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I hoped AG would bring out a new historical doll in a couple of years--and I was really hoping for a 1950s girl. But I agree with you, with the emphasis on friend dolls, we may not see a new historical doll for quite awhile. I can understand why AG would do this; it's a great way to maximize what they already have. Still, it's disappointing.
I understand what you mean, and I agree, but I wonder if they've sort of run out of time periods. There's not much difference in 1944 and 1954 - except for WWII and Korea - for example. So I wonder if that's the problem they're hitting. If you go back farther, girls in 1744 weren't American - they were British (yes, I know Felicity was as well, but she was there at our beginning) - and there's a good chance they weren't born here either. They might consider 1974 too recent, even though to kids now it's unimaginable - and Vietnam is a very touchy subject and may be too fresh in the country's minds to touch right now.
Kimberly, with respect I have to disagree with you about there not being much difference between 1944 and 1954 (Korea was over by then, btw). The whole feel of the 1950s is extremely different from that of the WWII years, just as 1944 is very different from 1934. The challenges we faced and the way people dealt with them made the period unique, plus the popular culture, fashions, etc. had so much fun and energy to them. I still hold out hope for a 1950s girl some day.
Mollymom: I think you may be right about the Vietnam era being to fresh in our minds, but really, that's only because we experienced them ourselves, (at least speaking for myself, I "was" the perfect target age during that time! But, really, I don't quite know how to explain this. If they use this as an excuse, they couldn't have written Addy's book 30 years after she'd grown up, or Kit's dealing with the hardship of the depression, or Molly's with WWII, Josefina with the beginnings of the Americans coming for trading, etc. I think it would be great if they did a 60's type book. It doesn't have to be written for adults, and be graphic, it could still be written through the eyes of a child. I was born in '60. I could describe a few things from that era:
My father's family was large Irish Catholic. This may sound blasphemous, (sp?) but I honestly can't say when I realized there was a difference between John F Kennedy (first Catholic President) and Jesus, because their pictures hung side by side on the wall of my grandparents and most relative's houses!
Women's rights issues: When I was 3 my parents divorced and my mom was a young working mother of 3 kids, no real daycare at that time, but other family members and neighbors (remember neighbors?) pitching in to help where they could. Neighborhoods were a different kind of thing back then. You went OUTSIDE to play, *with other kids* (because we weren't all being ferried back and forth to activities back then) and you didn't come home till the street lights came on.
Civil Rights: I remember watching Martin Luther King speeches on tv, and I remember also the sad day when I came home from school for lunch (does that even happen anymore?) and saw his funeral on tv. Also that of Robert Kennedy. I was only 8 then, but I was aware that these were great men of our times. Another example of how I personally think we sometimes *overprotect* our children and shield them from maybe too much of society's realities.
Vietnam War: The first real tv-style war played out every night, in my case, on a black and white tv. Diana only now thinks the tv is broken if its black and white! [img]wink.gif[/img] I can recall listening to the draft numbers being shown and hoping that my oldest brother's number didn't come up. Instead of yellow car stickers, we still had the stars in the windows back then. And sadly, very sadly, those boys and young men were not welcomed back home so very warmly back then.
Music: Some of the music of the 60's are still my favorites today. The increased popularity of rock and roll and the changes that it went through, folk music, anti-war music, remember "W-A-R, what is it good for?" (don't remember who sang that one). But also Tommy James and the Shondells "Dizzy" that was a great roller-rink song! And the British invasion, the Beatles and the Stones and Herman's Hermits, Davey Jones, (swoon over Davey Jones). I didn't get much tv as a kid (sometimes we didn't have one) but I remember Bewitched and The Brady Bunch.
Fashion: mini skirts, maxi coats and Twiggy!
I guess what I'm saying is that I grew up in a turbulent time of the 60's and 70's, but from a child's point of view, I was aware to some point of the strife going on, but I was still just a kid, dealing with kid things too and the stories could be told from that point of view.
That's the end of my novel for today, gotta go to work and pay down the code!
Laurie
<font color="#051E50"><font size="1">[ March 05, 2005 08:01 AM: Message edited by: dianasmama ]</font></font>
editing: Dizzy was Tommy Roe, Crimson and Clover was Tommy James, but both were great at the Roller Derby under the flashing disco ball and the lights turned out! They might have even been early 70's, late 60's and early 70's are blending in my kid mind.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ March 05, 2005 08:06 AM: Message edited by: dianasmama ]</font>
I was hoping for a 1974 doll..I know Vietnam is a very touchy subject to some people, but then again, so are some other subjects the AG dolls have had to face.
