Done bought a house... OT

Finally, I think.

In about an hour, we're going to take our second tour of a house we looked at a week ago. We've been shopping since June, really, but now the ball is rolling with a head of steam, and my wife loves this place. I'm nearly sold on it to, but I'm the pessimist, the skeptic, the anchor that has delayed this step from worry-free apartment living to responsibility-laiden home ownership. But there's no stopping her now, we're going to buy a house.

So this joint, like every other house we've seen in our limited price range, is an old miner's dwelling here in western PA. There are four bedrooms, 1 bathroom, an attic, kitchen, dining room, living room, foyer, laundry room, and an unfinished basement that probably leaks. However, this joint, unlike all its competitors, is freshly renovated. Instead of carpet in the bathroom, there's actually linoleum. Instead of old, tacky paneling in every room, there's fresh paint and even wallpaper. All the carpets are new, and the kitchen is redone. Fresh roof over the front porch and laundry, and the main roof looks good. Nice sized deck along the side. New furnace and water heater. Off street parking! Best we've seen out of half a dozen. The bonus is the "as is" rental unit out back, which is nearly big enough to make adequate slave quarters, but has potential being a four-room w/ basement joint on its own utilities (actually slightly bigger than our first apartment).

Yet despite all its ammenities, I'm still apprehensive about the whole situation. Ain't ne'er bought a house before. Don't wanna have to do it again for a while, but we can't get the dream house on our income. Then, there's the fact that this house is for sale by owner, and the owner is a bank...divorce and foreclosure are the hilights of that backstory. I know a realtor adds to the cost, but in my mind I want that safety net. I'm insecure that way, yet I want my family to live in this house.

Now, nothing's set in stone, and there's a guy that keeps sending us potential listings. There's a plan B on the backburner, too.

I'm just here to wonder, before we go there, and hopefully get some advice from those of yinz who've done this already. Did you use a realtor? Did you find more work to be done later that hadn't been apparent before you moved in? How do banks treat first-timers?

Thanks in advance.

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ October 26, 2006 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Imbalance ]</font>

Due money matters, I moved from a house to an apartment. At first I was looking by myself, but didn't liked anything I researched. I have a cousin that work for a realty company. She understood my needs and budget.

After several visits, she finally found one for a good price....5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, kitchen, dinner area and even a studio and patio !!!

Of course, the second floor still need some maintenance, but I will do it at my own pace. The bad reality is that there is not enough place to display my figures unless I use the walls...but I wanted to use some IKEA glass cabinets....

Nostromo

First off, congrats on the step into homo-nership [img]wink.gif[/img]

I've bought 2, sold 2 and had 1 house built so I've got at least a little experience here.... let's see if I can answer, or shed some light at least on some of your questions.

I used realtors for the buying and selling of all of my houses, but not the new construction (dealt with the construction company for that, which was an entirely different nightmare.) You might want to consider getting a buying agent to represent you. Buying agents only get about a 3% commission, while the selling agent normally takes about 7%. The buying agent will help you through the closing paperwork, which will be VERY confusing your first time through. If you don't get a buying agent you should get a real estate lawyer to at least look over the closing papers to make sure everything's kosher before slapping down your John Hancock. The real estate lawyer will probably cost a little more, and the funds to pay them probably will have to come out of your pocket while the 3% that pays the selling agent comes out of the proceeds of the house. If the seller won't work with a selling agent DEFINITLY get the lawyer, or tell the seller to eat a dick (they're probably trying something shady, which happens VERY often, trust me. I work in the Title Insurance business and see it all the time.)

One thing you want to make SURE you do is get an inspector in to look at the place. The inspector will verify that the roof that looks good IS good, and that the basement wall that leaks isn't a hard sneeze away from falling in on you. Without an inspector it?s very easy to get stuck with some turd wrapped in gold that will be nothing but a nightmare for you. DO NOT get an inspector that any realtors involved with the house suggests (even one in the same office.) Do some research of home inspectors in your area and hire them yourself. You'll have to pay for the inspection out of your pocket (they run around $250 in my area) as opposed to having it be incorporated into your mortgage or closing costs, but believe me, it's worth it. A good inspector will clue you in to what work will have to be done that you or I would never notice, and could point out a BIG flaw in the home that could sway your ultimate decision.


