Games: The Sega Sammy balance.

According to recent reports, the new heads at Sega Sammy Holdings (Or Just SEGA) have officially terminated all development studios such as Smilebit, Sonicteam, Digital Rex, Amusement Vision, etc. and has instead divided them into three sectors dedicated to different sectors in the gaming industry.

Here is the new structure:

Three divisions:

1. GE = Global Entertainment

* Focus: Develop games for consoles.

2. NE = New Entertainment

* Focus = Develop new content for the arcade and home console markets.

3. AM = Amusement

* Focus = Develop games for amusement machines.


(All following studios led by Hisao Oguchi & Yukio Sugino)


Global Entertainment Software R&D (Led by Yuji Naka)

Dept. #1 (Headed by Akinori Nishiyama [Sonic Advance]): Working on TBA projects.

Dept. #2 (Headed by Akira Nishino [Sakura Taisen]): Working on Sakura Taisen V for PS2.

Dept. #3 (Headed by Yuji Naka [Sonic: The Hedgehog]): Working on Phantasy Star Universe (platform/s TBA).

Mobile Content R&D Dept. (Headed by Kazunari Tsukamoto [Blood Will Tell: Tezuka Osamu's Dororo]): Working on new mobile titles and technology.

Sega Studio U.S.A. R&D (Headed by Takashi Iizuka [NiGHTS: Into Dreams, Sonic Heroes]): Working on TBA projects.

Sega Studio China R&D (Headed by Makoto Uchida [Project: Altered Beast]): Working on TBA projects.


New Entertainment R&D (Led by each dept. head)

Dept. #1 (Headed by Toshihiro Nagoshi [Daytona U.S.A.]): Working on SpikeOut: Battle Street for Xbox.

Dept. #2 (Headed by Yu Suzuki [Virtua Fighter, Shenmue]): Working on Shenmue Online for Japan/Asia.

Amusement Software R&D (Led by Hiroshi Kataoka)

Dept. #1 (Headed by Atsushi Seimiya [Shinobi]): Working on new arcade titles and technology.

Dept. #2 (Headed by Hiroshi Kataoka [Fighters Megamix]): Working on new arcade titles and technology.

Dept. #3 (Headed by Mie Kumagai [Virtua Tennis]): Working on new arcade titles and technology.

Racing Games R&D Dept. (Headed by Kenji Arai [Initial D: Arcade Stage]): Working on Sega Rally 2005 for PS2.

Sports Design R&D Dept. (Headed by Takayuki Kawagoe [Panzer Dragoon]): Working on baseball titles for Japan.

Family Entertainment (Headed by Hiroshi Uemura [Beetle Mushi King]): Working on kids arcade titles and technology.


On a side note, the SEGA Studio R&D happens to be the former Sonic Team USA and Sammy Studio.

This overrules many of the previous reformations which saw Sega combining their many subisidairy's. Hopefully this one will bring us the best out of Sega, and maybe, just maybe, we'll start getting the games we've been yearning for (ie, Shenmue III, Sonic Adventure III, Nights...). Comments?

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 02, 2005 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Cataferal ]</font>

GE = Global Entertainment

Let's hope it's really GLOBAL, not "gaijin not arowed in here".


Develop new content for the arcade and home console markets

This one will have things hard, as today's arcades aren't really superior to something you can have at home, and sage saged its dominant, active position in the arcade market 3 years ago because they are teh stupid.


Working on Sakura Taisen V for PS2

Yay, I've heard this is for gaijin too. We'll finally be able to play an English Sakura Taisen (Wars) game, and we might even see it in Europe somehow.


Dept. #3 (Headed by Yuji Naka [Sonic: The Hedgehog]): Working on Phantasy Star Universe

How will this game be? What about real Sonic games for a change? We haven't got any since... 1994 (1999 if you count SA1).


Sega Studio China R&D

Amazing, and good news. Companies rarely develop outside Japan. I'm intrigued to see what kinds of games will this team produce.


