Idea for next Felicity story...

Felicity is at her grandfather's plantation(he's still alive), riding through the fields on her horse by herself, when she stops to talk to a slave girl in the fields who is her age. The overseer yells at the slave and tells her to get back to work. She wants to become her friend, but her grandfather tells her she is forbidden to speak to or have any contact with any slaves. When she sneaks to the slave cabin one night, she finds out exactly what slavery is and why it is wrong, even though every non slave around her thinks it is right.

Well, what do you all think?

AWSOME! I love that idea! That would be really great. What kind of slave? An indentured servant from Eurpope, or Africa, or a Native American girl?

An African slave, like Addy, except maybe instead of being a slave all her life, she was captured in Africa with her family and sold to the plantation.

That would be a GREAT story! Are you going to write it?

It made me sad when I realized that Felicity would be the (only) American girl whose family (Grandfather) would have had slaves. I think Felicity befriending a slave girl would be a great story! In the books, Felicity's father paid Marcus, a free black man, to work in his store, and Rose was always referred to as a servant, not slave, implying she was paid as well.

Once I e-mailed American girl about wanting a 1960s doll and they wrote back and said that they can't take ideas for stories or characters because they fear the creator could go back to them later on and make up some lawsuit for stealing their idea. I wish I could submit the idea. Of course I could always just write the story myself in a journal or something and imagine it happened to Felicity.

That's not entirely true, Dancer. Kaya's tribe would have had slaves. Native American tribes, especially the Plains tribes, were constantly enslaving each other and captives became slaves for the brave who had captured them, and they could be bought and sold among other tribe members. That's how Sacajawea ended up marrying the French trader, she was sold to him by the man who had captured her.

For once, I would like to see an average plantation owner depicted in children's literature. VERY FEW slaveholders were as cruel as history would have us believe. Slaves were an investment, a MAJOR investment. Most plantation owners saw their slaves in that light. You don't beat and starve and ignore a major investment. Yes, it's a sad mindset to have, but that's the way most of them thought. Owning slaves was a BIG financial commitment. The master was responsible for food, clothing, shelter, shoes, medical care, repairs, maintenance, and anything else that came along. And this was for LIFE. On sugar plantations, the costs went up even more come sugar-making time, from all of the things that the master would give to them to get them through the long process and round-the-clock work. Most slaves were allowed to grow vegetables, and then they had the option of selling the vegetables to the kitchen, or they could take them into town on Sundays and sell them. Anything they made on their own time could be sold and they got to keep every penny of the money.

For example, the plantation where I work, we have no records or stories WHATSOEVER of any slaves enduring abuse of any kind. All 80 of the builder's slaves marched in his funeral procession, which they were not required to do. And then after the Civil War ALL 120 field hands that the second owner had, opted to sign a work agreement and REMAIN on the plantation. Most of them then stayed on the plantation for the rest of their lives, or until it was divided up in 1908- whichever came first.

And then on the other hand, one parish over is where "Twelve Years a Slave- the Story of Solomon Northup" took place, and his life was a living hell. Treatment of the slaves varied greatly from plantation to plantation. The kind, somewhat benevolent masters far outweighed the bad apples.

This issue is the reason that I do NOT like Meet Addy. It paints a rather unrealistic, somewhat exaggerated portrayal of slavery at that time in Virginia. They made it a lot more grim than it actually was on most plantations. I've never connected with her character in any way because of the way her story opens. I've read all of her books, but don't remember anything about them because of my first impression in Meet Addy.

I realize that slavery was a very dark time in American history and I am in no way trying to justify it. As a student of history, I simply want the people around me to see BOTH sides of the story, the good and the bad, the nice and the cruel. I'm a born and bred Southern girl, and I don't like it one bit when my history is portrayed incorrectly or when all Southerner slave owners are made out to be cruel. Please look at both sides of the issue before anyone makes a sweeping judgement about an issue as complex as slavery.

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Originally posted by Grapedy1982:
That's not entirely true, Dancer. Kaya's tribe would have had slaves. Native American tribes, especially the Plains tribes, were constantly enslaving each other and captives became slaves for the brave who had captured them, and they could be bought and sold among other tribe members. That's how Sacajawea ended up marrying the French trader, she was sold to him by the man who had captured her.

For once, I would like to see an average plantation owner depicted in children's literature. VERY FEW slaveholders were as cruel as history would have us believe. Slaves were an investment, a MAJOR investment. Most plantation owners saw their slaves in that light. You don't beat and starve and ignore a major investment. Yes, it's a sad mindset to have, but that's the way most of them thought. Owning slaves was a BIG financial commitment. The master was responsible for food, clothing, shelter, shoes, medical care, repairs, maintenance, and anything else that came along. And this was for LIFE. On sugar plantations, the costs went up even more come sugar-making time, from all of the things that the master would give to them to get them through the long process and round-the-clock work. Most slaves were allowed to grow vegetables, and then they had the option of selling the vegetables to the kitchen, or they could take them into town on Sundays and sell them. Anything they made on their own time could be sold and they got to keep every penny of the money.