In terms of banks treating first-time buyers, the bank that I went with on my first mortgage (which just so happened to be the bank that I worked for at the time) was a complete nightmare. Thing is, I didn't know how bad it was till I bought my second house and saw how smooth and easy that process was. Again, do your homework on banks and lenders in your area. There are probably a zillion mortgage companies and brokers that may be able to get you better rates and/or closing costs then the big banks in your area. With your first mortgage expect to have to come up with a shit load of paperwork. I hope you kept your tax returns for the past few years, you'll probably need those. But again, check around, because there are lenders in my area that do "No doc" and ?limited doc? loans if you're credit score's good enough.

Speaking of credit score, make sure you go to Experian, Trans Union and Equifax and get your credit rating BEFORE shopping for your mortgage. Go over the credit report with a fine toothed comb, as there could be some funky stuff on there that clearing up could really up your credit rating and make your mortgage process easier and your rate lower. There are a billion "Free Credit Report" websites out there that personally I don't trust, I've always gone straight to the source companies. You are entitled one free credit report a year, so this shouldn't cost you anything, whether you go to the source or a free credit report site.

I think that?s all I have right now, but I think it covers all your questions. If you have any other questions feel free to email me ([email protected].) I?m in no way a real estate professional, but I have done quite well in the real estate game and therefore gone through all of this a few times.

LMK/take pics of the roof & I'll look at them-

16 oc or 24 oc on the rafters?

oh & good luck [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

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Instead of old, tacky paneling in every room.................

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">am I the only guy who likes this stuff [img]confused.gif[/img]

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ August 31, 2006 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Street Worm ]</font>

We're buying a house too!
We were in escrow on the first home, but the inpsection made this what seemed like the perfect place a money pit.

We are in the process of looking at more homes now and have placed offers on two of them.

What makes me cry is seeing the prices of homes in other states. What we could afford if we only lived somewheres else. However, I'm one of the few people that really loves living in California. $500,000 for a 3br, 2ba. on 7226sq.ft. piece of land. [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img]

Congrats!!

I'm hoping to get back into another house in the next few years...

Congrats !!!!! Definitely buy a house. Mine has appreciated three times what I paid for it. Of course I'd have to pay three times more to move to a new one. Don't be too afraid of having to fix things as an owner. I think I've had to hire a plumber so far and that's it. Of course, now that I've said that all my appliances will fail tomorrow.

The main thing is you'll have equity, and a very nice tax deduction.

Welcome to the homo* community!

<font size="1">*(HOMe Owner)</font>

We've bought 2 houses in the past 2 years...we only stayed at our first house for a year, then we moved and bought a new house a year ago. Both times the process went fairly smoothly...and all of the people we used (realtors, mortgage co, home inspector, etc.) all came from word-of-mouth recommendations. So my only real advice is try to talk to other people in your area to get the real scoop on who is good to use and who isn't. And unless you buy a house new, there is almost always going to be some kind of updating to be done, a lot of which you can do on your own. Just ask your home inspector lots of questions, and don't be shy about it even if you think the questions are "dumb".

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ September 01, 2006 10:18 AM: Message edited by: munkkeyboy ]</font>

I don't know what the realtors are charging in mac's area, but 6% total is the going rate, usually 3% for the buyer's agent and 3% for the sellers. That's not set in stone however.

Avoid a realtor at all costs. They will NOT do what you're hoping for - protect you from issues after the sale. There only true purpose is to help you find a house. Most of the paperwork for any sale is provided by your mortgage company and the title company. The only legal paperwork that most realtors provide involves the offer letter and up front stuff, and you can get that from most states or draw up your own. If you're worried about that sort of thing, get a lawyer to help - not a realtor.

Realtors are a dying breed, trust me. And they are beginning to realize it. They'll never go completely away, and they have their uses, but 10 years from now the real estate market will be completely different, as will the charges.