Shenmue Online for Japan/Asia

Oh, the fake Shenmue bastardization. You mean it's racist? It won't be available in whites and blacks' countries? Well, not like we'll lose much, but still annoying. If that's so, they can stuff it up their asses and fart broadband with it.


Overall I think this is a much better structuring (probably thanks to Sammy, not to sage), much better than the crap they did a few years ago (back then, if the boat was sinking, they pissed on it to sink it faster). I <s>hope</s> would like to see good stuff coming from them, but I can't have any hopes, not even if I see such projects being developed - not until they're released and out of their cancelling power.

After they abandoned Dreamcast, Sega went right down the pile, they lost what they gained with the effor of 10 or more years, and started making crap titles for other consoles.

Then they join to Sammy, which, in my opinion, sounds like they're trying to beat the record the SNK/Playmore people got, have an arcade board more than 10 years old still working and having games which are fairly surpased by other brand titles which are more advanced just because of the name (insert here the King Of Fighters Saga).

Sammy, also, took advantage on Sega, getting the hardware they developed (the Naomi board) so, i guess it was a logic decision for sammy to join sega in their efforts.

Sammy i guess that will try and keep making games as they wish, using the Atomis Wave as base (modified the Naomi board) So, what should sega do? Exactly what everybody expects them to do, I'd wish them to start making good games again, that they hear people and make games which are besides good and technologically advanced, fun to play and fully enjoyable.

I hope that fusion makes both companies have benefits and that sega (without the people who sank it in the helm) has again a name in the world of videogames. And i also would wish that those games were fully released, not just announced to get people's attention.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 02, 2005 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Melfice ]</font>

Sega went right down

Lol, that's saging. That's when sega became sage.


Sammy, also, took advantage on Sega

How a relatively small company took over a much larger one adds to the fun, but I think Sammy got into needless trouble with the sage directors and marketers they've got in the lot to cope with.


And i also would wish that those games were fully released

Here's sage's software life cycle:

Analysis→Design→Hyping→Coding→Testing→Cancelling.

So what games are you mst hoping to see from the reformed company in the future? My list is as follows:

Shining Force IV
Panzer Dragoon V
Sonic Adventure 3
Sonic 4 (a new retro style sonic game, using purely a high-res 2d engine)
ShenMue III
Nights Into Dreams remake
Nights Into Dreams 2

Im also actually looking forward to Phantasy Star Universe. Any cRPG from Sega is welcome in my eyes, since i know they have pulled them off very well in the past; be they online or offline.

I cant help but admit you have a point there. Whenever i post something here, i love to back myself up with linked sources and facts. However, figures are really difficuly to come by.
The only source i have for this is the european site http://www.gamesindustry.biz/ which provides game charts, up-to-date Shares accounts, and news articles which specifically state the sales of a game after a period of time (ie, a week, month or year) for games which break records, or go platinum.
However, this site wouldnt be useful for tracking the sales and profits gained from older games (such earlier FF's), or niche titles like Grandia II. The only way we can recognise a games success in such a way is by checking to see if a titles gone platinum or not, and if it has, we can probably check up online to see how quickly and by what extent of sales it achieved it. However, the very fact that RPG's have gone platinum in europe (even if its mostly just FF) suggests that theres a respectable market for the genre, even if we know it doesnt surpass the sales of big franchises like GTA.

With regards to the european market being a good target for MMORPG's, look no further than here! That should give you a good load of stats and figures on this matter at least.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 02, 2005 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Cataferal ]</font>

As long as I get Guilty Gear and PSO games, I could care less what the rest of Sega/Sammy does. Hopefulyl ST not being around anymore will mean PSO will finalyl not get treated like shit.

Actually, a Shenmue MMORPG sin't a good move, worldwide right now, considering WoW, FFXI, and EQ2's dominance of that market in the west. A new game that's not well known won't do well against those giants.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 02, 2005 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Xellos ]</font>

Every mmo will lose in this current situation. No mmorpg can beat those.

