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http://www.rolandus.com/
Click the bottom right video in the video section on the main page. The new set looks and sounds pretty sweet! Their doing alot of stuff the jimbo has been doing but with the roland. I wouldnt be suprisd if some program all their songs and play everything and just take the drumset for the whole gig [img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]
Slightly off topic.
But, I used to play in a band with one of the guitarist for Roland, Johnny DeMarco and his brother Freddie. These guys are fantastic players.
He has a demo on this site for effects pedals.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/det...20&PageMode=15
It's kinda funny watching him work it the "Corporate way!"
Great set. Even a snare buzz on the tom sounds! Would love to try it some time,.
That td-12 sounds amazing. So many options I wouldn't know what to do with it. Do you know how much the td-12 goes for?
retails for about $4,200 and I found it for about $3,700
It's a little high but almost $2,000 cheaper then the td-20.
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<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 12, 2005 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Kurt R ]</font>
Johnny Rabb's coming to the Drum Pad (www.thedrumpad.com) for a clinic/demonstration next month. If you're in the Chicago area, definitely check it out.
Brad
So what do you think is the real difference between the V12 and 20 -- big difference in cost, of course.
Man, if Rabb has no gigs in a year, he'll deffinitely gonna get a job as a salesman hehe [img]smile.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haha, yeah. I like his line where he says "I am playing the black kit. It even comes in white! That's amazing!". Gotta love it.Quote:
Originally posted by Klemme:
Man, if Rabb has no gigs in a year, he'll deffinitely gonna get a job as a salesman hehe [img]smile.gif[/img]
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TD20Quote:
Originally posted by MRhet:
So what do you think is the real difference between the V12 and 20 -- big difference in cost, of course.
More pad inputs, 15 on TD20(actually 14 with the bell of ride). TD12 has 12(actually 11 with bell of ride)
TD20 More outputs, 8 mono direct, Spdif digital, two master, headphones. TD12---2 master, 2 direct, phones.
TD20 compact flash card input. None for TD12.
TD20 More onboard volume sliders, 8(with a switch that makes it 15). Td12--6(with a swap to 11)
TD20 has a future expansion slot(which should at least get one card before the TD30 comes out, and it will have more sounds, and probably the extra sequences of the TD12)
The TD20 has bigger pads, one more tom and one more cymbal included.
The VH12 is a larger hihat and has two cymbals, rather than one; a more realistic feel, slower set-up time, though not much.
The TD20 has more onboard effects, a multi effects processor plus 15 compressors and eq's, and a master compressor/eq. The TD12 has way less effects(5), a verb and NO compressors.
The TD20 will cost you more money, but will give you a much more professional package. The sounds and kits are outrageously good. It is expandable, so you know you can dump another few hundred down the road to give you something new.
Save up and get the TD20. I have one. You will be very pleased.
Or, you can wait and see how long Armadillo Enterprizes will take to make the new DDRUM, which they bought from Clavia. I'm selling my DDRUM4, the TD20(and TD12) smokes it real bad [img]graemlins/party.gif[/img]
I thought it was amazing it came in white as well. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Thanks FlamTriplet.
What kind of amplification do you use with the TD20?
Al
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TD20Quote:
Originally posted by FlamTriplet:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRhet:
So what do you think is the real difference between the V12 and 20 -- big difference in cost, of course.
More pad inputs, 15 on TD20(actually 14 with the bell of ride). TD12 has 12(actually 11 with bell of ride)
TD20 More outputs, 8 mono direct, Spdif digital, two master, headphones. TD12---2 master, 2 direct, phones.
TD20 compact flash card input. None for TD12.
TD20 More onboard volume sliders, 8(with a switch that makes it 15). Td12--6(with a swap to 11)
TD20 has a future expansion slot(which should at least get one card before the TD30 comes out, and it will have more sounds, and probably the extra sequences of the TD12)
The TD20 has bigger pads, one more tom and one more cymbal included.
The VH12 is a larger hihat and has two cymbals, rather than one; a more realistic feel, slower set-up time, though not much.
The TD20 has more onboard effects, a multi effects processor plus 15 compressors and eq's, and a master compressor/eq. The TD12 has way less effects(5), a verb and NO compressors.
The TD20 will cost you more money, but will give you a much more professional package. The sounds and kits are outrageously good. It is expandable, so you know you can dump another few hundred down the road to give you something new.
Save up and get the TD20. I have one. You will be very pleased.
Or, you can wait and see how long Armadillo Enterprizes will take to make the new DDRUM, which they bought from Clavia. I'm selling my DDRUM4, the TD20(and TD12) smokes it real bad [img]graemlins/party.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I use my headphones mainly, I have not gigged with them. I have a pair of Mackie SRM450's. They sound great. BUT... after getting them, and pushing them, I found out they have a heat activeted shut off. So if they get hot, they shut down. And then they work when they get cooler. BUMMER.Quote:
Originally posted by pgroover:
What kind of amplification do you use with the TD20?
It probably would be best to get some JBL's and crank them, cause they are made to take it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't that what we've tried [a thousand times] to get RID of?! [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by Suspiria:
...Even a snare buzz on the tom sounds!...
[img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ironically, the best sounding bits of that demo thing were when he used the normal guitar with no synth... lolQuote:
He has a demo on this site for effects pedals.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/det...20&PageMode=15
On the demo (and Rabb is a great player!!) I'm hearing the stick on rubber before hearing the sound from the module (interesting....).
