Problems with allowing ANY FA to be drafted

Tengu selected Darrel Perez for pick 112. Darrel did not appear on the FA list until after March 4th.

If we allow a player who was not available at the beginning of the draft to be chosen:

It is unfair since not everyone had a chance to draft him.

It creates an incentive for everyone to wait to pick until they see if any new FA's pop up during their 30 hours, since they would get the first crack at him.

I know people will look at tengu's pick and think, "He's not that great, just let tengu keep him." If everyone decides to go along with that, I will too, but keep in mind that you're opening up the possibility for Stumps to get the two best players in the draft with first and last picks if he happens to get lucky.

Let him keep him. If stumps were to get the best player at the last pick morpar to him. I got no problems with it

i dont have an issue with it either hes not better than a 4th round pick the chances of finding someone that is better than a 4th round pick is very slim given there are very few picks left to be made ...

aslo as stumps said unless a shaq or jordan appears then let it go until that time the chance of it happening is very very slim

Around 25 balls total skill and a salary of only 5.3 mil makes Perez pretty darn good value for money. Add that he's 27 with a few decent years yet, and I'm pretty sure he would have gone earlier if available.

But then we're so close to the end that I'm ok to leave it and keep going with the draft and finally get some games started.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ March 07, 2005 10:13 PM: Message edited by: rprodent ]</font>

Without going through all of the picks and verifying each pick, I dont think it would be fair to force a change at this point in time. It could end up being a very slippery slope in the long run. I was and probably am still looking at that exact position and I would have avoided that player so this move doesnt affect me as much as it might others.

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Originally posted by DaFreak:
Without going through all of the picks and verifying each pick, I dont think it would be fair to force a change at this point in time. It could end up being a very slippery slope in the long run. I was and probably am still looking at that exact position and I would have avoided that player so this move doesnt affect me as much as it might others.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">I have gone through each pick and verified that they were all players that were available at the start of the draft. Tengu's pick is the only one of a player who was not.

Turing, I think you are right on the money. However, I'm sick of all the rules and sick of waiting for the league to start, so I don't care anymore. If it must come to a vote, I vote don't draft them. But if anyone does draft them, I don't care.

Da Freak picked Wilczewski, H. with pick 115. He was another player that appeared after the start of the draft.

im cool with it. lets just keep it rolling

Yeah but now you are in violation of an actually draft rule but it's not like it was enforced before when it occured.

THREE: Once you make your pick it is final. DO NOT go back and edit your post to change your pick ? that will only confuse and in truth screw up everything else. Take your time and make the right choice for your team and strategy.

what are you talking about tengu? other then trying to justify keeping the player you selected. I dont see how me changing my pick has messed ANYONE UP. Not one person picked after me, so nothing has happened since I made my original pick. So it affects nobody for me to change my pick to someone on the original list. And also explain to me which "rule" i broke in changing my pick to someone who wasnt previously selected and who is on the original draft list?

I agree rule #3 specifically states not to change a pick. But what has happened when 2 previous people picked players already drafted? They switched their pick to fix the original problem.

I personally feel taking a player who wasnt on the original list isnt acceptable. Since this is how I feel, I dont feel comfortable taking a player who isnt on the original list. I then feel like I broke a rule, so I did what was possible to correct that problem.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ March 08, 2005 01:22 PM: Message edited by: DaFreak ]</font>

My point is that you did break a rule by changing your pick, but you did not break a rule by drafting someone who was available. There was never an agreement as to what was draftable and who wasn't. I'm not trying to justify what I did, as there is no reason for me to do so as I did nothing wrong. As for your point of changing their picks, well D'uh it's impossible for a player to be on teams so they had to change their picks. I'm just trying to make a point that what I did shouldn't be an issue, especially when draft rules are being broken. I could care less that you and rodent changed yours, I just don't like being more or less called a cheater.

I dont want to infer that you have "cheated" I just personally feel that taking a player who wasnt on the list originally isnt fair to the rest of the league. Saying that it should be fairly obvious that once the draft is over if the guy I selected originally with my pick is still on the list, I will absolutely be making a play for him on the F/A list. Now should I be penalized if someone else takes this player later on? I am not going to make a huge stink out of it either way, since myself like most people in here just want the games to start. I just personally dont feel it is in the spirit of the game or league to take players who others have avoided to be "fair to everyone".

Tengu, you claim you did nothing wrong. You believe what you did shouldn't be an issue. You are correct in saying that there was never a specific vote on it, but there was the following:

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posted February 06, 2005 02:15 PM by TuringComplete
Bump -- so everyone knows.

Any additional FA's that pop up (no good ones yet) can't be included in the draft or it's not fair to those who picked before they appeared. Only the players on the original list and this addendum may be selected.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">Also:

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posted March 05, 2005 07:49 AM by Bondy
hey guys. what ended up being the ruling regarding draftable players. ie is all fa's draftable or only those who were on the list b4 the first pick?

