I'll bet its the heads and the overall tuning
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I'll bet its the heads and the overall tuning
I used to own a Yamaha Recording Custom set and now own a Maple Custom Absolute set. I love Yamaha drums, but their bass drums are definitely the weak points. Very strange.
i'm thinking that it has something to do with the number of plys. meaning that their kick drums seem thicker than most drums. when i look at a dw or gretsch, their ply count seems a bit thinner or less than that of yamahas. do you think that contributes to the overall attack and resonance?
i got a maple custom kit, the toms are absolutley B-E-A-utiful. the kick is a bit of a dissapointment(22x18). however, i also have a custom recording kit. about 20 yrs old. that kick sounds great! 22x18
my buddy's got a brand new DW kit.....i was totally unimpressed with the whole set.
another buddy of mine has the tama starclassic maple.......holy shiiiite! what a BASS DRUM!
awesome
Wow, I also looked at one of these kits at GC (Sherman Oaks) but was not impressed across the board. Here's what I found:
10" tom sounded great off the mount. Once I put it on, on the kick drum, the tom sounded totally choked.
12" tom sounded pretty good on and off the mount.
14" ft sounded the best
22" kick drum was dead with toms on or off. I messed around with the tuning as well, but it just had no life.
So I got my 70s Gretsch kit instead. :-)
Danny
I tend to notice that employees of GC are apparently tone def, cause everytime I go into one of them the drums sound like sh*t, not to mention they don't know how to set up equipment.
But, I have noticed Yamaha kicks are a little weak.
I think Weckl's kick drum sound on Transition is horrible. That wasthe first time I really noticed a Yamaha kick that was unpleasent in timbre.
i think you can fix up any bass drum to sound decent to great.
hmmmm.....i am seriously looking at getting this kit. but someone's gotta convince me that there's some resolution to this problem. perhaps a head / pillow combo soultion? the guy at GC is going to give me the exact purchase price credit towards this kit. it is a beauty. it's a black sparkle fade (custom color). 8x8, 10x8, 12x9, 14x14 and 16x16 withthe forementioned 22x18. i've tried the pdp but it just wasn'ttaking me where i wanted it to go. so i'm thinking of putting this on lay-away.
I'll bet an EMAD on batter with a falam patch, wood/plastic beater, and with Res. front no hole could make this puppy pound pretty well.
Danny
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 24, 2005 05:15 PM: Message edited by: ladanny ]</font>
No emad
EQ2 or Powerstroke3 or Aquarian superkic batter, single ply reso, no hole. DW/Evans pilow inside with a patch at beater impact. Medium/loose batter side, medium reso.
This will give you what u want.
danny and randy,
you guys get an honorary phd. in bass-drum-ology (alrighty a little corn) but i certainly appreciate the input! [img]smile.gif[/img]
randy, i love your photo with the taye drum people. nice suit btw.
Chuch, this is the one at Sherman Oaks GC? I live right near there. (I think I saw you coming out of KooKooRoo a couple weeks ago on Ventura)
That kit is great. It's the Black Sparkle Burst which is my favorite of the new Yamaha colors.
If you can get a good deal, get it. (or give me the deal and I'll buy another kit [img]cool.gif[/img] )
hey derek,
actually it's the one in BREA (north orange county). it is definitely a work of art. aesthetically and ergonomically. so sonically i was hoping for a better bass sound.
go ahead, get the kit! we'll be brothers in arm!
i was thinking of trading the 8" back in for thier brass 7x14 snare. what do you guys think?
I'd blow off the 8". I haven't used mine in years.
thanks derek,
that's what i was kinda leanin' towards.
You can get these bass drums to sound good, but they'll never be outstanding. You just need to experiment with different dampening methods (rolled up towels, pillows, packing blanket, etc.) and heads. A coated ambassador tuned really loose sounds good, as does the Power Stroke III (which is more durable too).
Funny thing is, I had a Tour Custom 20" x 17" that reallly DID sound amazing...Something about that ratio. Maybe the 22" needs to have a depth of 19".
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 24, 2005 06:48 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>
Funny how things turn around. I remember a topic not too long ago where the general consensus was that MC kicks were awesome and the strong point of these kits.
Mine is 22x18, loose Powerstroke 3 with FalamSlam patch on batter, medium resonant with 6" mic hole, pillow barely touching both heads, quad Pearl felt beater. Kills, so I've heard.
tombo,
i know exactly what topic you were talking about. that's why i was soooo dissappointed? perhaps it is the stock heads. *crossing fingers*.
all you guys wrock!
Almost forgot, I heard Steve playing a MCA at Zildjian for maybe 45 minutes and the kick was absolutely killing out front but sounded pretty flat and dead from behind the kit.
Maybe he remembers what heads/muffling there were on that. I think it was a Fiberskyn batter ebony ambassador front with no hole.
I also agree that all kicks are workable but I prefer my stuff a bit more muffled than most.
I think Derek makes a very good point with hearing a kick drum from out front. I've noticed this with my own set. The bass drum sounds a bit choked and flat from the throne but when I have someone else play it and I hear it from out front it sounds a whole lot better.
