compete in one of those mod classes, but I don't think getting my butt kicked week after week would be very fun. You could of course run in a class where you have no competition, but I'd think that would be kinda lame too, don't ya think? Having no competition, or being totally uncompetitive kinda degrades the spirit of the activity if you ask me.
Drag racing however is an entirely different proposition. Basically you can do whatever you want and drive whatever you want and still be competitive in drag racing. That is the beauty of bracket racing. Hell, you could race a moped and still be competitive. You just need to be consistent and aware of what you and your vehicle are capable of.
By the way, drag racing involves a little more than just "hooking up". That statement is one of pure ignorance, definately words of a man that fits in category A.
Case in point, last Saturday I was out a the street races in south Vegas. Some dude came out with a Saleen mustang that night. This beast was sporting a blown 351 (and a host of other undisclosed mods I'm sure) One thing was for sure, this car was no where near stock. I also spied a pair of ET streets as well. Whelp, after a smoke show that would've made cheech and chong proud, the saleen lines up against some sort of Mopar (not sure what it was, it was dark and it was in the other lane across from the stang) it was a fast car, but nowhere near the same league as the stang. Especially considering the Mopar was on street tires.
They line up, and the flag man drops his arms. The Saleen absolutely DEMOLISHES the Mopar out of the hole. According to you guys, the race is over right? WRONG, Captain America not only misses his 1-2 shift, he blew his 2-3 as well! the Mopar makes up the difference and wins!
Looks like someone forgot that shifting technique is everybit as important as launch technique. How about this, two of the exact same cars pull the exact same 60ft time, but one powershifts while the other grannyshifts. Who's going to win? I thought drag racing was all about launching?
Guess again.
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1998 GSR(sold)
14.059 @ 99.37
2000 LS1 Z28
-dynoed(stock) 296.3hp & 314.3ft/lbs to the wheels
www.geocities.com/motorcity/lane/4603
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Just adding my two cents.
I haven't dragged yet, but will try it this summer. I love autocrossing and imagine that dragging will not replace autocrossing as my motorsport of choice.
A note about street racing: Go ahead and race, but if other civilians pop into the scene, be the bigger man and give up the race. Look what happened the other day with those NBA players in their Porsches. I'm glad the drag racer is the dead one and the two innocent civilians only ended up in serious condition at the hospital. If it were the other way around, he'd be facing (and deserving) some serious time in prison.
Later,
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JRSC...
p.s. JRSC 6PSI basic kit starting/running great in 0 degree farenheit weather.
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I apologize in advance the long and and only somehat related subject matter, but as long as we're venting.
Street racing is for fools with no respect for their own safety or that of other's. The following story could be you. Either as the racer or an innocent victim. How would your family feel if you were the racer? How would you feel if someone in your family was the victim? How could you explain this to a small child who will never see their father again? Something to think about before your next street race.
CHARLOTTE - Charlotte Hornets guard Bobby Phills, a team leader and community benefactor, was killed Wednesday in a traffic accident while speeding in his Porsche from a practice at the team's arena,
police said. Witnesses said teammate David Wesley also may have been driving too fast in another car, police said. Wesley's vehicle wasn't involved in the accident.
Phills, 30, was traveling at ""a very high rate of speed'' after a team shootaround at the Charlotte Coliseum before Wednesday night's scheduled game with Chicago when he collided with a car headed toward the coliseum, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police spokesman Keith Bridges said. A minivan rearended the other car. Phills was killed
instantly, and two people in the other vehicles were hospitalized.
Capt. L.E. Blydenburgh, the police crash investigator, said Phills lost control of his Porsche on a hilly curve where the posted speed was 45 mph. ""The skid marks indicate he was not going in a straight
line,'' he said.
Bridges said Phills' 1997 convertible, with the vanity plate ""SLAMN,''left skid marks several hundred feet long and came to rest in one of the opposite lanes. Firefighters had to cut his body from the wreckage.
