Live show
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=52581
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From the recording description:
Willis commented to a close friend that he didnt enjoy the gig as much with Virgil as he did with Kirk because he felt that Kirk grooves alot harder.
I'm just going to open this can of worms and run away I think. *sinister laugh* [img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>
I enjoyed it very much.
I think they played with frightening aggression.
In a good way...
Too bad Willis didn't like it.
Virgils comping is phenomenal.
He nails all the interacting "bass+guitar vs. keyboard hits".
PS: Whats with the links??
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Jeppe Morgenthaler ]</font>
You're the man Randy. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
I think Virgil has put some major time into his groove and proof shows on the Soul Sirkus cd.
I would have to agree with Steve's post about Willis and Virgil. I've seen Tribal Tech with Hillary Jones and Kirk. They were amazing. Now I've never "seen" Virgil with TT but hearing the recordings, I can hear it. Not sure if the link above is the same tunes I have but the ones I have are Actual Proof , the Big Wave and Got to B. Virgil plays amazing stuff on these tracks. Don't get me wrong... I've listened to them hundreds of times and I'm still completely blown away.
On a side note: I saw a Virgil clinic at Guitar Center here in CT a few years back. I was a little disappointed. He kept trying to twirl and flip his sticks and it wasn't happening at all!!! Yet he kept trying and kept missing. His drumming was great but I could have done w/o the BS!! That's my .02
I must say i agree w this also. While i think [know] this V-man is undisputedly one of the rhythmic & technical masters of our or any time [see if you can guess who's the "other V" man], I have to say I prefr Kirk's, or secondly, Heredia's groove w TT.
When i listen to PX's Live-Oz or MoonBs, or Virg's OTV/SYI [all [img]eek.gif[/img] ], it is some of the most monstrous OTT power fusion drumg ever, also w moments of groove. But w TT, the topic seems to fall into that strange & wonderous land that is vaguely defined as "groove." It doesn't groove nearly as "hard" as Kirk.
Now I realize Virg is not their regular drumr as is Kirk, but rather signed on for an Aussie TT tour, so I cut him slack for that, as he prob had to chart them out or receive charts & learn their material in a shorter amout of time [maybe even guide charts first couple of gigs?]...
Sometimes he does seem to feel too machine like, or maybe i should say, the groove may "feel" suspect [or lack thereof], because his timing is so good, kind of like the Weck toggle we get into here every N&T [of course DW is DW, & VD is, well, VD]. To coin a chess-game playing phrase, V's thing is the "crush your mind" [& limbs] OTT high-tech fusio-rock/metal, so his groove reflects...i think KC has more "jazzy" or groovier feel & interp in his playg...[oh boy, here we go again...] [img]wink.gif[/img] I too think KC is more "intuitively suited" overall for the TT band vibe.
But like was said, that's not saying that Virg isn't still an undisputed ultimate "Fuso-stein Monsta'"...
Just listen to PX-Oz or MoonB, & Virg's OTV/SYI or Stretch & you'll see what i mean, via the proverbial "3-Stooges multi-bee-hatch slap"..I consider him one of the innovators we spoke of in another thread...he's a fusion & power rock/metal innovator for sure. Theoretically he may not be doing anything "new," as polyRs & technq have been played & mastered by many b4, but he's DEF put his own indy stamp on the ideas & raised the bar to a whole new level. And in Dbl-bass rock fusion alone...then there's the hands...& the concepts...
I love the technozoids out there, but it's the affair w the drum machine that i have a love AWA disdain with ATST.
DMs [& sometimes ProTools [img]wink.gif[/img] ] have improved most everyone's sense of time overall; as a result most of us have had to "step up to the plate" [I've been working w the click both in practice AWA live on stage since the late 80s] but it seems as if some players work with them so much/all the time, by playing "spot-on" w the click, that their groove is sometimes compromised & left a little "cold"...therein lies the duality & carnage, both good AWA bad, that is the Advent of the Dreaded DM...