From my experience, the sound you got from behind your kick as all to do with the room and the feedback you got from it (depends on size, materials, other objects,...). I got a pretty good sound from behind in my studio (10'x20'). Last weekend I gigged in the nicest hall in town and was so disapointed: when not through the PA, my kick sound was so thin and dead, barely audible; but comments was that it was superb out front.
Also trying a kit in a drumshop where it's surrounded by 10-20 other kits is really a coin toss. All this stuff vibrates and can improve or worsen the overall sound you perceive. I went with a student and he tried the Chad Smith Signature snare which was on a kit on a riser in the middle of the drumshop with ~20 other kits. Sound in the shop was FABULOUS. He bought it right away. Back home, it was so thin and average, he almost cried...
The bass drum sound has everything to do with dimensions, roundness of shell, heads, type of beater, head tensioning and species/quality of wood (in that order). Who the manufacturuer is doesn't really change the sound that much - just the appearance, functionality and durability etc.
i was playing a yamaha maple absolute noveau at GC the other day and i noticed one thing. the toms sounded beautiful but the 22x18 kick had no punch nor resonance. it came with full head up front and a clear ambassador with a reinforcement ring built into it. perhaps it's the room? i was a bit confused / dissappointed but is it only me?
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 24, 2005 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Da Chuch ]</font>
Ditto what Derek said.
Usually the Yammy bass drums sound good out front, but terrible from behind the kit (IMO). I couldn't deal with such an uninspiring sound at source, even if it was the greatest kick in the world from a distance...
MP
DaChuch,what pic? the pic of me in a suit is with Peter Marshall (hollywood squares), i do occasional gigs with him.
A drum builder friend of mine told me this about Yamaha's Bass drums.
Yamaha finishes the inside of the bass drum with a thin hard seal finish. So, the sound bounces off the inside of the drum. Other companies do not do this in the same way.
He told me to try this to open up the bass drums sound a tad.
Take some very light sand paper and lightly hand sand the inside of the Yamaha Bass drum. Just enough to remove the thin finish.Make sure you do this evenly.
Then wipe out all the dust and use a high quality paste wax and polish the inside.Let it dry and apply another coat.
This will open up the pores so the sound will travel through the drum as well as out of the drum.
I tried this on a 20" Maple Custom and it really did make the drum sound more full.
Hope this helps.
Randy-man,
Everytime I see the new DW add with Marco, I do a double take, cuz he's starting to look like you!!
Danny
LMAO
randy, i believe that picture is the one. you look 'spiffy' dawling. he heh....
btw,
i took some of your advice on the kick. the yamaha kick came with heads that had reinforcement rings around the batter side and had even a thinner rienforcement ring on the reso side. i happen to notice that when i took off the head. then, i found an old akg D112 with the may internal mic-ing arm from my drum closet and voila! no hole needed to be drilled in the reso head. to add to that, i put what they call a 'buckwheat husk' pillow leaning against the batter head. basically a SOBAKAWA but without the name. the thing i like about it is that it is heavy and dense but not sandbag dense. catch ma drift? so with no hole, the pillow, the falam patch (came with the kit), this kick sounds HUGE!! i love the fact that these kicks have more than 1 vent holes. i have 2 holes for venting and one for the may mic-ing system. that did the trick! i LOVE this kit! i totally dig the noveau lugs. it makes head changing, esp. the kick sooooo easy. i opened the kick reso head without having to put the drums on it's side! pretty awesome.
thanks all ya guys, also...
can't wait for the next hang.
Okay Chuch, where can I get one of those "buckwheat husk" pillows? Is this an LP or Evans product?
Thanks,
Andy
hi andy,
actually my mom got it for me at korea-town in L.A.
i can email your directions.
for those of you who do not live near korea-town,
check it!
http://www.youcansave.com/sobakawa.asp
Glad it worked for you, as to mics, i use an Audix D6, a AKG D112 and a Shure Beta52 all on the May system.
My main DW kit has the Audix, my other DW has a beta 52 and my Ayottes and studio kits have D112s.
yeah, the may system is the way to go if you like to not put a hole in the front head. without causing controversy, that 18x22 kick comes pretty darned close to the old 80's gretsch (in the same sized) kick that i used to play. i actually would prefer using a beta 52 but i'm definitely on a budget with this new kit. i had the fortune of working a big venue and the sound crew used an audix D-6 on my 20 x 16 birch absolute kick and it sounded beefy and very focused. i'd definitly make the D6 a candidate if i was to look for a new kick mic.
so randy, you have 3 kits? yikes!! what are you a pro drummer or sumpin? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
me? could be LMAO
I actually have 7 kits
Gretsch, Ayotte, 2 DWs, a hipgig, a custom jazz kit, a Bearing Edge kit, plus around 25-30 snares.
I don't tour as much, but stay busy in the studio and also do sound on the side plus webcasts.
[img]wink.gif[/img]
I'm still waiting for you to perma-loan one of those snares! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Danny