Listed in stable condition at Presbyterian Hospital were Robert Woolard Jr., 31, of Cornelius, the driver of the other car; and Yao Agbegbon, 33, of Charlotte, who was driving a minivan taxi, Bridges said.
Wesley, the Hornets' starting point guard, was listed on the accident report and questioned at the scene in a white Porsche. Bridges said it appeared from witness accounts that he was driving fast, too.
""We had some witness statements that his car may have been going at a high rate of speed also,'' Bridges said. He said it will be at least several days before investigators reconstruct what happened.
""This is the ultimate tragedy, and our immediate thoughts and prayers are with his wife, Kendall, children and family,'' Hornets owner George Shinn said in a statement. ""Not only was Bobby a tremendous person, but a great husband, father and role model that everyone respected and admired. He was someone that you would want your children to be like.''
Phills and his wife have two children - Bobby Ray III, 3, and Kerstie, 1.
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"A reasonable man adapts himself to the world around him. An unreasonable man expects the world to adapt to him. Therefore, all progress is achieved by unreasonable men"
[This message has been edited by 4doorGSR (edited January 14, 2000).]
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Alex, I saw your results on the www.houscca.com website. Nice Going. If I remember correctly, the "trophy" is a small addition to the dash plaque you get at each event. It is a small square that says the place you finished in. That's what I got a couple of times in the past when I was in GS and CSP. See you Sunday. I'll have some friends there as well. A C5 vette and Z3 as well as some pedestrian cheerleeders, hopefully.
Boy, some of you guys stay up late....
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I'm sorry, Kevin, and whcih are you??? ou didn't do so hot at the strip (from your own posts) and then you went out and bought a Camaro. Is that so you could get down the 1320 faster? Sounds like it to me. Not cause you wanted a "better" car, you just wanted to go down the strip. As for autox classes, they are running Street Touring, and Street Mod at Nationals and on the Tour Events. It will be optional in the regions for the first couple of years until SCCA mandates it everywhere. Now I am not sure how competetive the class should be, but I think it will be a great class for those of us with engine swaps or forced induction. I have been to the strip, and I wasn't bad, I just didn't really enjoy it. The biggest deal is in the launch, and like lundgren said, barring any problems, after you are out of the hole your grandmother could drive it. Throttle to the ground, shift at the top. I have alot of respect for the pros, reflexs like coiled springs, and nerves of steel. I think it is an okay thing on occasion.
And as for the bith of racing, I am not going to get into the arguing of semantics, as far as organized racing goes, the 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile drag events are much younger than other forms of racing.
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I'm not saying drag racing is better than autocross, people have their preferences. Both are fun too. I have mine but that's not the point.
And I agree, racing on the street can be dangerous. I choose my street races VERY carefully.
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lundgren, I know Im jumping in late, but I have my two cents.(Not Negative). I live in south florida where there are alot of import cars. However, there is alot of money down here. I have attended two autoX in the last year and a half. For the people out there who are ragging out autoX, Being a Drag fan, autoX is pretty killer and I was suprised! However, Lundgren when I went to them, all the people owned a BMW, Porche, Ferrari, Viper, or an Audi quattro! Furthermore, the people were not my peers. The crowd was late, late 20s to 60s. And since they were older and more wealthy, I did not fit in, they were stuck on themselves. However, at the dragstrip, there are plety of peers willing to help you out in any why possible. Given one any info he/she needs. So I believe this is why more FWD imports like the dragstripe so much. Also, one can go to the drag stripe and race for as little as $10 on a test and tune night. AutoX is $150 and up. Also, the youngens want to beat the other youngen at the light so they can be "cool"! And feel good KILLEN the Mustang that is beefier! You cant get the Mustangs to go somewhere were there a turns and race you there. Plus in Florida, all the roads are STRAIT as a board. (Be careful you can fall asleep!) Like I said Im not taken either side, just showing you my prospective!!!