Don't forget Lineage 2, that looks damn good.

IRT Cata: Shining Force 4, Sonic 4, Nights Into Dreams... I think we're the ones into dreams if we think this could happen. The "too good to be true" theorem applies ^_^.

????

IRT OCB: This topic needs less sage, and more Sega

Sure, you tell me where's Sega (the one from the Genesis times), and I'll age.


Name calling is childish.

ZOMG


In fact, most of 4chan humour is crap outside the context of 4chan.

Sadly, it's *NOT* humor... sage saged itself and sucks big time. I'm the first to want a strong, productive Sega. But shit happens, and now they fell from the first position in my list to the 666th.


Also, what the hell is your obsession with the japanese being racist all the time?

Not all the time, only when they're being racist.


that may be a mistake

Lol, the sega of today is a mistake in an on itself. They won't do anything right.


You may play them, but who else will?

80% of console oriented gamers preferring cRPGs over all other genres, according to surveys, last time I checked.


I doubt Grandia II sold that many

I doubt Grandia II had nearly that much marketing.


With the exception of Square's RPGs, i doubt they are really as popular as you may think.

With the exception of Square's RPGs, they don't have much marketing.


I want facts, figures,

I posted some. Sorry I don't have time to search for more, but I believe it's clear enough.


links and naked breasts!

http://www.4chan.org

????

IRT Xellos: a Shenmue MMORPG sin't a good move, worldwide right now

Even if it'll sell like crap because of the strong competition,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana,sans-serif">code:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#77A5CC"><pre> Japan USA Yurop
????????????????????????
Asians only x 0 0
Asians, whites, and blacks x y z</pre></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

x+y+z &gt; x no matter how small y and z are.

Fixed costs are relatively irrelevant, and server costs for a MMORPG and marketing for a niche game are scalable to sales so they are irrelevant as well.

Therefore, if you have a product and you voluntarily decide not to sell it to some customers, you're saging yourself.

It just came to me, you have no clue how business works, do you?

IRT Xel - Yeah, from Sammy, all i want is another Guilty Gear game (which, according to Famitsu, is currently in development). I dont like anything else Sammy do or make, mostly because they rarely release anything outside of Japan.
Maybe that situation can be remedied with this merger reformation; although if they intend on bringing out titles like Seven Samurai 20XX, they may as well not bother.

As for ShenMue Online, im keeping an open mind. If they do decide to release it, it'll certainly be a much more unique take on the MMORPG formula, which is typically rooted to a fantasy setting. If we just pretend its not called ShenMue, and ignore that appalling intro FMV, the game itself may have its merits.

IRT OCB: It just came to me, you have no clue how business works, do you?

I probably know more than you do (prove otherwise). As an aggravating factor, your fanboyism for sega makes you think what they do is actually right and smrat.

I'll have to prove myself tomoz. I just don't have time today.

As for my fanboyism, i admit. But i would prefer to have loyalty to something i love, rather than be a gaming prostitute.

Remember the marriage vows, "for better, for worse". I love Sega so much, i'm willing to suggest i'm married to it. No matter how much they fuck up, i will always stand by them. I'm sure better times will come again.

i would prefer to have loyalty to something i love, rather than be a gaming prostitute.

I used to be fairly loyal and faithful to sega. Then they betrayed and assraped me and the system, sagas and games I love, and I got royally pissed, which is one of the reasons why I hate sega. The other reason being I can't stand their massive stupidity; /b/tards on scaturday night would be better decision makers.

After that, I wandered around like a poor man begging for RPGs. And had to go through the humiliation of getting a PS2 in order to play my RPGs. Since then, I became a RPGs whore, caring not for companies and showing no loyality or mercy. I still hate sega, I hate microsoft, and I more or less hate sony (even though they're making it hard to hate them lately).

