Getting to know your drum heros

Just a question for those who have met their drum heros. Was it a good experience or did it change your perception of what you liked about them before? A case in point is a former instructor of mine, Rick, used to really worship Tony Williams playing. One night at a TW gig after the show he went around into the alley to see if he could meet his drum hero. There he was standing in the alley after the gig having a cigar and talking to some people. My friend nervously waited until he could get a word in. When the time came he approached Tony and said "I really enjoy your playing and have always dug what you have recorded including the early Miles stuff." At that point Tony grabbed my friend and pushed him up against the wall. He then said "You don't know anything about my playing you white #$*^%@$*&". He got so worked up that his friends had to break it up to let my friend loose. At that point Rick just left and said screw that shit. I don't need to have anything more to do with Tony.
Now after hearing that I thought to myself that maybe it is not always a good idea to get to know your drum heros since they may not live up to your expectations. Playing wise there are so many great drummers to listen to that I enjoy. Some of them that I've met have been cool while others have been too weird to deal with.
Do any of you guys have a hero story to share?

I think we tend to put people like that on a higher level of expectation, and they can never be good enough a person, because the bar we set is so high.

So many great musicians are/were arseholes... It's a shame, but they're humans just as we are.

That Tony story is just scary, though. Jesus... what a jerk!

I got to see Tony Williams perform live once, but never had the opportunity to meet him. I've heard similar stories about Ron Carter. All I can surmise is that those guys went through a whole different time back in the sixties.

I have met most of my drumming 'idols', and I guess I've been lucky in that they've all been very gracious. The list includes Mark Craney, Graham Lear, Chad Wackerman, Terry Bozzio, Jeff Porcaro, Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips, Vito Rezza, Paul DeLong, Steve Smith, Louie Bellson, Carmine Appice, Leon "Ndugu" Chancler, Tommy Campbell, Ritchie Hayward, Chester Thompson and Dave Weckl.

I've actually become pretty friendly with some of these guys, and I swear to you that all of them are super nice.

The only drummers that I regret not seeing perform live are Keith Moon (r.i.p.), John Bonham (r.i.p.) and Stewart Copeland.

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 11, 2005 10:54 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 11, 2005 11:50 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 12:29 AM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cameron Mahoney:
[QB]I think we tend to put people like that on a higher level of expectation, and they can never be good enough a person, because the bar we set is so high.

So many great musicians are/were arseholes... It's a shame, but they're humans just as we are.

This is so very true ! The nicest of my idols i've met are 'Vinnie', 'Terry Bozzio', 'Billy Cobham' and 'Simon Phillips'. A couple of disappointments were meeting 'Bill Bruford' and 'Ritchie Hayward'. I was definately not out of line but i guess maybe they were having an off day or something. Neither one were mean but they just seemed a bit impatient and uninterested. That's life !

[img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 11, 2005 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Blue Tav ]</font>

"An individual's personality is absolutely reflected in his or her playing. It's a signature thing, like a thumbprint or timbre of somebody's voice."--Les Claypool MD 3/05 p130

The issue of personality and how someone plays is fascinating. At NAMM a few years ago, at the Vic Firth table was Weckl, Arnoff, & C Wackerman.

It was interesting how very different these guys were. Dave was like he is in his videos--sort of serious and straight forward. Kenny was loud and Mr Personality--talking to people who walked by while you waited next in line for a signature. Chad was mouse-like--gentle and quiet.


At first, thinking about Claypool's thought above, Tony is an aggressive player and his personality seems to reflect this. Yet, Bozzio is aggressive but gentle. Porcaro?s personality matches his drumming to me. Dave?s personality reflects in his drumming. Same with Chambers. Ahmir Thompson does as well. I?d love to write a book about this.

What about you guys? Does your drumming reflect your personality? Is it the opposite like Bozzio?s appears to be? If you love hi-hat like Billy Ward, does that reflect some part of your personality?

Interesting stuff.