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You are going to some seriously screwed up AutoX's. Auto cross here costs $15-25 per event. And that, no matter how many people show up, gets you 4-5 runs. Sure, some nights at the strip you can make 9+ runs, but I have shown up, paid my $10, and then gotten two runs in cause the lines were huge and they let the pro guys run, and the bikes run. I think lundgren and my frustration comes from people who are dissapointed or pissed off about their 1/4 mile times when that is not the end all/be all of performance measurement.
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I am making $150-200 a month, just for surfing the net!!!
Find out how you can do the same at VTeCno's Get Paid to Surf Site!
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vtecno, I sorry, I was talking about driving schools that I attended at Sebring racecourse. They are a two day event with 2 45min track sesions and 3 classroom classes a day. I never heard of just a $10-$25 one night event down hear! But I do know they exist up north and out west.
Mistake Im Sorry
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Am I going?? http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif What kind of a question is that?? I have been anxiously awaiting this moment since the day you mentioned it http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif As a matter of fact I will have some cheerleaders there for me! My best friend will be going to check it out. I friend of mine that has a mildly moded gsr, 2 00'type r's will be there. I am just soooo excited. Guess what Tom.. that first autox i just found out I am getting a trophy, at the next event. The event master forgot them last time. What does the trophy look like?? That is a cool feeling, first autox and i get a prize.
Okay enough of that.. my take on this post. I have never taken my car to the strip. Not cuz I dont want to but I work late all week, the days that the track is open hear is wednesday and friday. I look forward to going since I do indeed love drag. I am a big fan of import racing. I live in houston and feel like a complete nut for not ever being exposed to racing prior to my teg purchase. I went to the last 3 nopi events here in texas. I have to admit though guys that watching a 15+ car is just not exciting. But watching 10 sec imports makes me wet http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif. Having said that I went to the Matco Nationals in november and I have never seen so much power in my life. Top Fuel dragsters are all that and a bag of chips. I am soooo hooked on racing. As for excitement, autox i think is a little funner cuz it last longer. But nothing beats the adrenaline rush of lining up next to someone and having an all out race. I LOVE street racing.. to bad it is soo illegal. I guess I just like being the underdog. I got the blower not becuz of autox all though it did turn out to be a +, but I didn't want to get beat by just the average import and i wanted to be able to compete w/ the v8's which I have soo much fun doing. But to cut this post a little shorter.. I am glad I can do both and be somewhat competative. "Just do whatever flips your skirt!" http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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6 psi JRSC'd 98 Super Sonic Blue GSR w/ ground control, agx's, and power slots
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Yes I know. I was waiting to post my arogant opinion about the issue when I thought the board was getting slow.
It's a good thing I didn't select the box to send me emails when somebody replies!
I need a good race.
Love and peace!
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Lundgren
Lundgren's Integra Site
My AllAdvantage Page
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http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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98 Supersonic Blue Pearl GS-R
Supercharged with 225 H.P. and 168 Torque to the wheels
"The original smack talker of the JRSC" tkm
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Oh where shall I begin Geek?
I didn't do so hot at the strip you say? How about 14.071 at 99.59mph on 17 inch wheels and street tires? Or how about a best 60ft of 2.1xx on street tires?
I'd like to see you do better...
Oh that's right, I remember back last March when you were convinced that your 6psi teg was pulling a 13.4 on street tires because your g-tech said so (I'd like you see you tell everyone that now, you'd get laughed at). Remember that guy? Of course then we come to find out from your darksol buddy that you had in fact been to the strip, and apparently you had trouble getting into the 14's. Geeee, I wonder why you don't like drag racing now?
I suggest you get your facts straight before you try to flame me son. Feel free to remove your foot from your mouth at any time you like.
Ah, street touring.....
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A new concept started in 1997. This class allows sedans (four seaters) with a maximum displacement of 3.1L, normally aspirated. This class is for the popular street cruisers with lowered suspension, air filter systems, and wider wheels.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yea, I'm sure you could be very competitive in that class. You just need to remove that supercharger first. While your at it, you might as well take out that limited slip differential too. Those aren't allowed either.