I think it's of the utmost importance to be able to play w a DM anymore, but for the last many yrs i've striven/strived to play more "loosely" within/against the click, experimenting with widening the pocket by "pulling back" a hair aginst the click in phrasings [or whatever the applic]. There is a time to play spot-on, if & when the music or genre dictates...
I wonder if this is the same show from which those 3 mp3s [i also have] of Actual Proof, Big Wave, & Got to B are taken...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 02:34 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
What creates groove is the placement of the snare and kick. To consistantly place the kick on the beat and the snare back on the beat.
I myself do not believe one can work on his groove. One can work on his time, but not his groove. Your groove is natural and it's the way you hear music. Virgils groove will always be his. His accuracy may change, but not his actual feel. It's in your soul in your being.
I remember several players from Dennis Chambers to Steve Gadd saying this "Either you groove or you don't, all the practice in the world will not change your groove."
It's funny, Gadd's time became much more consistant over the years. He rushed less and less as the years passed. Yet, his groove is identical to when he was 18.
Changing your groove is like trying to change eye color. It's your musical DNA. You're stuck with it.
I don't think that's true.... I think groove is just like anything else, if you work at it, you can make it better.
I agree with Groove and Hay.
You CAN make your groove better, more consistant, tighter.
I think what groove is talking about is the feel.
You can't change your feel. If you play with an edge, no matter how hard you try not to, that edge will come out. Stewart Copeland is a prime example. If you play lazy, well you can work at nailing the click, but that lazy element will always be there.
I also believe that drummers who aren't happy with their feel will be the first ones to deny this. Start being happy with your own feel. Work on the consistancy, but know, your feel will not change.
Well, I for one will believe Gadd and Chambers over what any of you think. HAHAHA! I heard Chambers say that at a clinic at Sam Ash on Long Island.
You can sculpt and shape your groove, but everyone has their own.
I think you should embrace the factors that make your groove different. You can't change those no matter how hard you try. It's your personality.
If you think Virgil is suddenly going to bust out playing like Jeff Porcaro, then you're in fantasy land. He's incapable.
The Holmes statement is a prime example if what I have been saying all along. The drummers role in music is to create and underlying current, making the music move and breathe a certain way. Fills take a backseat to that. Fills and technique mean nothing without that. So imagine what playing different time signatures in different limbs mean. NOTHING. Not if you can't lay down that deep feeling wonderful groove.
Producers and writers and musicians only care about the feel. That's our job as drummers.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font>
I agree w hanayalator.
While i do think that certain people may be "predisposed" to a certain way of playing, ie, their own way of hearing or feeling the groove, or grooving, period; I think it's a stretch to say it can't ever be changed...it's not like skin color...oh wait, then again, there's Jacko...so my point is further proven... [img]wink.gif[/img]
Altho again, some folks, esp these days, just don't hear it any other way apart from spot on the click, which is a product of "the times" - the modern "technological advancements" within music practice & recording & the DM...
AFA "edge," Vinnie also always had this in his playing for many, many yrs, & is his natural disposition...all the studio & click work, AWA "time" itself [img]wink.gif[/img] , seemed to have tamed him over the yrs in this area. But when he's going for it, he can still push the groove to the "edge" of rushing. Better than obviously dragging, i guess! I never liked the lazy feel anyway, except for when certain tunes def call for this feel, naturally. That's but 1 of the many things that drew me to VC's playing - his b*lls & very urgent feel when blazing & vamping in improv...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]Quote:
I also believe that drummers who aren't happy with their feel will be the first ones to deny this
Wow, that is mightily presumptuous of ya...
I know...by ?ing this, i "therefore naturally" must be 1 of those... [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 02:55 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Show me one drummer who's actual feel has changed. Not his time or consistancy, but his feel. His overall groove in the music.