You do absolutely without any shadow of any doubt need a good inspector. Ask around to get a GOOD one - there are plenty that aren't. There's where your greatest risk of issue comes in.

Now is certainly a buyer's market. Things to consider as you negotiate - you're in a winter state, and in about 2 months, the current market (which is already dead) will dry up completely til March. The seller knows this. Unless they have someone else out there clamoring for the house, they'll be ready to deal. Don't think they're doing you any favor selling you a house in the current market - it's a buyer's market right now, big time, and you're in the driver's seat. When your inspector comes back with his list of things to correct - and he will, and if he's a good inspector it could be a hundred or more that you'll need to decide on the importance of - be sure to get the ones corrected by the seller that are critical to you.

And welcome to the world of home ownership - the only way to go!

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Originally posted by munkkeyboy:
I've heard they don't even put seats on the toilets [img]eek.gif[/img] [/size][/color][/QB]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah, all my crappers came with seats, then again, now that I think of it, I did get the toilet upgrade so I could get elongated bowls. I bet the standard hoppers don't have seats, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

When we were starting our search for a builder there was one that had "front door" listed as a $700 option!! I asked what the heck they did if I didn't get the option and they said that they leave you a ruffed in opening for a door....so basically, a big hole in the front of the house [img]eek.gif[/img] You'd think at almost $180/ sq ft they'd at least give you a door to shut!! (we didn't go with that builder)

And another thing that had me swinging at the fences (and wishing I'd have paid the money) was brick washing. Like I said, the yard is basically a giant mud pit when the house is being built, so the bricks and pretty much the entire house from the ground to about 6 ft. up is caked with dried mud and filthy. Just before our closing the builder asked if I wanted to get the bricks washed for $250.00 (becuase Lord knows they won't give you a CLEAN house, just a house.) I figured I have a power washer and could do it myself for $10, or whatever the soap wuld cost, so I told the builder to go "f" himself (that was the way we talked to each other by the end of the process, and we were so cordial with each other in the beginning.....) BIG mistake.

By the time I threw in the towel the house had mud on pretty much every square inch of the exterior, including the friggin roof and looked HORRIBLE. I ended up waiting till we got the landscaping in and paid a powerwashing company $300 to clean the mess I made..... [img]confused.gif[/img]

I don't agree about not using a realtor. I do agree that they don't do a ton, especially after the sale, but they can be useful during the process if you get a good one. On our first house, the realtor was essentially useless - we found the home we wanted from a local listing (she didn't point it out to us), and all she did was come with us to look at the place. After the sale, we never heard from her again.

However, on our second house, we moved to a different area and our relator was pretty helpful. He knew the area much better than we did and was able to save us the headache of combing through the listings by ourselves. Granted, we were also selling our first house at the same time and we definitely needed someone else to handle that for us. Overall, our realtor on the second house coordinated things pretty well and he gave us decent advice. And there was actually a problem with the first house we sold a few months AFTER the sale, and it was this same realtor that produced some paperwork that saved our asses (the problem actually stemmed from an oversight by our lawyer!)

So having had both positive and negative experiences with realtors, I wouldn't advise ruling one outif you are a first time buyer. At the very least, they are supposed to guide you through the home buying process and theoretically be able to answer the many questions you will have. I'd give you the same advice I did before - ask around to people you know who have already bought ahome in the area you are looking...that's how we found our second realtor, who came highly recommended by a friend of ours.

As I said, they can be useful, more so to the buyer than the seller. Still, you'll find that by going through a realtor you won't be shown houses that aren't as profitable for them to sell. No matter what they tell you, it isn't their job to get a buyer the PERFECT house - it's to get them to BUY a house, preferably the one that will make them the most commission. As in any business dealing, if you remember that the other parties involved are NOT there looking out for your interests as their top priority but their own, and you understand what those interests are, then you should be okay.

In this particular case - which is what I was talking about - Imbalance is considering bringing in a real estate agent AFTER they've already found a house you like. I would highly advise against that. The value they can serve has already been passed by, and now it's time for a lawyer, inspector, title company and mortgage expert.