Sadly I must admit that I haven't created that much of my own voice on the drum set. I think your "voice" is ultimately how your personality shows. I would imagine that this is something that only develops with years of experience. I mean there's certain trademarks I may have in my playing, but after playing a solo I don't think that annoying could deduce whether I am aggressive, shy or gentle for example. know what I mean?

Billy Cobham was doing a masterclass at the guildhall school of music with his band. Afterwards, I plucked up the courage to go up to him and say basically the same sort of things that drumaddicts former instructor said. All I got back was a kind of strange look and 'ah, ok' and that was it. Like he didn't care or maybe he was taken aback. Either way, I didn't feel very rewarded for going up to him and in fact I felt embarassed.
But my friend and I ended up packing away his drums for some reason, lol.

David Garibaldi at a drum event with a few other drummers on the bill. He came out front after he'd played to mingle and answer questions. I asked him a question about his snare drum and he gave me a one word answer with a very straight face and nothing more. I didn't feel comfortable pursuing a conversation with him. Then again, I'm very good at taking things the wrong way sometimes when I shouldn't.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 02:59 AM: Message edited by: Rudy_Ment ]</font>

I have been very fortunate to meet some of my drum heroes like Elvin Jones, Peter Erskine, and Steve Ferrone. All of these gentlemen were very gracious and kind.

The first time, when I got to meet Vinnie Colaiuta, was eventful. I will try to give you the short version of a very long story. While Vinnie was playing, he saw a fan filming him after one of his band mates pointed it out to him. During the set, he got upset and started yelling into the audience. After the set was finished, he started chasing the fan. He was very upset and lost his temper. He ended up saying some things that he probably shouldn't have. After seeing my horrified and disappointed face, he apologized for what happened. Since that time, I have meet Vinnie a few times. I like to believe that Mr. C. has changed for the better as time has gone by.

I'll focus on the good experiences:

Peter Erskine- met him at Rocco (when it was open in L.A.)- great guy, super-smart

Jason Bonham- we had a mutual female friend- great guy, loved his beer-- I know all about his supposed rep, but he's a sweet guy underneath it all. I think he's a slammin' rock drummer

Will Kennedy- met him after a Yellowjacket show because my buddy was friends with Haslip- when Will found out I was drummer, he let me sit on his set and try it (thought it was tricky because he's lefty), gave me his # for possible lessons, and found him a beautiful, warm human being

Matt Sorum- I had just heard him on the Burnin' For Buddy CD when I met him- told him I thought he was great- he just laughed- I said 'What's so funny?'- he said 'Dude, I was so nervous- I had to record after Weckl!' Real nice guy.

There's plenty of others, but I've met many celebrity types having lived in L.A. 16 years, and the fact is that some are jerks, and some just have bad days, and it gets amplified. If someone's a jerk, then I walk away and forget about it.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 05:40 AM: Message edited by: O Baterista ]</font>

I forgot about Will... he was a class-act also. When i talked to him he asked me if i knew of any good churches to go to while he was in town. Very religious, humble guy.

As far as personality coming out in your playing... that is why we all practice, right? That, to me, would be the pinnacle of all the hard work put in. However, it is a funny thing because one could identify Lars right off the bat... however, i don't think he has reached that level, well, i KNOW he hasn't reached that level. Therefore, i guess i would rephase and say; to make an individual statement in a genre that is very tried and true, that is when you are at the upper echelon of your craft.

To step into pop music or jazz, or some other genre that has been around the block, and stay within the bounds of what that music 'is' and yet be identifiable and have your personality come through, that is when you have reached that level.

That is what i always strive for, practice hours and hours a day for. I sit and play to that damn click and work on those damned licks that i know i have to master before i can truly say something new. You know, break the bounds that separate the mind and body, bring the two closer together on a daily basis so i can say what i need to say.

I this is off topic, but i wanted to respond to Pocket... this would probably make a great topic. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Hilary Jones doesn't really have a reason to be stuck up, IMO.