SCCA doesn't take kindly to aftermarket power adders.
They never have, they never will.
Face the facts, you will be forever stuck in a class that you will be hopelessly outgunned in.
Keep chewing on that foot.
Just for the record, the reason I switched cars was because of the facts that I have displayed here. I accepted the fact that my teg would be useless for autox. I realized that it was stupid to pour money into a car that would NEVER be competitive. Luckily, I got out before I got too deep, and i was able to recover most of the money. If I could do it all over again, I would've taken that money I blew on the SC and gone to a driving school. The teg would've been an excellent car for e-stock or sp. With instruction, I bet i would have torn up the local events. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20 right?
To be honest, drag racing in Vegas is terrible due to the 2200ft elevation. Our 1/4 mile times are on average, 1/2 second slower than a track at sea level. ie: Pomona. We have to use correction factors in order to obtain our real times. This was the reason I would go down to Pomona to race on occasion. This doesn't take away from the fact that it is still fun as hell. But being able to compete for a points championship in autox is what I really want to do.
Feel free to continue passing judgment on me. Why it is that you (geek) and a few others (you know who you are) feel it is your duty to test my resolve in this matter, i haven't the slightest idea. But with each successive personal attack, you do nothing but futher display your own ignorance.
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1998 GSR(sold)
14.059 @ 99.37
2000 LS1 Z28
-dynoed(stock) 296.3hp & 314.3ft/lbs to the wheels
www.geocities.com/motorcity/lane/4603
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Kevin: You're forgetting about the new "Street Modified" class, formerly "STU". You could shove a turbo'd Prelude VTEC with its' fancy diff. into an old CRX, slap on 9" slicks, gut the interior and be completely legal in this class.
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JRSC, yada yada...
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Vteckno geek, i have to say, as a moderator u need some work. i mean ur flaming guys on u r board. take it easy, i mean i've seen kevin since i first came on this board, he should be the same guy.
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Sure the integra is not competative in EMOD but it is in STU or as it's known now as STM. This is a new class to address the large population of full streetable cars, that are highly modified.
I hope you find the Camaro more competative, faster, more reliable, more customizable... or whatever. Just remember that whatever we do, we all drive in a classes. It doesn't matter, there is always something better, faster, more reliable, more customizable.. or whatever.
Seriously no sarcasm here. Good luck.
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Holden: Actually I think a car in ST, STU or STM as it is now called, must have 4 seats. A CRX is best in CSP. With a blown prelude transplant it would be in what... DMOD?
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E-Mod due to engine displacement multiplied by the conversion factor. I should know. I incorrectly spent 3/4 of 1999 in the Houston region D-mod class and was going to receive their 1st place trophy (OK, in a field of mostly one!). I first learned that I was supposed to be in Emod on this board, checked the rulebook and called the solo committee and informed them of my error http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif. Oh well.
It was also my understanding that the ST classes were for 4 seat and up cars. anyoue sure about this. If so Gsrev, you should be second and not third in that last autocross! We'll see what happens this weekend... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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Tom
1996 Cypress Green Pearl Acura Integra 4 DR
JRSC with JR fuel pump upgrade
J&S Safeguard
Tokico Illumina Shocks & Eibach Pro-kit Springs
Dunlop D60/A2 JLBs (205 50 15) on stock 15 x 6 wheels (street)
Kumho V700 Victoracers (205 50 15) on 15x7 rims (autocross)
Century infant and booster child seats in back!
[This message has been edited by GSRDPM (edited January 15, 2000).]
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Sorry. My mistake.
I forgot about the four seat requirment. Make that a blown prelude engine in a 90 Civic!
From the way the variable displacement rules are written, pushrod engines can be up to 6 liters. I hope there are some pony cars around here that join SM because sub-frame connectors are legal. It will be interesting to be in the same class!