Sarah
I ahve to agree, there were a few othe time periods I would like to see added, one being the 50s or the 60s.
Would also like to see some focus on the early American periods.
There is a HUGE gap between the Felicity's Declaration of Independence in 1774 and the Southwestern expantion in 1824 that Josephine was part of.
WHat about the Louisiana Purchase? I could see a story on the mixing of cultures in the Delta, mixing French, Spanish, Native cultures and suddenly becoming Americans.
There is also the conflicts with the creation of the Consitiution. The first draft wasn't the one we have today.
Or what about the fall out fo the War of 1812? 1814, would be a good time to look at the burning and rebuilding of our capital into the capital that it is today, as well as the start of the building of a truly federal nation.
Or what about a story about the Transcontinental Railroad, perhaps focusing on the Asian Immigrants who settled in the West and were slowly drawn into the interior as workers. Another important time and portion of the population which needs to be acknowledged in our history.
So... yes... I guess I am a little disappointed by the friends additions. Happy to ahve more doll options... and beig of Scotch-Irish decent, can really relate to Nellie on a personal level... but wishing they would expand to other time periods and stories. We are a diverse population, with a complex history, I'd like to see them all covered.
I have to say I personally like the friend dolls, so I don't wish they would make new historicals *instead,* but I do hope they alternate so we can get more of both! [img]smile.gif[/img] Sounds like Elizabeth is coming out this year, so maybe next year there will be an entirely new historical.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with Ann. I like the friend dolls but would also like to see some new historicals--especially an Asian historical doll! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by Ann, Samantha fan:
I have to say I personally like the friend dolls, so I don't wish they would make new historicals *instead,* but I do hope they alternate so we can get more of both! [img]smile.gif[/img] Sounds like Elizabeth is coming out this year, so maybe next year there will be an entirely new historical.
I wish they wouldn't come out with a new doll *every* year though. I am feeling a little overwhelmed! It would be nice if they only did a new doll every 2-3 years and they alternated between new historical, friend doll, and Limited Edition AGOT. Just my opinion! [img]wink.gif[/img]
I like the idea of the friends dolls as long as AG
can develop an interesting story about the friend.
I really wish they were making completely new historical characters instead of the friend dolls. I realize the friend dolls are obviously a lot cheaper to make, but one of my favorite things is the books, and I'd love to have a new set of stories to read... and see a new doll with a complete set of outfits... does anyone else feel this way? I wonder when they will ever come out with a new historical. If there's a movie a year from now on, and new friend dolls for each, where will it fit in?
I too really like the "friends" dolls. I think it's a great idea. We've discussed on the board how we don't like to mix our historical collections. But to me that seems the dolls can't mix either. So they're lonely. By getting two dolls from the same era, the dolls can share clothes, history and a story.
We have just one daughter. After I bought her Samantha, I saw how dd didn't have anyone to play with so the doll just sat. A couple months later I bought her Kirsten and then dd played with the dolls a lot because the dolls could do things and talk together.
It would have been fabulous if Nellie was made back then. Then Samantha's stories would really come alive because the two dolls would share the same story. And they could share clothes also which would have been good for super tight budgets like mine.
Julia
Molly is from 1944 and was one of the first introduced in 1986, 42 years later. So to those grandmas and mothers then, 1944 might have been prevalent in their minds too.
If they wanted to do 1964, according to the above time span, they could do it now. 1974 could be released in another 11 years. I think it doesn't have anything to do with if it's current in the mom's or grandma's eyes, but because of the turbulent nature of those eras. Probably more so than some of the other time periods. Remembering WWII was considered an honorable war, and obviously much less so with the Vietnam War, which would have to be covered in either a 60's or 70's doll. I'd still like to see it though.
But, I'd really like the next historical doll to be Asian in some way, probably the most interesting would be the Chinese immigrants and the railroad stories.
I think because of the movie industry and that we know Felicity's is next, then Kit's, that's who we'll see for at least these next two years. Then I hope they take a break from the friend's dolls stories and make a new historical. I'm not even sure I want them to make friends for all the dolls, except maybe for Molly, but she has her 2 best friends plus Emily.
Laurie
I like the friends dolls, but I do miss the excitement surrounding a new full-fledged historical.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pardon me for getting excited as a girl from Louisiana, but YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is one of the most overlooked and most important periods of American history. There was SO MUCH going on down here in those years. And all of it has affected how our country was formed, and the French and Spanish colonial way of government is STILL how Louisiana is run. Louisiana has a Napoleonic French system of government. In some ways we're more French than France and more Spanish than Spain.Quote:
WHat about the Louisiana Purchase? I could see a story on the mixing of cultures in the Delta, mixing French, Spanish, Native cultures and suddenly becoming Americans.