Assuming that bringing in a realtor will protect you - that's a big mistake. You'll need to do that, and I've known enough people that were screwed by realtors to know better than to assume it.

One of the most interesting books in recent years is Freakanomics. And they have a great section on real estate and realtors. I recommend the book highly.

I agree with Munkky. This is your first house so you have no idea of what's going on and what to expect, so a realtor can be very helpful and be able to answer a lot of your questions.

I had the same realtor for both my houses, she was my buying and selling agent on my first house and my buying (and the previous owner's selling agent) and selling agent on the second house, and she was incredibly valuable (to the point with the second house she was worried about getting in trouble)

My first house had several offers that were already on the table before I even looked at it, which I never would have known without the realtor. I was able to put in my offer knowing that there were other offers (not knowing how much the other offers were of course) and ended up being the best offer.

The second house was where my realtor thought she might get in trouble. She did the usual realtor thing and gave us a huge stack of listings that were a bit out of the price range that we were looking in, and made that comment that one of the houses in the stack needed to sell, BAD. The owners had a house that they had just built that they were on the verge of losing if they didn't get their house sold. We went looking at the houses with this factoid in our back pockets, and when we looked at the house that we ended up buying all the signs were there that the people wanted to sell....BAD. Bacon had been recently cooked, and an apple pie was cooling on the stove (2 realtor tricks to make the house feel "homey") and the owners had that "please buy this house" look on their face as they sat and watched TV trying not to look too desperate.

As soon as we left the house I said to my wife "this is the house that needs out." I called the realtor back and made an offer $50,000 less then the original asking price and that's when she pooped her pants. I assured her that her comment had nothing to do with my offer (and that I'd sign an affidavit if it came to it) and she made the offer. The previous owners countered (which I knew they would) but their counter was still $40,000 less then their original asking price (and this was a number of years ago when we were in a seller's market). I re-countered the same amount but asked for some of their things (snow blower, lawn mower and a few other miscellanious items that they had in the house....just to be a dick) and they accepted. Had I not had the realtor I don't think I could have made such bold (and dick-headed) offers to these people.....

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Originally posted by macabeee:
This is your first house so you have no idea of what's going on and what to expect...

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I know a heck of a lot more than I did this time yesterday, thanks to you guys.

Our realtor has been instrumental in answering a lot of our questions, and I think at least half of the homes he's shown us weren't even being sold through his agency, so it's not like he would make a dime if we bought one of those, right? He's done everything I feel that a realtor should without hesitation, and since we've come this far with him and we're already comfortable with him, he seems a good choice to act as our closing agent if he is able to act in that capacity on this house. I do know that realtors aren't safety nets for after the sale - it's not like you can just return a house to WalMart - but my perception is that they should at least be a guide through the signing process. The idea of hiring a lawyer is less appealing, but I'm certainly going to look into it as an option.

Our guy is definately in it to sell, like Michael says, but I think less for the sake of profit than for the effect of eliminating just one more of these "handyman specials" from his market. Plan B wouldn't have been a consideration, but it's been for sale for over a year, and now it's clearance priced. We were all but ready to move on it until someone saw this other house with a sign on it. But he just updated us on two more new listings that we will probably investigate anyway, whether our offer goes through with this or not.

Which, by the way, we got no further on that front today because the fellow who arranged our pre-approval was out of the office and nobody else at Wells Fargo could look up anything, apparently. I look at it as an opportunity to spend the long weekend checking out other advertised rates, followed by much horn blowing on Tuesday. Is there any sense in pitching an offer before we are certain we can get the loan? The seller did say that someone else had toured the place, but didn't indicate if any offers had been discussed.