For example, the plantation where I work, we have no records or stories WHATSOEVER of any slaves enduring abuse of any kind. All 80 of the builder's slaves marched in his funeral procession, which they were not required to do. And then after the Civil War ALL 120 field hands that the second owner had, opted to sign a work agreement and REMAIN on the plantation. Most of them then stayed on the plantation for the rest of their lives, or until it was divided up in 1908- whichever came first.

And then on the other hand, one parish over is where "Twelve Years a Slave- the Story of Solomon Northup" took place, and his life was a living hell. Treatment of the slaves varied greatly from plantation to plantation. The kind, somewhat benevolent masters far outweighed the bad apples.

This issue is the reason that I do NOT like Meet Addy. It paints a rather unrealistic, somewhat exaggerated portrayal of slavery at that time in Virginia. They made it a lot more grim than it actually was on most plantations. I've never connected with her character in any way because of the way her story opens. I've read all of her books, but don't remember anything about them because of my first impression in Meet Addy.

I realize that slavery was a very dark time in American history and I am in no way trying to justify it. As a student of history, I simply want the people around me to see BOTH sides of the story, the good and the bad, the nice and the cruel. I'm a born and bred Southern girl, and I don't like it one bit when my history is portrayed incorrectly or when all Southerner slave owners are made out to be cruel. Please look at both sides of the issue before anyone makes a sweeping judgement about an issue as complex as slavery.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A lot of children's and young adult historical novels with white Southern children or teens as main characters are like this. I've read quite a few like this, usually with a wealthy southern girl/teen as the main character, whose family's slaves are not abused... I can't think of any particular ones right now, maybe some of the Ann Rinaldi ones, I know she has a few like this, and one of the Dear America books...

That's true Grapedy 1982!
Also the Native were used as slaves in the early colonial period. But the colonials found that it was too difficult because they weren't imune to the European diseases and died quickly in captivity. Also when one ran away they were hard to find because they could blend in. Sadly the Africans were the most practical, the terrible transformation, as the historiy books call it, when the colonies began the participating in the slave trade. Because a large part Africa was colonized by Europeans, they were already imune to diseases like milaria and such so they were able to live much longer in the New World. It's a sad thing when humans become property, but that was how it happened.

Total subject change here, lol. Malaria actually comes from Africa. It was exported to other parts of the world because of the slave trade. It's mosquito borne and the mosquitoes traveled to continental Europe, and the Americas via the slave ships. Same thing happened with yellow fever. Yellow fever was a white man's disease until it was eradicated from the continent in 1905. (I spent two months researching yellow fever last summer for work. Had all of the North American epidemics memorized at one point, lol)

Your point about Native Americans being used as slaves is another one that a lot of historians tend to forget. That was very prevelant during the time Spain owned the Louisiana territory in the latter half of the 18th century. Black and Native American marriages were VERY common in Louisiana at the time of the Purchase in 1803. The slaves would develop friendships with the Indians living in the area, and often times runaways would hide out in the villages for weeks, sometimes even months at a time.

And all of this racial intermingling made Louisiana cuisine the wonderful stuff it is today!

I'm sorry if I offended anyone [img]frown.gif[/img] I've pretty much learned most of my American history through American Girl. During my junior and senior years of high school when I was supposed to be taking American history, my dad had just died so I got out of it.

I had a vague idea about the Civil war and slavery but it was American Girl that really got me interested in it. Sometimes I feel like Samantha when she can't figure out if women's sufferage is right, or Felicity when she can't figure out if it is right to be disloyal to the king. I will have to take some history classes when I go back to college in the fall.

I guess I like to be creative sometimes but I would never do anything to deliberately offend anyone. [img]frown.gif[/img]

Katie,

I don't think anyone was too offended. It was a very creative idea. You go on and write that story if you want. Nobody's creative vision should be crushed.
I'm from Southern backgorund so I totally agree with what everyone was saying, but I wasn't offended.
Don't worry about not learning about slavery in history class. I went to school to high school and michigan and we were just told that all slavery was bad. It wasn't until much later when I read numorous civil war books that I saw other views and sides to it. Plus the war was fought for other reasons than just slavery.