Even so, I'm buying next sony's or billy's depending on what system gets the best RPGs. Remember, I buy consoles to play RPGs, not to say "I have a XXXX console!". (I'll consider Nintendo's too, but I haven't heard much of their next system yet.) And if sega goes back to the console business, I'll wait two years before buying and make a decision based on their stupidity rate, but you have to understand my ass is still sore from what they did with the Dreamcast, and the least I can do is to despise them deeply for being utterly stupid.


I'm sure better times will come again.

And regardless of how much I hate them, I still would like to see this; better times means console I buy. However, by looking at facts like sales and market share one can see it's not that sega's doing bad today - it's their usual. They just did exceptionally good with the Genesis, those were a few abnormally lucky years. Maybe their directors back then were in coma after mistaking 2-propanol for Aquarius and smrat people had taken over it. Or maybe they got so lucky, they couldn't fuck up, no matter how hard they tried.

This topic needs less sage, and more Sega. Name calling is childish. In fact, most of 4chan humour is crap outside the context of 4chan.

Also, what the hell is your obsession with the japanese being racist all the time? Sure that Shenmue MMORPG ain't being released here, and that may be a mistake, but thats a business move. It probably would do well over here, and the success of FFXI, WoW, Matrix Online, etc, may convince them to bring it over.

Same with most cRPGs. You may play them, but who else will? GTA:SA sold 1 million copies in 9 days of it's release in the UK. I doubt Grandia II sold that many, including all the versions from all over the world since it's release. With the exception of Square's RPGs, i doubt they are really as popular as you may think.

Now prove me wrong. I want facts, figures, links and naked breasts!

MMORPG means tying up people to constantly be giving it new contnet and fixing it.

You have the costs for that.

Then you have server maintenance. new content development. Balance issues, and implementing the fixes, and this is just the tip.

Not worth it for a game which isn't popular in the western world.

MMORPG means tying up people to constantly be giving it new contnet and fixing it.

Properly designed and implemented MMORPGs only need a base of moderators, which you can recruit and get for free if you're smart enough. New contents will be developed anyways, remember they're doing it for the Asians.


Then you have server maintenance.

If it's going to be that small compared to other MMORPGs, you can have third party partially managed servers. And don't forget people will be paying for it, and it's not a fixed cost but it scales to customers and therefore incomes.


new content development.

Already going to do for Asia. So they will be an even lower investment - same money spent, but for more customers and incomes.


Balance issues, and implementing the fixes

If they're going to screw it like PSO then yes. But it'll happen in Asia anyways, and what they are doing for Asia, they can do for the rest of the world at no additional cost and additional revenues. (This doesn't even have to be translated.)


and this is just the tip

Actually, you're giving more justification for a global release. You have a set of fixed costs to get the game running in Asia, which are analysis, design, development, testing, fixing, and improving/new features. You can divide these costs among x customers' profits, or you can divide these costs among x+y+z.


Not worth it for a game which isn't popular in the western world.

Worth if you'll sell more than, say, 10000 units, which would easily happen. And you know why the game is not popular to begin with - it's sage's fault again.

Sega is making Shining Force Neo, an action RPG(which pisses me off). We will not see another good Shining Force game(Strat. RPG) unless by some fluke chance they make an incredible story and good gameplay. Fuck that just get them to release all of Shining Force III. I wish Sega would buy out Camelot(will never happen and besides they left Sega) so that we can get another good Shining Force game.

Actually, it's ot popular in the US cause it's not a game most US gamers like.

Not only PSO is screwed. Every MMORPG has balance issues (In fact, PSO is the most balanced ORPG I've ever played). What PSO had was an abundance of cheaters, almost all of which were US and Europe. I'm pretty sure Sega's fed up with the west destroying their online game's community, besides the fact that it's not a worthwhile venture for the US,a nd probably Europe.

Actually, it's ot popular in the US cause it's not a game most US gamers like.

Same was thought with other successful games. Even so, x+y+z &gt; x+z, is it that hard to see?


Every MMORPG has balance issues

So? I doubt only westerners would find them. Asians would get that fixed anyways.


What PSO had was an abundance of cheaters, almost all of which were US and Europe.