As far as haggling over price goes, this is a bank that's selling it. They don't tend to go for lowballing, but now that I know that an inspector's report can be used as a haggling tool I will by all means employ it. The buyer's market is the reason that Plan B could work out for us, but plan A is so much more to our liking, and must be negotiable for the same reason. To be frank, we were pre-approved for an amount just under $80k, the house (we're told, and this is a bank...) is appraised at $84k, and they are asking just under $70k. We don't yet have an inkling about closing costs or down payments yet (had been hoping to find that out today), but all of this seems reasonable for the building itself with the lot and rental unit in this location, especially if we are able to get credits for any other repair needs that an inspector discovers.

I never really thought about the real estate industry having a dead season, but that makes sense. I did read several news articles about how the house market is flooded and values are plummeting, though. In a way, that makes me happy because of our timing, but at the same time it's a worry for a lot of other reasons. I work in an industry that is a cousin, sort of, and it won't do me much good to buy a house for cheap if I lose my job. But that's depressing bs, let's focus on the positive.

My wife and I had also discussed what we would do with the additional house on the property, whether we would ultimately rent it out or just use it as storage, and how much would need fixed therein. Sparks of imagination flourished and we concluded that it should be our hobby palace. That means...MY TOYS CAN HAVE A HOME!!! But then, reality dictates that things like taxes and insurance will require the supplimental income from renting it out. I haven't taken much time to fancy myself a land lord, so we'll worry about that after we actually own the place.

Thanks again, gang. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

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Our realtor has been instrumental in answering a lot of our questions, and I think at least half of the homes he's shown us weren't even being sold through his agency, so it's not like he would make a dime if we bought one of those, right?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, he get's his half of the realtor fee. Generally the seller's realtor - the person you're thinking of as being 'through their agency' - would get half, and your realtor gets half.

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He's done everything I feel that a realtor should without hesitation, and since we've come this far with him and we're already comfortable with him, he seems a good choice to act as our closing agent if he is able to act in that capacity on this house. I do know that realtors aren't safety nets for after the sale - it's not like you can just return a house to WalMart - but my perception is that they should at least be a guide through the signing process. The idea of hiring a lawyer is less appealing, but I'm certainly going to look into it as an option.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you've been working through this guy (I was under the impression you didn't have a realtor?) then you should finish with him.

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Is there any sense in pitching an offer before we are certain we can get the loan? The seller did say that someone else had toured the place, but didn't indicate if any offers had been discussed.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd advise against it. Once you make the offer, if they accept, you're obligated. Now, you can usually get out of it, but not for free, unless there's something wrong with the house.

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As far as haggling over price goes, this is a bank that's selling it. They don't tend to go for lowballing, but now that I know that an inspector's report can be used as a haggling tool I will by all means employ it.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely. It's not so much a haggling tool as something to say "Yes, we'll buy this house (because we've already made an offer and you've accepted) but I want these things fixed before we'll close". If they won't fix them, you can back out of the deal. Again, I'd only worry about the big ticket items, and if you get a good inspector he'll list even little things like slightly loose sockets and faucet drains that don't quite close right.

I would actually recommend getting a lawyer, as much as it sucks to have to do so. Again, just try to make sure you get someone rebutable. The lawyer's job is essentially to go over all the documentation involved with the sale with a fine-tooth comb, and to explain what everything means. Plus, after everything is signed, they should file it all for you. Of course it's added cost to hire a lawyer, but I don't know many people who can make heads or tails of the literally PILES of paperwork involved in buying a house.

Both times we've bought a house, the lawyers we used caught a number of "questionable" items in the paperwork as well as just small things that needed to be ammended...which to my knowledge is fairly standard in buying a house. Part of their job is to make sure you aren't getting screwed by the various people involved in selilng you the house. On the house we bought a year ago, the seller's realtor had actually "fixed" the paperwork so that she was going to get the entire commision and our realtor was going to get nothing! Our lawyer did, however, overlook something that needed to be on our paperwork for the house WE were selling...but that's a whole other story.

I guess my feeling is that it's safest to have a lawyer working with you for the closing...although I wouldn't advocate trusting them 100%. Like Michael is saying about realtors, these people ARE sometimes only there to get paid. But I just remember there being tons of legal mumbo-jumbo on all the paperwork and not understanding any of it without the lawyer there to explain it.