You can't. I'm just using this as an example. Virgil's time will always be his. Lang's time will always be his. Vinnie's feel has been EXACTLY the same since Zappa.
I would be curious to hear another drummer playing with Tribal Tech. I can't really say that I enjoy Kirk's playing/sound/touch/approach, even though he is a monster on the drums.
Vinnie plays more laid back now that he uses to do.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve Smith's feel and groove has changed a LOT since the eighties. There's your perfect example.Quote:
Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
Show me one drummer who's actual feel has changed. Not his time or consistancy, but his feel. His overall groove in the music.
Phil Rudd's never changed. I think he's got bags of groove. Marotta's never changed. Still the same beat up sofa it always was.
I think that you can change your groove with a lot of metronome practice, however. The personality comes in the beat, not necessarily in the groove. We all learn how not to rush or drag, I had it beaten into me by my first snare teacher.
I hear Virg's BD placement and sometimes it feels wierd. Sort of like mine after some Starbucks coffee. [img]wink.gif[/img]
That's my opinion and I may be wrong.
Yeah, no offense flar & gs, but that is your O, of which i wholeheartedly disagree, altho there are many cases that may show your point, but likewise there are those that are the exception, so I can't make that kind of stern blanket call.
The only prime example i will say at the moment is, that I've changed my own pers feel over the yrs. By listening to a lot of music, & recordg myself, & saying to myself, "what rushes here, & what drags there," & by someone being intelligent & intuitive about it, over time, one CAN change their feel, if they have the insight & foresight to do so. But likewise, if one doesn't well, then they simply don't. I think therein lies the key.
But again, that's also not saying [& i don't disagree w the fact] that there aren't certain innate qualities that often categorize a person's feel...
Ah, the other-wordly Netherworld of Groove... /;-)
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 03:06 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
MoMKs - AFA the stick tricks, methinks you may've caught him on a "bad day." [img]wink.gif[/img]
As you said, perhaps too much star$$'s, or overworked & not enough sleep, <s>night out w a lady/s, or too much ephedrine or amphetamines</s>...I JEST. [img]wink.gif[/img]
DSOP..Steve's groove has not changed an inch since Berklee, nevermind Journey. He's as stiff as he ever was. What are you listening to?
And by groove and feel(to me they are one) I mean personality in the beat. You can't differenciate to that extent and act like groove playing is some kind of science. Your groove is your mojo is your personality. It's who you are as a person. Why do think Virgil's is so edgy. He probably lives his life like that.
Time and groove are different. You can have floaty time and real great groove. You can have perfect time and a horrible groove. Or you can have a little of both. In either case, you're born with your feel.
You can't change your DNA make up and who you are. You can't change your groove. You can add to it, and make it more solid, maybe change your touch. But not your feel. Go give it a try you'll see what I mean. Be sure you record yourself.
If people were able to change their grooves they would easily be able to copy someone else. This has never been done. I have heard drummers try and sound like Vinnie, Gadd, and Weckl, they're always unsuccesful. There's only one of each of those men. It is their grooves that make them who they are. There's no denying it. You can't change your groove. Arguing will not do it either. A person is who they are, and we are all individuals. Your groove will be with you until you are in your grave. Same groove you had when you were 8.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Groovesmitty ]</font>
I disagree. Listen to Steve Smith on the first Vital Information and then the latest release. It could be two different drummers.
And I think that drummers ARE capable of sounding EXACTLY like another drummer if they want it bad enough. A drummer's groove and feel are also created by their EQUIPMENT, STICKS, RECORDING TECHNIQUE, etc....so to really duplicate or mimic another player, you would need to copy everything about them.
But then again, why bother? Arguments about groove and feel have been going on forever and will continue to do so.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 04:07 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>
Sounds like another case of semantics. What is groove. If it IS in fact the personality of your beat. Then Groove is 100% right.
You can't change your genetic make up, you are who you are. Every player who has changed over the years still has that thing in their groove that makes them identifiable. That never goes away. Any drummer is proof of that.