So it's a good idea to make the game Asian only? PSO was "oh exploitable" and was poorly managed. This is their problem, not mine. It won't make my money any less worth than a Japanese's or Chinese's.


I'm pretty sure Sega's fed up with the west destroying their online game's community

You say they're blaming you and I of fux0ring PSO? If that's so, I'm more pissed at them than ever, and I wish they lose loads of money with this game and go bankrupt faster.


besides the fact that it's not a worthwhile venture for the US,a nd probably Europe

They are developing the game and this is inevitable. Extending the release area to cover more countries has minimal fixed costs and scalable costs which depend on sales. It would need to be really pathetic in the west for it not to be profitable, for something you're going to develop anyways. This is pretty simple, I cannot understand why you can't see it. Perhaps thinking it's not sega's but sony's game might help.

Considering Sega released many fixes and such to PSO to prevent it, but US and EU hackers and AR idiots continued to ruin the game, yeah, htye are blaming us. How many PSO GCNs were there? There was a 1.0 GCNPSO, a 1.01, and then a PSO+, all fixing things,a nd always being exploited right back again by the US and EU players. While on the JP servers, veryr arely were there non legit players, and the few that were were US morons over there to ruin the JP players fun.

It may be profitable, but they would be wasting time, and tying up staff, working on it constantly. The very small profit they gain isn't worth the trouble.

Considering Sega released many fixes and such to PSO to prevent it, but US and EU hackers and AR idiots continued to ruin the game, yeah, htye are blaming us.

This is good to know. I won't ever play an online game from sage, even if they release them here too. I don't like to be called a vandal, so I'll add sage to my ban list on online gaming.


How many PSO GCNs were there? [...] all fixing things,a nd always being exploited right back

There are always hackers and ill-intentioned people. If PSO was that exploitable, it was their fault. Better designed online games don't have these problems, do they?


It may be profitable, but they would be wasting time, and tying up staff, working on it constantly. The very small profit they gain isn't worth the trouble.

Risk and investment (both money and personnel) are, in fact, the difference. For a huge company like sega, investment wouldn't be a problem (in fact it would be desirable), and it'd be all up to risk. However, there are several ways to reduce risk if you don't intend your product to be a major success/mainstream one, like hiring amateur game masters that will work for free, or not advertising the game (something usual for sega BTW). I still think they should have released it, unless they deemed it negative for their image for some reason (bastardizing Shenmue is bad, but I don't think it's THAT bad).

Not talking about moderators. Talking about the constant aadditions and fixes that are needed witha n MMORPG.

And most ORPGs are easily exploited, it's just that most have a good team of moderators. PSO:BB is a PC game, and hacked easily of course, but Sega's kept it under control. However, once it hits US shores, you can be assured all hell's going to break loose.

"I don't like to be called a vandal, so I'll add Sega to my ban list on online gaming."

So where's that press release directed to you? Wasn't Xellos just pointing out that the West tends to have more people willing to hack games to hell? It's like how you wouldn't walk into a high mugging area at night. Doesn't mean the whole city is evil, but to escape the risk, it's sometimes better to just stay out. This is just a business decision based on capital risk accesement. It's nothing personal, so stop freaking being offended.

Besides, do you want to play a game where everyone cheats?

IRT Xel: Not talking about moderators. Talking about the constant aadditions and fixes that are needed witha n MMORPG.

They are going to do these anyways - and it's a fixed cost. Europe and America wouldn't be an additional cost in this department.


And most ORPGs are easily exploited, it's just that most have a good team of moderators.

Well then, it's sega's fault not having one for PSO. Either way all I can say is other games don't have this problem, I don't see why sega's would be so prone to.


once it hits US shores, you can be assured all hell's going to break loose

One could say there are more ill-intentioned people (syn: morons) in the west when it comes to online gaming, but then again you're not going to trust people's goodwill for something like this, are you?


IRT OCB: So where's that press release directed to you?