Louisiana has a fascinating colonial history. You had the French coming in and carving out the territory, then the Spanish came in and put their mark on everything, then you have the Caribbean influences from the first generation of slaves, then the Native American, THEN all 4 of those intermarrying with each other to create the unique and distinctive Creole culture. (Which is VERY different from Cajun) Then the Americans come in and mix things up even more. Just absolutely fascinating how the cultures intermingled and melted together to form Louisana's very unique historical and cultural identity.
Then you had the religious conflicts between the predominantly Catholic French and Spanish, and the Episcopalian Americans moving in in vast numbers. That's why Louisiana has parishes instead of counties. We're divided up along Catholic church parish lines. That's why parishes here are such funny shapes instead of being square like counties in Texas or Arkansas. We're divided along waterways, which was the easiest way to travel prior to 1845.
I say to American Girl: Give me a Creole girl!!! Make her French and Spanish and give them American neighbors to interact with where she must learn English and a whole new way of everything. Show some of the turmoil of the Creoles as they realize that they everything they know and everything they have built is changing. It's FASCINATING!!!!
I also want another immigrant, a Russian immigrant from the 1880's to be specific, and make her Jewish. Her family fled Russia to escape Alexandrer III's pogroms. (mass extermination of Jews)
A TON of Asians immigrated to San Fransisco in the 1890's. I learned this from playing the Nancy Drew PC game called something like "Secret of the Haunted Mansion". The 1890's would be the *perfect* setting for an Asian American Girl's story.
I think these are all great ideas.
I like Ann's idea the best about alternating releasing friends and new historical dolls every year.
I don't really like the limited edition doll idea very much. It seems to just be spawning this huge secondary market and "forcing" us to consider purchasing each LE quickly. I don't like to be rushed. LOL! [img]wink.gif[/img]
I would love a 50's girl and a 1910's or 1920's girl. I would really have no interest in a 60's or 70's doll. I lived through those periods and really have no desire to relive (or see those clothes! [img]redface.gif[/img] ) again.
Anyone remember the Girlhood Journeys books/dolls? The Irish immigrant one, Shannon, lived in San Francisco in the 1880s I think. Her best friend was a Chinese immigrant girl.
I actually really like the friends dolls too... but I DEFINITELY miss the excitement of a brand new historical doll with a brand new era in history to get into!! I remember when the slowly started releasing clues on the AG site about Kaya- it was so interesting and much fun.
I also like that idea of alternating the release of a new historical and a friend doll- that would certainly keep us on our toes. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Laurie - I agree with you (maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough). I agree that it does have more to do with the turbulent nature of the eras of the 1950's, 1970's. 1940's may have been a familiar time to some mothers and especially grandmothers when the AGs were introduced, but I think the general consensus in the U.S. at that time (and now) was that WWII was fought for a good reason, the U.S. was triumphant, and it was a time when our country came together and worked hard to get through that rough time, as is depicted in Molly's books. There was a general consensus in America at that time that made it easier to write AG stories about that era. The 1950's-1970's were full of extremely divisive issues: Vietnam, Civil Rights, socialism, Cold War, etc. It would be very difficult to write non-controversial stories about this era of societal fragmentation, and it would be difficult to create one girl to adequately represent that era. With that said, I think if AG could figure out how to do it "right," then those would be great time periods to have dolls.
Also, Grapedy, you have some good ideas. America is notoriously a melting pot, and to explore the backgrounds of different groups of people who were either forced from their homeland to come to the U.S. (as in your idea for a Russian Jew) or perhaps those who were simply incorporated into "America" (such as the idea of a Creole girl) are all great ideas. It's only been in recent years that AG has explored more cultural backgrounds and reasons for girls being "American" with Addy and Josefina - with the exception of Kirsten - (I'm not really counting Kaya because she was not yet incorporated into "American" "society"). AG sort of experimented with the idea of branching out to other parts of the world with the idea of the GOML dolls, but they don't need to go to other parts of the world to explore fascinating stories of different cultural, ethnic, etc. backgrounds - the U.S. is built upon so many different groups that there are virtually endless possibilities for the creation of characters who represent a variety of backgrounds and American experiences.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ March 05, 2005 06:43 PM: Message edited by: * amanda ]</font>
oh... and I don't mean to say I hate the friends dolls. Nellie is adorable. But it would be great if they made more historicals instead. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I personally don't have Nellie (or her collection...just Lydia and Jip because when I was 8 that's all I wanted AG to come up w/) but I think she is a great idea. We have my little journal from 3rd and 4th grade and on several days it mentions "I wish that PC would make a Nellie doll so Samantha could have a friend". So from a little girls' mind (which is really what the dolls were created to enhance) Nellie is very special.