Yep, lawyer is always a good idea to review the docs, whether or not you have an realtor. Real estate agents aren't lawyers, although they know the basics, but you really need a lawyer to be sure there's nothing off about the paperwork.

buying a house is such a pain in the ass, I've done it twice, but there's nothing like not having to answer to a landlord and being able to do whatever you wish with your own property. In the end its worth it.
Myself, I wouldnt buy without an agent. let them do as much of the hunting and work for you. They might not be great, but they know much more about real estate than I ever will.
wait until you have to sign your name 50 million times at closing! YIKES!

One thing, just be sure to pay a little more money and hire a home inspector. its worth it in the end and you can usually get some of the problems they find fixed by the seller. also a termite inspector is a must. avoid as many problems you might encounter in the future and make sure everything passes code, and if not, they usually have to bring it up to code

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ September 01, 2006 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Chaserfan ]</font>

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Originally posted by munkkeyboy:
And unless you buy a house new, there is almost always going to be some kind of updating to be done

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh believe me, there is far more that needs to be done to a newly built house then one would expect.

Builders don't do ANYTHING free, and certain things (like paying $25 per install for toilet paper holders) are just rediculous to have the builders do.

Then too you get "builder's quality" items on any fixture that you don't specify (and pay for), like lights. Every light in my house that wasn't recessed was one of those little ball shaped, cheap lights. I had to go and get ceiling fans and different lights and change all of those out myself.

And the biggest update that almost always has to be done to a new house is landscaping. Some builders will throw in sod and maybe an Arborvitte or two as "part of the package", but for the most part you get a house sitting on a huge mound of dirt (that becomes a huge mud pit as soon as it rains) and you're left to landscape it however you want, which can get very expensive.

Grant it, most of the updates that need to be done to a new house are purely cosmetic, but they still need to be done to make the house "complete" and add up rather quickly.

WOW! Thanks guys, this is very helpful. This is why this community of toy geeks f'n rawks. We've received bits of advice from friends and family, and among them are volunteers to help us through the process. This is more up-front information than anyone has given us so far, though, and I am very grateful. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

The tour yesterday was mostly for us to take some more pictures. I had questions in mind, but while we were there I forgot most of them. The guy has mentioned that there is a plumbing issue with the rental unit that will be specified in the seller disclosure, which we're supposed to get after we make an official offer.

We had been advised to hire a home inspector, and I think we have a guy lined up for that. Today, my wife has talked to our bank and the lending company that pre-approved us back in June for what we considered our "cap", or the most we would be able to pay back on at this point. Equity is the big reason that finally got me to move, and why I regret that we didn't do this sooner, but our landlords were so nice...and there was so little work to do... I'm lazy, what can I say?

Anyway, on the advice and encouragement of yinzall, I now know there are many more phonecalls and research we'll need to do in the upcoming weeks. I knew that it's not a pleasant or easy-going process, but I think I assumed the bank and the realtor did a lot more of the leg work. The realtor guy that has been showing us around to other houses has been very up front about everything, and he did say something about acting as a buying agent, so I'm going to email him another list of questions. Someone also said something about hiring a closing specialist, so I'm going to look into that more as well.

I think the bank has looked up our credit score, but since I don't know what it is I guess I better do that, too. I've heard that there are ways to consolidate all of my other loans into the mortgage, and the notion of reducing the number of bills that comes in the mail is certainly appealling. Then there's the escrow arrangements a lady at work has that pays her taxes for her, as well as an allowance for home improvements. &lt;sigh&gt; While I'm sweating all this, she's already got us moved in in her head and keeps going on about which bedroom will be ours and the changes she wants to make in the kitchen... I think I'll be happy if we have the keys by November and I haven't suffered a stroke.