It looks to me that sega's discriminating our continents and cultures. I don't like such discrimination, as I consider the Japanese our equals. I wouldn't like it if a western company who is willing to afford the fixed costs and has the power to invest to purposefully decide not to release a software product in Asia because Asians tend to uh... have more loli hentai comics?


Wasn't Xellos just pointing out that the West tends to have more people willing to hack games to hell?

Yes, I acknowledged it in this post.


It's like how you wouldn't walk into a high mugging area at night. Doesn't mean the whole city is evil, but to escape the risk, it's sometimes better to just stay out.

Agreed, but you won't deny electricity or water to this area because of this, right?


do you want to play a game where everyone cheats?

No, but I'd be paying them to make sure people don't. RO was pretty cheap and reasonably effective in this way. The community was nice, despite being open to all the fucktards of the intarweb (and being rather popular i.e. not too much an underground game).

would you two stfu. Sega is not discriminating against anyone and quit thinking so. PSO had a poor system with dealing with AR people, hacked and duped items along with spammers. My opinion is they really never tried to take care of the problem.

they really never tried to take care of the problem

So you think it was sega's fault anyways, am I rite?

Well, what could you do? You have a MMORPG which allows offline play. All other MMORPGs are online only, so characters are saved online.

If you could give a suggestion which allows completely offline play without the risk of hacking, i'd like to hear it.

Sure. I recall I thought a lot on it years ago in the board.

I suggested something like this:

- You can start your game offline or online
- Offline games can only be played offline and/or in a LAN with people you know from RL.
- Online games are stored in the server and are played online or in offline mode, where you are connected to the server for constant approval (*) but do not play with or see anybody else in your game.
- Online games can be copied and converted to pure offline games permanently (so you can play without Internet and play with friends); you can't move it back online, but you still have your online game.

(*): Changes done to your game (like items you get, monsters you kill) are sent to the server every 3 minutes and have to be approved to be stored as permanent progress.

Security policy:
- Code is self expanding, self decrypting, and polymorphic; expands using hardware specific features; traps all debugging instructions; includes a hard copy of the OS and reinstalls it in RAM; refuses to run on absolutely any anomaly including hardware timing anomalies whose patterns are hardcoded within the self-encoded code and checked in a chaotic way. All code that's not critical for speed (i.e. load/save, find rare item, change level, connect/disconnect, menus, and options, to name some), is ran through a machine code obfuscator and expanded to 300%. This would make it way harder to trace and investigate; so difficult only a sick person would go through such a bother, and that's just to see if you can find any exploits.
- Actual game code is written very carefully, using all propietary data manipulation functions, bound and length checking.
- All code relating the online functionality (i.e. the contact with the server) is online. The server transfers randomly modified versions of this code which contain several keys and MD5 digests that need to be transferred to the server actively (on instruction) and passively (on random server demand) so the server can check you're using the code you've been given.
- Clients prove unique with a signed key.
- Any irregularities found in online and semi-offline mode, and any illegal use of signed keys will ban you forever.
- When you make the online gaming contract, i.e. pay, you are to agree to get charged an extra, non-refundable $500 service cost if you're found trying to cheat as determined solely by the company. This is legally binding and charged to the same credit/debit card used for payment, getting you in trouble if there are no funds.
- Some Class 1 GMs who are paid, officially work for the company, and can decide on closing accounts, and a bunch of Class 2 GMs, who are recruited, unpaid, get gaming advantages or free months, can denounce accounts, and are banned if ever found corrupt.
- You also agree by contract to let the company analyze all chat by various bots and human agents (privacy nazis: stop writing that flame you're writing right now; you won't marry your girl in a chat, will you? And GMs won't be interested in your private life, will they?). Bots register and analyze chats with heuristics and inform GMs on suspicious conversations.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 04, 2005 09:53 AM: Message edited by: -Wiseman- ]</font>

Which programmer would care to take all that made in a game?