Two words: Fan Fiction

Run with your idea and there's plenty of fan fic sites on the 'net that may take your story. I'm a fan fic writer/junkie myself...what's better then watching or reading one of your favorite books/shows/movies? Writing it! (To me, at least [img]wink.gif[/img] )

I'm not offended in the least, Katie! Your situation and Ashley's too, is quite common- outside the South. The Civil War and all of the issues surrounding it still very much affect the way we Southerners think and view the rest of the world. There's still a lot of bitterness over things that happened during the war and during Reconstruction, and it's even harder to let go of when the rest of the country refuses to even acknowledge that all of that stuff happened.

I find it very sad that unless you live in the South and are surrounded by the battle sites and the graves, you get a very one-dimensional picture of what was really going on. The subdivision I live in has a Civil War era wagon trail in the middle of it. The spot where my house is had Confederate soldiers marching over it and probably making camp down by the creek behind my house. The plantation where I work is one of 3 surviving plantations out of 123! Sherman burned all the rest to the ground in 1864. He burned the town where I live to the ground. The only thing left was the shell of the Catholic church by the levee. Tourists always complain about the lack of historical sites in our area, and very few of them believe me when I tell them it's pretty much the fault of the Union Army.

I do admire Pleasant Company for tackling the Civil War with Addy's character, it was a great idea. Just as a Southerner, I was very very disappointed with the way the idea was executed, and the one-dimensional viewpoint of everything. It's very true that the winners write the history books, especially when like me, you think the losing side was right but just took the wrong path to do it.

I've heard of Ann Rinaldi, Rebecca, but haven't actually read any of hers. Here in the South, that's the way we see it, that's what our surviving records and stories say happened. It's very hard to let go of what the Union army and the federal government did. People always complain about how unrealistic the Reconstruction parts of Gone With the Wind are. It's actually the most accurate portrayal of conditions from that time period ever to be put on film. The South's history and traditions and the things we hold dear literally went up in smoke during the war.

Unless you grow up in the middle of where the War happened, you don't really learn that much about it. That to me is the saddest part of all.

Ann Rinaldi's books are interesting... she manages to write from many different viewpoints realistically... she has books on the Civil War with both Northern and Southern characters... In My Father's House and The Last Silk Dress were from a Southern POV, I think Girl in Blue, and Amelia's War were Northern, and she may have had some others as well. She has also written several with slaves as main characters. I think one was well treated... and one was not... and there may have been a third I never read. The first one was set in early 1800s and the 2nd in the Civil War era. She's also written a lot of books about the colonial era and the American Revolution, and a few stories set on the frontier. She is one of my favorite authors. You might also like the Dear America book When Will This Cruel War Be Over. It is about the hardships of a once wealthy Southern girl during the Civil War. it is written as a diary.

It's rather interesting really, when it comes to kids/teen historical fiction. If the main character is a white southerner, 90% of the time if there are slaves they are treated well. And if the main character is a slave, 90% of time slaves are horribly abused.

I like Katie's idea but I can also understand other points of view that have been expressed. I haven't read Addy's first book yet because I don't have it, but I've read two other books in her series. I really do like Addy, but feel like I'm missing so much since I haven't read the first book yet.

On the subject of slavery, I'm sure most slaves weren't physically abused. I've heard tour guides in New Oleans tell me that Irish immigrants were actually treated worse than most slaves because there was no long term commitment to them.

However, Felicity could still have questions about the morality of slavery in regard to ownership of people. Even if the slaves were treated well, the fact still remains that their rights were very limited. They couldn't legally be married to each other and that's why some slave families were separated and sold to other plantations. They weren't allowed to attend school. Even after they were freed, I'm sure many slaves chose to remain at their plantations because there really weren't that many good options for them. Obviously, the subject of slavery was a touchy one even back then, so it would make sense that Felicity might have a lot of questions about it.

Anyway, I hope I'm not offending anyone either. I've been to Louisiana many times on vacation and love it down there. The Garden District of New Orleans is beautiful. It's rich with history, and there's no doubt they serve the best food you can find.

I am highly offended by this thread & that anyone can possibly suggest that slavery is anything but WRONG, is sad.
Please don't believe otherwise. Owning other humans & forcing them to work for you "day & night" is not good or anything but BAD.

Look at the reality for newly freed African-Americans in the deep south:
1. you & your entire family (if you're lucky) are free, but you do not own the land on which you have worked all your life.
2. you do not own the home that you have lived in all your life.
3. slavery has been used as the basis for the civial war & you are now in a war-torn part of the south, where many non-slave owning whites have lost much & are seeing ex-slaves as the root of their sorrows.
4. where do you go?
5. your former master still needs workers, still owns the house where you live, still owns the land that you have worked, & offers to let you continue living there in exchange for working for him.
6. do you somehow try to return to Africa, you weren't born there, you don't know the language, you have nothing there either!