Personally, I like the idea of alternating friend dolls, new historicals and the AGOT LE's. That would give us a big variety of doll experince! I like the LE's so far, but I hope that they continue to explore other ethinic backgrounds and cultures that are living in the US today, as they have with Marisol.
My only concern with more historicals is one of the eight girls they already have (not counting Nellie and Elizabeth, because they are friends) being bumped to the back burner. I think Kaya and Kirsten both have the possibly of this happening if Felicity does make a come back when the movie and Elizabeth doll come out. And frankly, I want all of Kaya and Kirsten's collections because those are a time period I loved as a child (the "Little House.." era) and I am 1/4 Native American, so that's important to me as well.
I love Nellie and I hope to get the Nellie/Samantha friend set in the next month or two when my ferrets are sold. (Not selling them to get the dolls, I'm selling them because they give me a skin allergy. But if I'm going to sell them, I might as well get something very precious out of it, in their memory) Hopefully before Elizabeth comes out! After I see her I'll know whether I like the friends line or not. Judging by just Nellie I do. And it's a cool idea, imo, to show the important of friendship. Not to mention, as one person said, those of us who are time period purists have a second doll of the era so our girls won't be lonely. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm with Georgia on this. I hope they do introduce a brand new historical doll some time soon.Quote:
I actually really like the friends dolls too... but I DEFINITELY miss the excitement of a brand new historical doll with a brand new era in history to get into!! I remember when the slowly started releasing clues on the AG site about Kaya- it was so interesting and much fun.
Nia [img]smile.gif[/img]
I'd like to see a new historical released soon. We were not even aware of AG when Kaya was released! But I hope the next historical is definitely NOT a 1974 girl. I am too young to have an historical doll born in the same year as me! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
I like being exactly 200 years younger than Felicity, though! [img]wink.gif[/img]
I want a new historical! I still have to read Kaya's books though, I've only read her first! [img]redface.gif[/img]
I can also understand why they're doing the friend dolls, but I completely agree. It's a bit odd, and seems slightly excessive, to add on friend dolls to existing collections. I also like the idea of each doll having a complete collection and set of stories on their own, and I do think it almost cheapens (though perhaps that's not exactly the right word to describe it) the AG collection altogether because it's making some of the collections, like Samantha's, to excessive. Ideally, "Nellie" could have been an Irish Catholic immigrant from... who knows what time period... the 1950's? instead of just an "accessory" to Samantha's collection. (Not sure if I'm being very clear, but my point is I agree with you.)
As for a 1970's girl, I think it would be a bit awkward to have a girl who's from such a recent time. There were so many things happening in American society at the time, it would be difficult for the author of the stories to pick one niche in society for the girl to be from and go with it. Every 'group' in America at the time had a somewhat different view and American experience - whether it was in relation to Vietnam, towards what was happening at the time with civil rights and the presidency, towards the rift between the upper and lower classes of American society, towards the issues of racism and secregation in society that were still fresh in the minds of many. Additionally, it's not like a doll from the 70's would have been from our grandmother's or great-grandmother's (and beyond) generation - instead this is fresh from either our generation or our mother's generations, and I think it would be harder to satisfy people (mothers or grandmothers who would be buying the dolls for their daughters) who have closer ties and stronger, more personal views towards the events of this turbulent time period. Therefore, it would be extremely difficult for AG to completely satisfy everyone with the stories that they would write for a 1970's girl, and would probably spark more controversy than it would be worth to them.
With that said, I do hope that someday, when it's "less recent", AG does expand to having dolls from 1950's and 1970's eras, because those were important time periods in our country's history that would indeed be worthy of exploration by the AG series.
Another girl/collection I think might be interesting would be a 1920's girl - although the themes from that era have been already touched on by Samantha (the excesses of the upper class, first wave of feminism) and to some extent Kit.
Oh Tracy, that's funny! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Laurie
I would like to see a new historical doll, too. A Asian historical would be perfect.
I don't want the friends dolls to go away, though. I just love them!