Very average...I said that on the drums newsgroup and some guy who supposedly works for DW threatened to kick my ass.

I also met Ersko and he was great.

It doesn't surprise me that Tony was crazy, his music was crazy.

Quote:

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Originally posted by benrand:
It doesn't surprise me that Tony was crazy, his music was crazy.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-That's the funniest comment I've heard so far this year.

Regarding Bruford, I met him last year and that was really, really nice. He showed great interest and was really friendly.

I met J.R. Robinson about a year and a ? ago at the Stockholm International Fairs (NAMM type of thing but much smaller) when he was on his clinic tour for Yamaha and Zildjian.
To me this was going to be like meeting Jeff, Carlos or Gadd!!!
He sat by himself cause people were to busy checking out some "chopsy" finish bass player.
I walked around trying to come up with something to say/ask.
Anyway, finally I went up to him and said something like: "Uh, Mr.Robinson, nice to meet you...".
We talked for like 10-15 minutes about music and drumming. He was super nice and very helpful... Funny too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Btw, he sat down and played on a kid-sized kit for some dad who asked if he could show his son some stuff. Within 10 seconds about 50 people was standing around watching... Talk about GROOVE!
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/music.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

EB

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Eaglebeat ]</font>

J.R. needs more recognition than he gets. His name, IMO, should be up there with Jeff and Carlos.

His body of work speaks for itself.

Quote:

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J.R. needs more recognition than he gets. His name, IMO, should be up there with Jeff and Carlos.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-matricks


No doubt about it.
He's The Iron Horse of the studio/session guys.
...so musical and groovy.

Another player is Nashville's Eddie Bayers.
Never met him but exchanged a few e-mails with him, very nice guy.

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

J.R's work with Tom Scott etc. He's one of the few who can really Groove with Abraham Laboriel!

I met Alex Acuna at a Clinic and a Gig he did the night before, and he just radiates something that touches you so deep, we talked about Bill Maxwell and Koinonia and he seemed to be very serious about talking with you, not just some superficial chit chat. I'm a huge fan of Alex Acuna and Bill Maxwell so those two nights were some of the greatest of that year!.

Met SSmith twice. Once he was luke warm but cordial(friendlier to those who actually bought a CD) How he might have known I already had one I'm not sure. The second time he was more friendly...it had been a good gig with lots of enthusiastic fans. Also met Rod Morgenstein who was very nice - we got to talking about Peart who he knows well

I know Rick from drumaddict's story as well. I heard the same exact story from him. He really had no reason to make it up as far as I can see. I've met most of the same guys that Addict has and I've had pretty much the same experiences. One of the best guys in the business, as far as I'm concerned, is Bissonette. He really encompasses it all. He has managed to maintain his "humanity" in the midst of all of his drum fame. I studied with him for about 4 years starting around 1984 or 85. This was right after he left the Maynard gig and moved out to CA from Texas. He is the exact same guy now that he was then. Hasn't changed a bit. I've never seen another musician treat other people with such kindess and respect. In all the years I've know him I've never, ever seen him get mad or have a cross word with anyone. When you experience a player of his magnitude, with that kind of personality, it becomes very difficult to stomach the behaviors of some of these other guys. It just don't wash! Met Jeff a couple of times too. He was very kind to me. The guy exuded cool and hipness.
CB

That story with Tony sounds crazy! It's definately true that those drummers are also just human and I am sure you can catch them having a bad day. Nonetheless, depending on how close this story is to the truth - that was a crazy encounter.

"That's Life"

I agree. My disappointment was Steve Smith, and is each year at NAMM. I am really amazed that these guys who are great performers, who know what pressure and discipline is, who are so intelligent do not or choose to not prepare for such a show, as though they are unaware of their status as drummers and musicians.

The great fact is almost all are good guys, leaving personal bias aside for four days!