Myself, if I were getting paid. Consider it part of the requirements of the project. The game core is going to be harder to do anyways, they should be able to do this too. In fact they did this kind of thing in a few games in the past, to avoid HK made pirate carts ran in pirate consoles. Some SNES games are bitches.


What Programmers are said to do is reflected in their design document, and they only care about that

Yes. Make all of what I said requisites, of course.


using "standard" security measures

Yeah but when standard security measures means something like read(savegame, buf, 16); items[buf[3]]++;, you gotta do something about it. Most things one carelessly does are oh exploitable ^_^. And the stdlib (which they shouldn't probably be using in console games, but they would still use in PC games) is even more oh exploitable.

Actually, most code is OH EXPLOITABLE in a number of witty ways; good, skilled programmers are vital for online games to work.


converted into code by CASE tools

For a commercial game, you'd get 0.001% of the code done at best.

Yes, PSO was partly Sega's fault. However, you can't enitrely blame them, as they DID try. They released MANY versoins of PSO, and on all but PSO+ offered themas free exchanges. If that's not trying, then I don't know what the hell you're on. And on the DreamCast das, they were banning items and users. But this didn't discourage people, and eventually they gave up. And honestly, they really had no other choice. Why waste their time and money into trying to fix something that the users want to ruin?

And also, ALWAYS on PSO, the Japanese population has heavily outweighed the US. When PSO GCN first started, US had 1500 at peaktimes, Japan 10,000+. Now, thanks to US lamers, we're lucky to get 150, wow Japan, despite having US lamers go over to their ships and try and ruin things, have 1500 at peak, ~1000 normally. EU has almost never been good for PSO, most I've ever seen is 300 when they were first started. Now the few EU users are just spread across the US, JP, and EU servers.

Obviously, Sega's looking at PSO to see what to do regarding Shenmue. And I feell they're making a smart deicsion. Just because a few of us are ncie people, the large majority of western players are complete fucktards.

If that's not trying, then I don't know what the hell you're on

But they aren't very witty if they took so many tries and still got exploited. I think they should have spent more of their best programmers on the task. I understand they have little experience on this sector, but secure, quality code it's kind of a requirement.

Sometimes game programmers really suck on this; for example, want a simple way to crash the PC Grandia II port? Just go options and define key j... j = 10th letter = 0Ah and they fopened the file in text mode so in Windows 0Ah = 0Dh 0Ah and the game crashes on load. Damn that's one fucking line of code, they could have bothered to fix it...


this didn't discourage people

Hm. Maybe a $500 <s>fine</s> "service cost" they have to agree to pay if found cheating would help.


Why waste their time and money into trying to fix something that the users want to ruin?

Cos 99% of them don't. Same reason why the state enforces laws even if there are people who live to break them.


And I feell they're making a smart deicsion. Just because a few of us are ncie people, the large majority of western players are complete fucktards.

The large majority of people don't have 1% the skills and resources to hack and exploit a game. I think it's a retarded decision on their part, but this is only normal, it's sage. Sage them.

No. You're wrong.

It's more like 70% of US and EU users want to ruin it. The few who have the skillst o hack leak their hacks and it's only a matter of time. This isn't some typical, most people are nice, and a few are bad, the majority of US and EU players suck.

oh please Xellos, How much does it take to release a different version. In my opinion that is not enough, seems like they were half assing buy releasing 2 new versions. Ya there are bad people out there but quit fucking blaming US an EU players, ya some were like that but there are both equally japanese players that did the same. And you can't tell me about the DC days because you hardly played the DC version as much as I have online.

Considering it was mostly US adn EU players. You know as well as I do htat very few JP players weren't messing around, and those that were quit very early on. You're a fool if you think the asshole JP players even begin to stand up t the US and EU. I've never seen a JP player, on DC or GCN NOL or FSOD anyone.

Releasing new versions, and exchanging them for free isn't exactly a selfish move, is it? I didn't say they did a ton, but you can't say Sega did nothing, as they spent their money,w ith no gain, to try and help PSO. And what do we do? Spit in their face, doing the same things once again.