Agreed.
If you think your groove is the consistancy of your beat. Well then of course. That can be improved on.
Groove's explanation makes sense not only spiritually, but physiologically. Think about it. It's you, it's who you are. How do you change that? I don't believe you can. It's what makes us who we are behind the kit. Our groove. A groove can't get deeper, only more accurate and consistant. The depth of the groove is how it makes you feel inside not how it matches up on the pro-tools grid. In 30 years Virgils groove will feel exactly the same.
You can improve on your body by exercising but you can't make red hair grow out of your head if you have brown hair.
You can be a nicer person and change your personality but you can't change your IQ or intellect level.
Makes sense to me. Admit it, sounds correct.
Sorry, that is the same old Steve Smith to my ears. Different drums different approach, same groove. Listen harder.
When a drummer like Steve Hass plays with Danilo Perez and then plays with Cher, he still posses the same groove. One recognizable groove. When Brian Blade toured with Seal, he still had the groove as he did with Joshua. Don't mistake style, interpretation, or approach, with someone's internal groove. That never changes.
Also your comment about sticks and gear. Completely not what I'm talking about. You're not understanding. Those things DO NOT change a persons groove. Groove and sound are not the same.
You have to look and listen deeper than that. If you put Gadd on Elvins drumset, he'll still groove like Gadd. Your statement makes sense if you're talking approach. But not feel and groove. That's simply not right. You can't change who you are by changing your clothes. And NO ONE has ever succeeded in copying another drummers feel and groove. It can't be done. You can always tell the difference.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Groovesmitty ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know that anyone has actually TRIED to do this, nor would I understand WHY anyone would, but I still think that it is entirely possible.Quote:
Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
NO ONE has ever succeeded in copying another drummers feel and groove. It can't be done. You can always tell the difference.
And I still maintain that many a drummers' groove has changed over time. The only scientific way to acertain this would involve a very difficult set of comparisons with willing ang able participants involved over a period of time. Until such a test is conducted, we're just stating opinions on here. I don't need you to tell me to 'listen harder' or to imply that I am not listening as well as you.
Benrad and groove. You guys nailed it. It may be semantics because I don't feel this is hard to grasp at all. I have those VI albums. His sound changed, his cymbal sound especially. His drums are different sizes(he added an 8" and the depths are different). His approach has changed because of his historical studies. But when I listen to the feel and groove. It's the same old Steve Smith. 2 different drummers? huh? I don't hear that at all.
I dig the change of clothes analogy. Tru dat! Let's put this to rest, if you can't hear it, ok. If you're stubborn enough to deny that all our favs have had the same feel and groove since their early years, well then. What can be said? Continue in fantasy land.
Groove is groove and I love mine.
DSOP, HAHAHAHA! That test you mentioned does exist. Pick up some recordings. It's all there. Gadd with Chick in the 70s, Gadd with Edie Brickell in 04. Rick Marotta with Steely Dan Rick with Vinnie on the Gadd tribute. I can make a list 100pages long. Because all these guys feel the same. And they all have attained stronger and more mature time feels over the years. But they all groove exactly the same for 20 or more years. Tell me you can't hear that..I know you can. It seems so logical to me that I can't even begin to dig why another drummer would argue. The facts are everywhere.
Bottom line in relevance to this thread, Virgils groove will remain the same. And in 20 years you'll say, yes Rob you were right. :-)
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ July 28, 2005 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font>
DSOP - I saw Hillary Jones with TT @ Johnny D's in Boston. Absolutley amazing.. she brought more of that "vibe" that people mentioned in the thread. We thought she was the drum tech because we were expecting to see Kirk. When she sat and started the first tune we felt like complete A**HOLES!! We ALL got schooled.. This was 93-94 era so we had no idea who she was.