Mac, I will probably have some more questions for you. Thanks for leaving your email. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

SW, the thing with the paneling is that we saw it on almost every wall of every house we saw prior to this one. I'm just as tacky as the next guy, except when the next guy is the fellas around here that used paneling like it was drywall. I took pics like I was surveying the joint, but like a dummy I forgot to shoot the main roof. I'll swing by later and see what the lense can see, get 'em posted. Really appreciate the professional eye. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

My internal optimism meter is calibrated low, but I thinks that we may officially join all you other homo-ners in about a month as long as everything goes well. If not, the plan B house can wait until spring before we get very serious about it. It's a big, old, drafty duplex that was converted back to a one-family house. Everything in it except the furnace needs updated. Mostly, I just don't even want to think about the oil bill from heating that through the winter, but it's priced low enought that we could afford to do most of the renovations within a year.

We had wanted to build initially, but the way the laws have changed turned the process into a real nightmare for two of the guys I work with. It was enough to convince me that we had better start with something that already exists before we go breaking ground on a parcel of my parents' farm. We're learning.

Thanks again.

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Originally posted by macabeee:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by munkkeyboy:
And unless you buy a house new, there is almost always going to be some kind of updating to be done

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh believe me, there is far more that needs to be done to a newly built house then one would expect.

Builders don't do ANYTHING free, and certain things (like paying $25 per install for toilet paper holders) are just rediculous to have the builders do.

Then too you get "builder's quality" items on any fixture that you don't specify (and pay for), like lights. Every light in my house that wasn't recessed was one of those little ball shaped, cheap lights. I had to go and get ceiling fans and different lights and change all of those out myself.

And the biggest update that almost always has to be done to a new house is landscaping. Some builders will throw in sod and maybe an Arborvitte or two as "part of the package", but for the most part you get a house sitting on a huge mound of dirt (that becomes a huge mud pit as soon as it rains) and you're left to landscape it however you want, which can get very expensive.

Grant it, most of the updates that need to be done to a new house are purely cosmetic, but they still need to be done to make the house "complete" and add up rather quickly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">By "new", I meant a finished house in the 1-5 years old range that's maybe already been lived in...not so much houses that were just built or are being built. That's a WHOLE other headache...I've heard they don't even put seats on the toilets [img]eek.gif[/img]

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ September 01, 2006 12:57 PM: Message edited by: munkkeyboy ]</font>

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Originally posted by Imbalance:

As far as haggling over price goes, this is a bank that's selling it. They don't tend to go for lowballing, but now that I know that an inspector's report can be used as a haggling tool I will by all means employ it. The buyer's market is the reason that Plan B could work out for us, but plan A is so much more to our liking, and must be negotiable for the same reason. To be frank, we were pre-approved for an amount just under $80k, the house (we're told, and this is a bank...) is appraised at $84k, and they are asking just under $70k. We don't yet have an inkling about closing costs or down payments yet (had been hoping to find that out today), but all of this seems reasonable for the building itself with the lot and rental unit in this location, especially if we are able to get credits for any other repair needs that an inspector discovers.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Holy crap Nostromo, DO NOT JUST TAKE WHAT THEY'RE ASKING!!!!!!!!!!!

Whether the seller is a bank or an individual makes no difference.....actually, I'd low ball a bank even more then an individual. The bank wants to get rid of this place just as much, if not more then an individual wants to sell their house and will probably negotiate, and the worst that they can do is come back refusing your offer, at which point you can make another, slightly higher offer.

If they're asking 70K and the house appraised at 84K I'd offer 60K (with the expectation that they'll come back around 64K)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Imbalance:
The guy has mentioned that there is a plumbing issue with the rental unit that will be specified in the seller disclosure, which we're supposed to get after we make an official offer.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know about you guys in the states but here in Qu?bec if you get an agent he or she can see what's in the seller disclosure before you make an offer.

For example, one of the house we had in our list to visit had a seller disclosure and when she looked at it it was about the fact that someone had commited suicide in the garage...we didn't lose our time visiting the place.

To much text for my little head... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But congrat on the house! I bought a condo 3 years ago and I really like it, but I need to buy a house in the next 2 years...

Ok, so I've got quite a few contacts now and the ball is really rolling. We're going through some budget scenarios and settling down with who we're getting the money from and what our starting bid will be. I was thinking and had been advised by several others besides Mac that $60k may be a good starting bid. We'll be making that call tomorrow, I think. There's another house that we're going to look at in the meantime, just in case. &lt;sigh&gt; I need beer.

keep it rolling and thumbs up [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] ya! congrats!