BUT NOW YOU ARE FREE - if you choose you can go, if you finish your work, you can go to the village on any day, not just Sunday! you can take a vacation, a day off, without fear of being hunted down, you won't be sold away from your family, alas, even with freedom, former slaves where still not treated like equals.

I am a born & bred white southerner, born in Mississippi & grew-up in NC, but I believe that all humans are created equally & have the right to be free. And yes, there are many underlying issues that caused the civil war, but the greatest thing that resulted was that slavery was abolished.

There is a lot more that I'd like to bring across, because I fear that some young girl will read this thread & somehow come away with the idea that slavery was not all bad, but that is wrong. Owning other people IS WRONG & no matter how good you treat slaves they are still property & not free humans!
We as women, should be the first to understand this, we have also been treated like less than equal & have had to fight for rights - & still in other countries, women can't own land, can't vote, can't marry whom they choose & are treated unfairly, unjustly & cruelly. Even in this country, women are fighting for equal pay, equal postions in governmant & corporations (think about it, has there ever been a female president or an African-Amerian one - people would rather redo the constatution to allow for Arnold Scwartzenagger to be able to run for pres, than to elect a woman). Not all women believed that women even needed the right to vote, does that mean that not having the right was not WRONG! No, it doesn't! We don't have to vote, but we are free to if we choose.

OK, not to be ugly here. I agree that slaves were often treated well because they were in investment. But the underlying principle should not be lost. They were treated well because they were deemed subhuman, a piece of property. Sort of the way, we would view a luxury car. Not a person. So not to demean anyone, I think they main idea to get across to young people is that slavery is WRONG. Regardless of how well they may be treated. Owning people is a barbaric custom. Also one of the main reasons, the slaves stayed on the plantation after the civil war is because they knew no other life. It was a comfortable life and they knew they could survive. So I don't want to insult anyone but I do think the message has to be loud and clear. Regardless of how well you may treat your property, people are not property. And that behavior is completely and totally unacceptable for this day and time.

Unfortunately I am out the door to school and I can't do this justice at this point. This thread will be edited .... there are two sides to every story, but no matter how you look at it owning someone in today's world in unacceptable. Yes, it happened and is part of our history, and I am sure that some masters treated their slaves differently than others. This argument is getting too heated and too personal. I am locking this thread for now and will do a better closure later. Thanks.

Bonnie

I love Ann Rinaldi =) Time Enough for Drums is my most favorite book in the whole world!

Anyways...

HERE IS AN EXCELLENT MOVIE TO WATCH!!!!!! (If you can find it, I happen to own it on video)

It's called "TRUE WOMEN". It was a made for TV movie with Dana Delaney, Angelina Jolie, Annabeth Gish and others in it.

Maybe you can rent in thru inter-library loan.

It takes place in the south (both GA and TX) from the 1830's to 1870's. Shows treatment of Native Americans - very different on each side of the Mississippi! And different views on slaves, and slaves actually chosing to remain with their masters because they were treated well and have no place to go once freed (remember how many didn't truly enjoy freedom for another 100 years!)

Anyways, I know you will all love it! Go get it =) Has all that fun Texas-Mexican drama too.

I promised a better resolution on this post when I came back so here it is. First, my apologies for locking the thread so quickly and then leaving. I was grabbing a couple of minutes on the computer before taking my girls to school and doing some volunteer jobs - I decided to read my PMs and found several there about this thread. After reading them, I felt I had to do something and couldn't ignore the issue as it stood, but I lacked the time to do it right. I am sorry.

First, I would like to say that the original post by Katie on this thread was a good possible idea for a Felicity book - it was addressing an issue that was very real at the time. I think it would be a good story to explore a bit more about her Grandfather's plantation.

The problem as you can see from the posts that follow is that slavery is a very passionate topic. I think we all agree in today's world, that owning people for any reason is unacceptable. But in the United States at one period in our history (and in other places at other times in history), it was how things were done. We cannot rewrite history and we should not ignore it, but we can learn from it.

That being said, I truly believe there are multiple sides to the slavery stories. There were good owners, bad owners, slaves who were treated well and those who went through unspeakable things. I don't think anyone can make any statements that cover all cases, only a subset. Not much different than most things in life if you think about it.

I really don't want to shut down this thread because history, good and bad, is fascinating and interesting. I feel that the posters all agree on slavery not being acceptable today, but differ on their views of the past. I also think a good debate with facts to support it is just that, a good debate. But I feel this thread is taking on a personal nature for many of those involved (and that feeling is supported by the volume in my PM box) and I think it is in the best interest of our community to end this public debate. This is not the place for this discussion to continue.

Thanks.

Bonnie