I love when people talk about words like groove and feel. I have no idea how to explain either so I don't say anything at all. everything written makes sense to me.. both sides.. If I see peoples heads moving in the crowd or they're dancing... Mission accomplished!!!!!
I heard the same thing about the twirling and how he normally nials that stuff. Hey, everyone has bad days.. "Bad" is relative when talking about players of this caliber. VD is still the man in my eyes.. along with the "other V" mentioned!
MOMK...you nailed it. If the audience is grooving, THERE YA GO.
The physiology point is total BS because one is NOT the same in this way as they were at age 8.
So THAT my fiends, is another case of obviously total BS spin. [img]wink.gif[/img]
If you can't understand this, then one must've failed grade school science [anat, biol].
HA! [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I like that quote that another member here has, the 1 about trying to define groove is like trying to draw a sneeze...funny. Even tho groove prob can still be explained somewaht...but point made.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 08:25 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Virgil may just need more seat time with the band before they 'groove' better together. I must admit that I am not familiar with Virgil's playing at all, so I can't comment directly, but I have heard that he has a lot of chops. Kirk may groove better for Gary, but I for one don't enjoy Kirk's supposed groove. I think it has more to do with his sound though,...I'm not sure.
As far as I know the personality of body movements, how you move, never changes. I personally hit the drums the same way I did when I was kid, I just have more power and control. As does Gadd as does Vinnie. Although Vinnies tech changed, the personality behind his movements are identical to the days when he played that big double bass kit. Not sure who's right here. I'm not doctor, I wouldn't jump to say BS though.
All those guys you guys are talking about, you are talking about ONCE THEY BECAME ADULT or "mature." Late teens, or early 20s, most of them, to be exact. It IS true, players have things that are indicant of their "groove" or feel; Weckl does have things in his playng that are "there" in that clip at 13 w the BB, but he is def a diff player now than he was then. & sounds VERY diff.
It's called "developmemnt"...until you are largely an "adult." All those guys that were spoke of were still mostly guaged from their recordgs as adults, once all the formative yrs of change [includg 'groove'] took place.
Nope. I still can't make that kind of generalization. & I won't admit it. Hard heads are of many circles... [img]wink.gif[/img]
However, if one was to say the "spirituality of 'personality'" WITHIN groove, then I might agree in certain situations & examples, & perhaps all, to a degree. There is truth in this by & large...but I won't say someone can't change their groove. To me, that is just a romantic notion that the free world is often cursed with, even great players, turning some romantic or "new-age spiritualistic" whimsy into seemed "fact." Too sweeping a generalization. But i do get what is attempted to be said about a person's personality in playing, if that's what is meant. But this still forms over the early years. It's called natural evolution.
Someone can change their spiritual dispositon. I've seen it.
SEMANTICS indeed, as is uaually the case when discussing these sorts of ideologies.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 05:06 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
I hate to say something is impossible, but I have to admit I can't think of anyone who has managed to change their groove.
I happen to agree wholeheartedly with Derek, GrooveSmitty and the other's also in regards to that fact that Groove is ALOT more than your command of time and and how you hit the drums soft or hard etc. It is the uniqueness of the person as much as what is physically being executed that comes across. A person may change the way he sit's , holds his sticks, his motion when moving around the kit, how hard he hit's but they still have that unique sound and feel to their playing. It is not one or the other but both IMO. You can change the outcome of the physical but what is on the inside is much harder to affect.
I do not expect or want Virg to sound like Kirk C. If I wanted that I would listen to the latter and forget about Virg. I kind of have a feeling that the band probably knew what they were getting when they hired Virg it was not a shock. If they wanted someone else they would of went that route. In any case it takes more than a few gigs to begin to sound like another artist.
I also love the agression and spontaneity that Virgil plays with that is part of his greatness not just the way he brings the beat across. There is alot more to being great than having time and feel that certain people like.