One positive for me was meeting Moyas Lucas. He did the 2nd Steve Perry solo CD and nailed a Jeff Porcaro type feel. When I shared my observations of his playing he said I was the first to share that with him and that he dedicated his playing in memory of Jeff. Other great guys are Abe Jr & Curt Bisquera. These two embrace you as though you are bros from high school hangin' together. Billy Ward & Zoro are very cool as well.

Timing is key IMO. If Vinnie is signing at the Zildjian booth with 50 guys in line, the conversation is short and sweet, almost impersonal. That's to be expected.

Having a 'no expectation' attitude is key for myself.

I teach at the biggest drum shop in the country, and we do about a dozen clinics a year. I don't want to name names, but on many occasions the guys we idolize here have proven themselves to be partial or complete dicks. I've seen one extremely well known drummer be a jerk on 3 different occasions. I've only seen the guy 3 times!

Being "human" doesn't excuse arrogance, rudeness or anything else. Odds are that if you've witnessed it, it's not an anomaly, it's a part of who they are. It's certainly disappointing to discover that kind of behavior in someone who's playing you admire.

Most of the drummers we've had in clinic have shown themselves to be gracious, caring and generous to their fans. They are into more than just themselves. Those are the one's who have are likely to have better careers and lives. They like to laugh, share and enjoy the success they've achieved. The others are simply good at playing the drums.

Brad

The only time i saw Tony, he gave off a very bad vibe before he even sat down... it was a clinic and the way he answered people's questions, f*ck Tony... i don't care how good he is. He ain't curing cancer or anything, he is a drummer for God's sake. The only person he was nice to was, you guessed it, a black guy... hey, don't like white people, to each their own. I call a white racist an asshole, and i call a black racist an asshole, and f*ck you Tony, you are an asshole.

Lenny White on the other hand, class-act. Wonderful guy, wonderful.

Joel Rosenblatt... amazing guy. 100% real guy. Took lessons with Joel, the guy even went through and showed me things that he couldn't play to prove that he isn't 'all that'... THAT is a cool thing to do, VERY humble.

Chapin... what can you say... he is a legend and acts like your best buddy, gets excited like a kid when you play something that he digs.

Smitty... very kind... soft-spoken.

Horacio... i told him how much i liked his drumming and the guy gave me a bear hug and told me how much he appreciated it. Then he hung out and chatted.

Virgil... very quiet but gracious.

Marco... very funny, hangs like a 'normal' guy, joking, laughing, sat down and just kicked it with us, had a drink.

Thomas... funny dude, cordial person.

The list goes on... the only person i have anything negative to say about is Tony. I love his playing, but if he did that to ME in an alley, he would have been lucky to walk after that, let alone play drums.

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ January 12, 2005 12:20 AM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 12:36 AM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>

Vinnie. Twice. Much time had passed bewtween the 2 encounters. Very sweet & considerate guy, these days.

Weck's friendly, albeit in a low-key, 'even-keel' kind of way. [Try not to expect too much from these guys if running into them, anyway. The experience for them isn't quite the same as it is for you. [img]wink.gif[/img] ] They run into peeps that "want a piece of them" enough, I'm sure. And they're busy guys anyway.

Virg is a friendly guy, too. Although sometimes it looks like he's staring into the far distant future, or burning a hole past some folks [prob thinking of a new twisted fusion groove]. Understandable.

Boomer, when I met him after a Jazz Is Dead show, was very nice & considerate.

Ersk was laid-back, soft-spoken, & a very nice guy. Similarly, Chad W. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Gregg is very cool, & also very zany. [Vinnie used to be a little zany like this, too.]

Rodney Holmes - great guy. Very friendly.

I have heard [uh-oh, watch the goss] from a reliable source that SCopeland, BRich, & Chambers weren't having their best day when he met them, shall we say.

I guess it can all depend upon what moment you run into them, which is natural to everyone. But I also agree w Brad's comments about it.