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">To which I responded:

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Since FT is out of town, you'll have to wait a long time for an "official" answer, but in the interest of fairness, we pretty much have to limit it to those guys who were available at the start of the draft. The available players are here and here.

I suppose you could always call for a vote if you want to do things differently.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">And this thread as well http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...c/f/8994/t/128
where Graffin asks about this very issue and I responded

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It wouldn't be fair to draft a FA that has popped up since the beginning of the draft.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">No one objected to any of these assertions. More to the point, YOU never objected to any of them. There was one consistent message (albeit just by me) but never any dissent. The fact that you never started a vote and allowed this assertion to stand demonstrates that you were hoping to "get away with something" even if you don't consider it cheating.

According to what you posted on the simgal board today,

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There was a reason I wanted 4th round picks as I wanted to draft the best players out there at the time.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">you intended all along to pick any FA's that showed up during the draft.
How can you say that you're not trying to pull a fast one with everyone else's understanding of the rules is different than what you intend to do? You could have posted to any of those threads stating your intent. You could have started a vote to clarify things.

Another contrast to the rprodent's breaking of the rule is his post,

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posted March 01, 2005 10:06 PM by rprodent
I made a mistake with my draft pick #101. I didn't realise my first pick was age 38, I had him as 30 on my draft list. It was Anton Kelsay, PF. I picked it up and changed it only a few minutes after I made the post, but if anyone has a problem with it I'll change it back.

Sorry guys.

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<font size="3" face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">RP specifically stated that he was willing to change it back if anyone objected, thereby offering to follow the rule even though most people wouldn't have even noticed if he did it without notifying everyone. You offered no such alternative. You simply state, "There was no vote that said I couldn't."

Even when 4h and GK agreed to a loan deal "that no one voted that they couldn't," they at least posted their intentions beforehand and asked if there were any objections.

There has been no vote which says I can't make one-sided trades to give some team a championship. There has been no vote which says I can't have an extra draft pick -- sure there's a rule stated on the main draft page that you might construe to mean I can't have an extra, but in reality, no one ever voted on exactly that set of rules.

It may sound like I'm being very strident about this issue, and if so, I apologize. I honestly don't care that much whether your draft pick stands or not. I just want to make sure this situation is very clear so when the league as a whole decides how to handle this situation, the precedent is clear. We're either a gentlemen's league where everything is above board, or we're a cutthroat league where everyone tries for their own advantage even if that means retreating to a stand of "There was no vote that said I couldn't."

I never like the unable to draft someone originally not on the list. It doesn't make much sense. No one is going to cut someone who is really good - and no superstars have been added while the draft is happening. So it is a moot point - if forced to vote (while I may agree technically with Turing) - I would vote for Tengu. It was not like planned on ripping us all off and honestly his pick is not that great

Lets not make mountains out of Molehills. I se no problem with someone makeing a mistake as long as they fix it before the next person drafts. And once someone comes up on the draft list let them draft them unless he is a superstud then we vote on if that player should be let into the draft. I could care less if the guy with the first and last picks gets the 2 best players on paper because both might be slackers on the court.

was he? dang, i will take a look back at my list and repick since nobody has gone after me yet. i think in a situation like this, maybe its best for me to be pro-active and change it since i now know he wasnt on the list already.

I changed my pick to someone on the original list. Sorry about that guys, I was rushing this morning trying to get my pick in before Tracker went to the Library [img]tongue.gif[/img] I wasnt paying attention like I normally do.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ March 08, 2005 01:06 PM: Message edited by: DaFreak ]</font>

In all honesty, this issue have been as clear as mud.

I asked twice on the league messageboard, and both time was told that all players on the FA, at all times, was available for draft.

I asked once on this messageboard (in the thread TC has linked to) and then was told all was fair game, then told that not all was fair game and that pretty much was it.

So I thinks its fair to say that no "rule" on the subjects has been in effect.

Frankly, no matter what a rule had been, I my opinion it would have been fair.
Having an restricted FA-list (As TC have argued for having) would have been fair, if it had been put to a vote, and everybody had known that, that was the was it was going to be run.
Having a non-restricted FA-list (as Tengu have argued for having) would have been fair as well, as every manager would have an even chance of someone good coming along during his pick.

Problem have been that no rule has been put to vote, and since no player in this league, imo, have been given the authority to state/decide rules that have not been put to a vote, my conclusion would be that all players on the FA-list are fair game, and that we should all keep this in mind, and make sure to start a vore next time an issue like this come along.

All of us, including myself, had the choice to start a vote when the issue was first raised....none of us did.

Jesus Christ! Just pick your damn players!

I don't think in the end it will make that much difference, even if a decent player did become available. We've still got to stay under the salary cap, and it's not as if a stud is going to come on the market and only want a couple mil. There'll still be quite a bit of talent left over after the draft is finished anyway, which will make for an interesting FA period before the first games. With only 10 picks left in a couple of days it'll all be passed and the real fun can begin. I can't wait!