Anyone know what engine code 14 means? (From my other thread, sorry).
Greg Holden
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Kevin,
Darksol and I had some differing stories. That time at the strip we ran he had a best of 14.0, down from his best of a 13.7, and I had a best of 14.2 (on street tires). The time at the strip with lundgren, we both got into the 14's, and to give you an idea, a guy who runs a modified 95 RX-7 iwith a best of 13.1 only ran a 14.6 that night due to heat and humidity. As for the AutoX, I won E-Mod for Kansas City. I showed up every race, ran, and didn't break anything (which kept two of the Trailer Queens out of Two Races each). No, it probably isn't competetive on a national level, but it is competetive in regional. And it's fun. As for Street Mod, I believe its been said. Also, the car has to be street legal, full interior, and if someone wants to shove a Prelude motor in the front of a civic, more power to them, the weight distribution will be all off and I will still have a run at them. I am not trying to flame Kevin, but some of his comments need to be replied to, especially for a Camoron http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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I am making $150-200 a month, just for surfing the net!!!
Find out how you can do the same at VTeCno's Get Paid to Surf Site!
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vtecno, I do understand and agree with what you and lundgren believe!! There are too many factors in drag racing to jug the cars output. Ex: enough VHP on the trap, temp., bar press., altitude,etc... I know someone is going to rip me up about those facters so Im waiting!!
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Lundgren....look at what you started!!! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Hehehe....I think this is the fastest growing post this year. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Hold your horses everyone. This is gonna be good. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw this.
So you WON E-mod in Kansas eh? Well considering the amount of trash you have been talking I decided to look up your race results on your regional web page. Considering you are such a badass autocrosser, I wanted to see how fast badass is....
According to your chapter, you got THIRD. And the ONLY reason you got third was because you showed up to more races than everyone else. Every race you entered, you got LAST place, except for one time you beat a delsol. HORRAY! First place ended the season with 630 points, you ended with 240. Woah, that was close! I think that dude in the lotus (who DID win the points championship) was worried for a second... NOT!
Not only did you get whipped by EVERY car you competed against in E-mod (except lundgren of course and that del sol), but you consistently got your ass handed to you by almost every car in every other class too! About the only thing you did consistently was clock some of the slowest times of each meet.
Your results from August 29th as follows:
-Last place in class (out of three)
-78th overall (out of 82, lundgren got 76th)
You competed in several races this season and you were ALWAYS one of the slowest cars there.
I thought you told me that you have smoked all the f-bodies at your meets? According to your results for the year, I don't think you beat A SINGLE ONE. Hell even the old third-gen V6's were kicking your ass. Let alone the 4th gen LS1 V8's like mine. The Z28's were running times that were WAYYY out of your league. You weren't even close to their times, and these car were competing in stock and street prep! Damn even the guys in the novice classes were running quicker times than you.
Ya know, normally I don't get this nasty. Afterall, autox is very hard. I can appreciate someone who is just starting out. But you two (geek and lundgren) take the cake. You guys go out and autocross, get smoked by everything short of a 1971 Triumph, then come over here and gloat about how you smoke all these "Crapmaros" and how your cars are so superior in autoX. Then continue to condescend to everyone who disagrees, when in fact you haven't even come CLOSE to accomplishing a mere FRACTION of the things you tell everyone.
I'm sorry, but that is truly pathetic.
If anyone else wants to see geek and lundgren's dominating performances in autoX check these out:
http://www.kcrscca.org/solo/results99/s2pnts99.htm
http://www.kcrscca.org/solo/results99/s2rslt99.htm
http://members.tripod.com/ksregion/s829cls.htm
They should be easy to find, afterall who else would run and integra in E-mod?
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1998 GSR(sold)
14.059 @ 99.37
2000 LS1 Z28
-dynoed(stock) 296.3hp & 314.3ft/lbs to the wheels
www.geocities.com/motorcity/lane/4603
[This message has been edited by Kevin (edited January 15, 2000).]