A doll from 1814 would be wonderful. So much was happening--the "second Revolutionary War", for instance, the one that finally convinced the British they weren't getting us back. The furniture was glorious and the clothes were even more so. What fun that would be.
I have to say that I don't really mind there not being any new historicals. I bet it is really expensive to add a historical. And then I would want everything and I have to stop somewhere!
Then they have to redo everything too to include the new girl. I like having everyone there. Its ok if the "friend" dolls aren't pictured because they aren't part of the 8. And there collections are smaller so it is easier to collect and then each historical has someone from her time to share things with.
I'm pretty much perfectly happy with the times they've chosen. Just wish they'd make a beautiful asian doll with an oriental-themed collection. That would be awesome! I don't care if she were LE or not.
Well still no new historical, now we've got Emily on the way. I think I see a trend...
I really prefer historicals to the LE dolls. I don't mind the friend dolls since that gives me someone from their time to play with. The hair would be different for these time periods too.
I would love to have a Pilgrim girl. Perhaps her family fled religious persecution and then terror of the Native Americans, but instead they became friends and helped each other to survive the wilderness.
My genealogy has taken me to Harrisburg, PA, and the history of that area in the 1730's is very fascinating. The only problem with the Pilgrim idea is that there would be fewer accessories available probably.
I would also love to see a 1964 doll. I graduated from high school that year and remember the "Camelot" era very well. I love the clothes from then. The assisination of JFK changed a lot of things for us.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would also love to see a 1964 doll. I graduated from high school that year and remember the "Camelot" era very well. I love the clothes from then. The assisination of JFK changed a lot of things for us. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've always found the assisiantin of JFK and September 11th to be an interesting paradox. My mother was 18 when JFK died, and I was 19 when teh World Trade Center fell, and both of saw the country go upside down and will likely feel the changes from these events all of our lives. I think a child's reaction to the JFK assisination might make a very interesting story, even if AG themselves can't do it. I think sometimes we forget that children's minds work over the same horrible events ours do, they just process and relate to it differently.
Random thought...
I like both the way they are. But if I had to choose I would choose making their own time period doll. But they might be running out of time periods.
My ideal historical doll would be a doll from the 13 or 1400's. That would be cool! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oh, although I *do* love the friend dolls, I would love to see a new historical! I would LOVE to see a doll either from the Regency era -- 1804 - 1814-ish (Louisiana Purchase, fledgling US battling Great Britain and France -- very interesting era), or from the 1920s. That was a period of great turmoil and change in many ways, and I don't just mean the start of the Great Depression in 1929. It was really the start of the American revolution for women, what with getting the right to vote, cutting their hair short, wearing "loose" clothes (in more than one way!) and going into the workforce.
I also think an Asian-American historical around 1890 would be really cool (maybe from San Francisco?). I do hope they come out with one in the future, but until then, it's so fun to speculate!!
"Or what about a story about the Transcontinental Railroad, perhaps focusing on the Asian Immigrants who settled in the West and were slowly drawn into the interior as workers. Another important time and portion of the population which needs to be acknowledged in our history."
This is what I would truly love to see! AG is READY for a truly asian doll that looks truly asian! I don't think they realize what a gold mine they are sitting on with this one! The stories from this time period would be great and it is a subject sadly overlooked by our modern popular culture!! I really WISH they would do this one and I'd love to see Laurence Yep illustrate the books!
~Annie
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Word. Word, Word WORD. I keep hoping that someday one such girl will show up. I realize it's unlikely what with Kaya billed as the First American Girl, a title she's rightfully earned and that I don't bedgrudge her. But...I really sort of wish they'd set her date back far enough that I could have my pilgrim doll, just think of the beautiful meet outfit she could have!Quote:
Originally posted by Geneobug:
I would love to have a Pilgrim girl.
Though they probably couldn't do much more than that meet outfit in terms of clothing, unless they gave her a few optional vests or something, but considering all the wardrobe pieces, going authentic would probably be a pain and I doubt many girls would want to struggle with dressing her.
I can see why she'd be a bad sales item really, but all the same I'd love her. I'd even love if she just had a story or two, were there any Plymouth Colony stories in the History Mystery Series? I remember the one about the identured girl in Jamestown...
I could also see the aspect of the character's religious beliefs creating a problem. Since it was so central a part of pilgrim life and worldview, it would need the proper treatment in her stories and it would likely be quite difficult for the intended audience.
All the same, I think that these are only tiny difficulties and that if a pilgrim girl WERE made, she would be a great ambassador to the past. As unlikely as she seems, I'll keep hoping anyway.