I saw Moyes Lucas [sp?] in the drum chair w pop star George Michael back around '87/8 or so...took my GF ATT to see GM. Incredible show, BION. Awesome band. He [ML] is a great player. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 12:59 AM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

That story is indeed true although who knows what led up to it. He may have had something personal going on that day and just wigged out on an innocent person. Either way you shouldn't treat an admiring fan that way. Buddy Rich was a classic tirante as well but when I met him he was very personable. I've met some drummers like - Louie Bellson, Porcaro, Erskine, Bissonette, Acuna, Conte, Lawson, and Chambers who were more than cool. These guys just made me feel like they cared about talking to me as a person and not a subordinate human. In fact even Tony was cool when I briefly spoke to him one year at Namm. On the other hand, guys like Steve Smith, and Weckl came across as pre-madonnas and to good to entertain a conversation. Both those guys did drum clinics for me at a store I managed and just wanted to get it done and go home even after the crew and I crew spent weeks preparing for the events. Just classless....
I'm sure there are drummers out there that have had the opposite experiences with all these guys. It's true that we all have our moments of thoughtlessness and I do realize that we shouldn't expect any person to be perfect all the time.
What is hard is to listen to and enjoy a drummer without bias after having a negative meeting with them. Don't even get me started on Hilary Jones....

VDrummer,
I couldn't agree more...

Oh, please do get started on Hilary Jones, i wanna hear about it! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Hilary is just to much to get into. I try to forget about her negative energy...

[It's in the name...] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img] J/K

I'm lucky to have met and become friends with a lot of my drum heros. I never got a chance to meet Jeff which was so sad, but I've heard great things about the cat...

The ONLY one guy I've ever seen be downright rude was Dennis Chambers. Maybe Steve Smith wasn't as friendly as I'd have hoped but he wasn't rude...

I'm nobody's drum hero, but when I chat to people about drums, I'm as humble and polite as can be. That's not false modesty or anything. That was my parents teaching me how to be a good human being!!!

MP

The personality coming through in one's playing is a fascinating topic to me...I agree with it one hundred percent...

I can understand why some of these 'artists' have attitudes...I mean, it must be an incredible burden to be so respected and admired and have people fawning over you at all times...poor guys/gals...

[img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

Well, imagine having someone emulate you down to the hairstyle.

That has GOT to be wierd...

Great topic!

Back when I started drumming (the grunge era), I was a HUGE pearl jam / dave abbruzzese fan and I sent dave a "fan-mail" letter via sabian. I put my phone number in it hoping that he would have the heart to call me if he did not have the time to write back via snail mail. Sure enough, weeks later the phone rings, and you wouldn't believe it... it was Dave! We talked for a good half our on his long distance tab, what an amazing person and great hero he was to do that at the time. I will never forget that. It's too bad Eddie sacked him for all the wrong reasons.

I also met Mike Portnoy when I went through my Dream Theater phase, that was nice. He was a very down-to-earth and kind guy... no ego like you would imagine!

Steve Smith: humble, gentle, soft-spoken.

Mike Mangini: Bursting with energy and personality, never a dull moment!

Dom Famularo: Neverending enthusiasm and motivation, with excellent delivery!

Billy Cobham: We'll let his drumming speak for him [img]frown.gif[/img]

Virgil Donati: Modest off stage, seems like a good guy.

Kenny Arnoff: Heard bad thnigs from a friend who teched for him at a clinic... gave me looks (don't know if it was good or bad) when I was playing an elec kit near his autograph signing table.

Chad Smith: Great guy, eccentric in a good way.

Anyways, the list goes on...

Yeah, I heard that guy got fired from Pearl Jam for being too normal. He always seemed like a cool guy.

Rudy, I know someone who had a similar exp w DG [because i was there also]. I've heard others who had similar exp's w BC as yours, but my pleasant exp w da Boom on da Cob was fairly recent ['03].

Gary Novak was also a nice cat [aft a CCEB2 PTW show].

I forgot about Will K. He was a very nice & positive cat also. So was Rod M.