Probably going to be going through this next year (again).

Wasn't fun the first time around, we almost got there but stopped since we now planning on relocating, which wouldn't make sense [img]wink.gif[/img]

neither time we bought and sold was easy. nature of the beast

By some miracle I was able to sleep last night despite the knowledge that someone, somewhere was deliberating over my initial offer. Mac, I lowballed 'em. $60k up front...nervous as hell over the phone I spit the number out and then stuttered something to the effect of "I'm told there's some back and forth on this," to which his reply was a little chuckle and then he said he would talk to his people. I thought he was the people, the bank's rep, but apparently the offer has to go through some committee for approval.

Then, I get home last night and my wife is talking to the land lords. I step in to see what's up, because we talked about when we would let them know that we would be moving, but figured it might be appropriate to give them advanced head's up that we may be buying a house. It was a positive conversation. They said they had expected it and praised us as good tenants, offered some advice of their own, wished us luck, and we left it at "we'll keep you posted on our progress." This morning, there's an "APARTMENT FOR RENT" sign out front. Ooooookaay. I hope they don't plan on touring our pad anytime soon... [img]redface.gif[/img] And we haven't even started packing yet...

God, I hope all this is worth it in the end.

It will definitly be worth it in the end!

And really, you didn't low-ball them that bad. When I suggested offering $60K I was being conservative, that's a VERY reasonable offer, and their eventual counter of $64K - which if it's any higher then $64K keep the back and forth going - is completly fair, and only $6K, or less then 10% less then their asking price. If the appraisal came back $84, then the 2 times the SEV (State Equalized Value - 1/2 of what the state thinks your house is worth and bases your taxes on) should be somewhere around $65K - $68K.

Had this been a house that I was bidding on at this point in my life I'd have gone to them with an offer of about $50K.....now THAT'S low balling!

And think of it this way. Assuming you get the house for $64K, you've built $20K in equity the minute after you sign the last paper.

Rejected...no counter...and they were supposedly showing the house to someone else today. I'm not done yet, dammit! My thoughts are to wait until next week or until we get some other things lined up, and then throw out a higher number if it's still available. Otherwise, I don't think plan B has moved an inch, and this other place we're going to see could become plan C. Even the rejection came as something of a relief, but I'm still going nuts here. I owe you guys for all this help. [img]redface.gif[/img]

SW, at long last here are pics of the roof(s):

From the back, best shot I could get of the roof over the laundry:
http://www.thepicplace.com/images/Im...e/imga2616.jpg

Northish facing eave:
http://www.thepicplace.com/images/Im...e/imga2615.jpg

Southish facing eave:
http://www.thepicplace.com/images/Im...e/imga2614.jpg

Front porch:
http://www.thepicplace.com/images/Im...e/imga2613.jpg

Still absorbing advice, learned more about the house (all good), and found out the apartment for rent isn't ours - one of the other tenants is moving out. That's one little load off my mind.

Mac, you gotcha some mail.

Damn! My companies content filter is blocking the house pictures...says the picplace site is pornography.

Nos, I'm replying to your email now, but I really want to see what the house looks like too, I guess I'll have to wait to get home tonight for that.....

The one big thing I want to say is "CALM DOWN!! and tell the wife to chill too!" There is ALWAYS another interested party....ALWAYS.

OK, lemme get back to your email.......

Porn? Maybe your filters got offended by my fake vanity tag in the last shot. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Got it. Thanks!

Lots more to think about... [img]eek.gif[/img]

Nos

I just sent you another email! This bank dude is trying to bullshit a bullshitter and I almost didn't see it!!

That sunuvabitch!!!!

Replied.

You may be right, but give that a read before I go tell him to eat worms!

OK, I just sent you a reply to your email....sorry it took so long, but it was more then 3 pages.

I hope it came out at least mostly cohesive and understandable.....

congrats!!! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]