Get the hell off your anti Sega tirades. As much as I dislike them, you people seem to ignore their good efforts just because their stupidity overshadows their good moments.

IRT Xel(1): It's more like 70% of US and EU users want to ruin it.

Even if that were true, which I highly doubt, not even 2% of these will have ANY hacking skills, and out of these, only 25% of them would have the required tools and time.


This isn't some typical, most people are nice, and a few are bad, the majority of US and EU players suck.

Then sega must question and study why did this happen and what to do for it not to happen, because it's not happening in games like RO. Probably one of their faults is to target the wrong segment. Wouldn't be a surprise, since sega's marketing is <s>pathetic</s> <s>inexistent</s> colossally retarded and sworn to sage sega.


IRT Xel(2): I've never seen a JP player

I haven't played the game online so I may be very wrong here, but how do you know? Do Japanese players wear kimonos and carry Japanese imperial flags around?


they spent their money,w ith no gain

With the gain of not losing PSO to crackers. They intended to make money with the game, and naturally, they needed to protect it with some costs.


their stupidity overshadows their good moments

If the Universe was finite, their stupidity would cover most of it. Their good moments were brief dreams, a grain of sugar in a bitter ocean. When looked back from today, I think they weren't moments of glory, but miraculous coincidences absolutely out of their control.


Sega needs to die, soon. I'm getting too tired of their stupidity. They are fucked up beyond all repair, or so it seems. I would like to see them flourish, but this wish exists only in dreams, and from any barely realistic standpoint, given the current flow of events, sega's irremediably heading for bankruptcy.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 04, 2005 07:52 PM: Message edited by: -Wiseman- ]</font>

Why do you care if they die? What good comes from that? If they're so annoying, then just ignore their stupidity.

JP players have a J after their name.

And that 70% is no exaggeration. And they don't need the skills, as all it takes is one person to spread hacks or AR codes.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 04, 2005 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Xellos ]</font>

Why do you care if they die?

I hate them too much to be comfortable with them around.


What good comes from that?

LAUGHS XD
(*)


they don't need the skills, as all it takes is one person to spread hacks or AR codes

Once it's known, sega can react to it server-side (in most cases), unless they don't play their own game.

????

(*): Note: I know I'm being evil, and I obviously exaggereated in my last post, but I resent them too much and don't see any changes; in fact I see them worse every day and get pissed at them for a new reason every time I check videogame news.

I haven't forgotten how I loved sega, and the fun I had while I did. So in a way, sega being like this is painful for me too. That's another reason why I want them to die once for all. They're pissing on the few good memories I have of them.

<font color="#345E81" size="1">[ March 04, 2005 08:28 PM: Message edited by: -Wiseman- ]</font>

(Warning...Software Engineering stuff ahead!...)

To answer that i'd say simply: Which programmer would care to take all that made in a game? i guess they'd complain about the money it would use to get it done, for not to speak theyd probably would not know even one of those things.

What Programmers are said to do is reflected in their design document, and they only care about that. Normally, the design of software uses not to have that contemplated, as it is made using "standard" security measures, as it doesn't imply really much risk to the company (heh! sure) And even, the programming task is done automatically when the design document is correctly written, and converted into code by CASE tools.

In other words, unless the designer of the software has all that in mind, sadly, much won't do it (also they're pressed to have their job done quickly also, the "company" puts deadlines to them)

What ive learned just being a computer science student is:
-1 Money has much more importancy that the works done.

-2 Programmers are Lazy by nature.

When these points changed, then, maybe we could see again good games, and probably, the releasing of titles world wide (as money would have been considered a secondary interest) but this is "hardcore" Sci-Fi.

I don't think Japanesse companies hate systematically "occidental Gaijins" I simply believe they look for the money before than anything. But then, this makes me wonder another thing, a strong company like Namco, why don't they release ALL the "Only Japan/USA" stuff they have? it's not a risk for them. But this is not the point of the thread.