O Baterista - funny comment by Sorum. [img]wink.gif[/img] I can relate... ;c\

Met Bruf in the early 80's...soft-spoken, articulate, & very "English"-proper. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Ditto about JR. Bayers, too - groove-meister, AWA Nash's Paul Leim, Lonnie Wilson, Milton Sledge, Steve Turner, Greg Morrow...some are not chops guys & some are. But all can pocket like a mutha.

I've heard several stories that resonate the same about TW. There are a couple of guys in here that have exp'd similarly.

Ashbaugh was also a cool guy too.

Quote:

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"gave me looks (don't know if it was good or bad) when I was playing an elec kit near his autograph signing table"

"Yeah, I heard that guy got fired from Pearl Jam for being too normal"

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 12, 2005 05:46 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

Ahhh Chad Smith- went to see a clinic of him when I was 10 years old. He made fun of my grandmother, who was at the clinic with me...He told her that instead of being at the clinic she should be at home sitting in a rocking chair smoking crack!

I guess he was being "funny"-kinda rude though

-Ed

Ditto on ALL HOD'ers! Everybody I've met has been great!

Randy and I spoke over the phone once for over an hour. Very straight up guy--obviously very informative dude.

Seeing Steve H play in a little jazz trio was wonderful (Java N' Jazz)--never forget that yell during a fill ("Yeah!")--enthusiasm rocks!

T-Bo was fun to hang with at the UCLA Vinnie gig and Smith clinic--humble guy with movie star looks. Funny as heck.

Drums4Fun couldn't be nicer.

LA DANNY--sweet spirit. Great salad dressing!

I feel I know so many here. Trading with many as well.

JR was a super guy at NAMM. He took the time to really instruct a young 13YO drummer w/his dad--giving educational advice. Very sincere.

Johnny Rabb was also a great guy, and I concur about Will K--spiritually strong and his wife is equally as classy.

Jonathon Moffit--Class! Very humble and gentle spirit.

Man...I'm pumped about NAMM again! Have we nailed down the time & place to meet? Sat 3PM was it?

Chris, that is an awesome story about Dave from Pearl Jam... i loved his playing with them.

I've told this story on here a hundred times but, I got to spend a few hours taking lessons with Billy Ashbaugh while on vacation in Florida a few years ago. Super nice and friendly, very down to earth guy.

After a clinic I got to hang out with Stanton Moore and shoot the breeze for about 15-20 mins. He was really nice, in fact I was standing around and he came over and talked to me! He invited me to a gig he was doing but, at the time, I wasn't old enough to get into the bar he was playing at. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]


I also think it's an interesting topic regarding your personality coming out in your playing. I think your personality will definitely come out in your playing, as well as anything else you do in life. I think to find you voice on the instrument you first have to be confident in who you are as a person.

I met Pocket Player at the BP a couple of times. He was very nice. Derek Defields is a straight-up good friend, as well as Drumdawg, and T-bo. I met Drums4fun a couple of times as well. Extremely nice.

Seriously, I don't like to name name's really but I've heard good and bad stories about the guys I like. I agree there's no excuse for being disrespectful (including fame) but we all know what it's like to have bad day, or snap at someone. And that's just under normal day-to-day circumstances without guys wanting pictures or autographs all the time after dealing with a retarded soundman on a gig. Again, I don't excuse it, but I do understand it. It sucks some folks don't have the discipline to not be dicks. And it can be particularly damaging when your hero is a dick to you too. It's not some Joe off the street obviously.

Quote:

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Originally posted by the grove:
Yeah, I heard that guy got fired from Pearl Jam for being too normal. He always seemed like a cool guy.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dave was fired due to personal differences with Vedder. Eddie disliked the fact that Dave used so many cymbals and that he had a cover story in modern drummer among other pathetic reasons. Eddie didn't even have the guts to fire him face to face, so he got Stone to do it. Pathetic! A shame really since the band went downhill right after his departure!