Truth fully, i was trying to set some teeth on edge in my earlier post [as they try to do others [img]tongue.gif[/img] ]
No, seriously; the disagreements i think are largely in the way we are wording our ideologies, as was said. Maybe I should've worded it differently...
It would seem there are certain qualities about a person's groove that are indicative of their own selves, & that will never change, point taken. It's a large part of what makes "you, you." That's common sense kid stuff.
But i think it is within the realm of possibilty to change one's appraoch to groove. Now, just because a lot of peeps HAVEN'T may be another story entirely [img]wink.gif[/img] ...it would seem after all that it IS indeed hard to change our personal ideas & opinions...[there has to be an EXTREME motivation - & aft all those yrs of INITIAL motivation, eh?] [img]wink.gif[/img]
I think all of you guys are making valid points; it may just be in the wording or interpreting of these statements of ideal. [AKA rhetoric / semantics...;-p]
It sounds to me like KC is more fr the "jazzier," more "loose" side of fusion [w a splash of funk], AOT VD, who is the extreme prog & rock side of fusion [& the click]...either way, BOTH men have THEIR OWN THING GOING ON...
I perfer Virg in PX & OTV/SYI...I pref KC in TT. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Here that laughter in the distance?....That's the chortling sound of one Holmes' sadistic snickering after starting w the statement & then stepping back to watch the melee... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
"Fighters, come out of your corners swingin'!"...[KC would "win"...cuz he "swings harder" than VD...that's non-negotiable]... /;-p
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 28, 2005 08:24 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, and Soul Sirkus LIVE he took it up a couple more notches from that.Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Walker:
I think Virgil has put some major time into his groove and proof shows on the Soul Sirkus cd.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What about a drummer during his ...first year of playing the drums?Quote:
Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
What creates groove is the placement of the snare and kick. To consistantly place the kick on the beat and the snare back on the beat.
I myself do not believe one can work on his groove. One can work on his time, but not his groove. Your groove is natural and it's the way you hear music. Virgils groove will always be his. His accuracy may change, but not his actual feel. It's in your soul in your being.
I remember several players from Dennis Chambers to Steve Gadd saying this "Either you groove or you don't, all the practice in the world will not change your groove."
It's funny, Gadd's time became much more consistant over the years. He rushed less and less as the years passed. Yet, his groove is identical to when he was 18.
Changing your groove is like trying to change eye color. It's your musical DNA. You're stuck with it.
If groove is something you're born with, then where was my groove when I first started? This could quickly get philosophical or metaphysical..{grabs Nietschze book...}
conclusion: Groove is part of you that lies in the sub conscious, you must search for it by practicing and through self expression. Groove comes from deep within.
I'll add a bit more:
If groove is a somewhat undefineable part of ourselves, how we play, then we are only relate to what grooves to us as individuals, to an extent. Groove isn't a finite thing. It's individualistic, therefore different to each person, but at the same time there are elements that are universal, like snare on 2 and 4. I see this as a someone saying "No, my opinion is right" It's assinine.
I said this could get philosophical and it did.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With all due respect I disagree. I'll give you an example. No drummer I have ever heard can play Gadd's 50 Ways to Leave your Lover groove and make it feel the way he does. I've heard many people try including Weckl. It never feels like the way he plays it though. It's not equipment, sticks, technique or practice. It's simply his God given feel and he was born with it. It's part of the reason he is a legend.Quote:
And I think that drummers ARE capable of sounding EXACTLY like another drummer if they want it bad enough. A drummer's groove and feel are also created by their EQUIPMENT, STICKS, RECORDING TECHNIQUE, etc....so to really duplicate or mimic another player, you would need to copy everything about them.
Just my 2 cents.
[img]graemlins/bat.gif[/img]
I am thinking that if you catch a guy on a bad day, bad playing, THOSE days, you would see the true groove come through because coordination should have nothing to do with where you place the beat. I've had days where I just say screw it and play much simpler and focus on the beat.
Strip away the technique and you have the groove.