I played the TD-20 kit every Sunday morning for many months in a variety of amplification setups. Recently switched back to a nice set of acoustics.....NO COMPARISON. One of the most significant findings is hearing the difference in how the other musicians, vocalists and congregation react to the acoustics vs. electronics.
In my experience with this kit, my input did not appear in the output the way it does with a good acoustic kit.
That delay is so small, yet makes such a difference! I notice especially when switching from playnig electronics for a while. I once did this for one week straight and believe it or not, it actually some minutes to adjust too. It's not such a big deal but hopfully something Roland will be continiously working on to improve. With those high-end kits its already better than it used to be.
The delay drove me crazy! On the TD-10 the delay is 3-4ms. I haven't measured it yet for the TD-20. Someone else had mentioned the adjustment period moving from electronics with headphones to acoustics (it may have been Fuse). The first time I experienced this effect was at my second lesson with Weckl and I had been practising a lot. But, when I sat down to his acoustics after playing on my V's for several weeks, it was like I couldn't play at all. So, I started to suspect that there might be some delay that I had adapted to that may have thrown off my timing when switching to the acoustics. Sure enough, it was there when I measured it. I just stopped practising with headphones so I could hear the real-time stick attack and now there's no problems switching between the two instruments.
The problem with using the electronic instrument in a live band setting is that no one hears the initial attack, if the music is loud enough, so you're back to adapting to the delay.
Right you are, Andy.
It was I who said that AW.
I played for a couple months on the TD-10, & transferring back to the real drums was a real freak-out eye-opener. I totally freaked on how I couldn't play the acou like I used to.
It indeed took a week [or two! [img]eek.gif[/img] ] to become TOTALLY comf again on the acou kit. It scared the he** outta me, tho. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Another thing is [besides the obv delay, AWA the sonic logistics of the fact that the sound s are not coming from the actual source that's struck] - the feel of the mesh pads. Believe it or not, altho they feel good of themselves, if you play a long time on them, your technique will be drastically altered & practically null when you get back on the acou until after many days of acclamation. At first, it's a real freak.
Solution if you have the e kit, is to play them both intermittently, & constantly[?]...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 17, 2005 04:32 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
That's why i'm using Pearls Practice kit. Has equally same feel as the high end Roland drums and costs litteraly 1/15 of their price hehe.
As long as the delay problems and other infrigments are happening on the front, these kits remains as a Toy.
I didn't know delay was such a major issue. I mentioned it to a drum shop employee here in Montreal who said such delay does not exist and looked at me like I had no idea what I was talking about.
I'm with Suspiria on this. Nowadays there should be no real latency issue.
I have a much lower level set of e-drums and there are no delays.
Of course it is true that there may be some very, very quick delay that I can't hear -- but the same would be true for an electric guitar or keyboard. Virtually, however, there is none.
Now I did have a slight latency issue running into my computer at times, but that was solved with a better computer sound card.
If the more expensive Rolands haven't solved that issue, that would be an amazing story. Anything is possible, of course.
There's a bit of delay on some patches due to extra processing, but I can live with it. I use the kit for late at night shedding. I practice with my band and play gigs with real drums(I trigger the kicks in my band). Real drums are the best, no comparison. But the TD20 sounds tremendous and is a lot of fun to play.
I'm not sure exactly, but if i remember correctly, the "delay" prob, at least as i experienced it, was actually due to running the master L & R outs into not a mixer, but a sony stereo receiver [in the spare bedroom], with the sounds then coming out of the 2 speakers [all longer cables connecting]....headphones eliminated most all of this prob...but the difference between the feel of each kit, coupled w the naturally differing ambient acoustic dynamics to the human ear [the acou as opposed to the e pads], are not major, but somewhat if slightly significant enough. JMO
It is a good thing, FT, that you use both the acou AWA e's intermittently, no doubt. I was ref'g to using the e's exclusively for long periods of time [acoustics packed away - i know, sacrilege; heresy!]. I found it had def affected my perception & technique when I wennt back to acou. it was obviously a whole diff dynamic, to me anyway. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Nothing like striking a real snare AOT the mesh...the toms are somewhat closer in feel to each other...
I too used the TD-10 Vs mainly in the evenings [img]wink.gif[/img] [& occasionally in the hotel rooms]
I also agree that there are great sounds in the brain.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 17, 2005 04:59 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, not so, I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally posted by MRhet:
I'm with Suspiria on this. Nowadays there should be no real latency issue. I have a much lower level set of e-drums and there are no delays.
Consider the signal chain in the average module. The trigger inputs are first converted to MIDI commands. These are then fed to a MIDI sound generator to produce a sound waveform. Then these sounds are post-processed (reverb, and so on) before being sent to the audio outs. All of this takes a finite amount of time.
The reason your "lower-end" module has a lower latency is that is doesn't do the huge amount of so-called wonderful extensive COSM modelling that the Roland modules do, which adds a significant further overhead to the processing time.
Hmm -- the problem is the human ear can't hear latency of 2 - 4 mms.
Now if you are running through a computer or other processor yes depending on your processor speed you may have some difficulty. But straight to an amp -- I just don't think so. If the ROLAND can't process it at a fast enough level, then they have an inferior product. If you are having that situation, then you should call them. But, I would be surprised. Remember these are digital instruments ? not really different from a keyboard -- can you imagine a keyboardist being able to play with strong latency? Couldn?t do it.
Do this test -- record a MIDI track (there won't be latency there, its too simple), then run an audio track into a program such as SONAR. They should link up at the same rate. At worst, the sound should be a little fatter, but that is all.
??