How much you practicing?

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April 16th, 2005, 07:05 PM
matricks

Ok, and i am gonna try this topic again, last time no one wanted to divulge this information... secrets, secrets [img]wink.gif[/img]

It started with this:
I kept a detailed practice log about two years ago, and i kept it for exactly a year. I noted everything i worked on, in complete detail with notes and all the sort... what exercises from what books, tempos, variations, how it felt, amount of minutes, etc.

Now, i decided to go back (with all my spare time... which is too much apparently [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] ) and add up all the times and actually plot them on a graph... all 365 days to see my tendencies, i.e. if i throw down an 8 hour day, will i therefore be burned out and not hit the practice for 3 days following?

I found some interesting things when i saw it all in black and white, saw a year's worth of hard work and laziness right before my eyes. No matter how many 8 hours days i put in and no matter how many days off i took, i still averaged the same amount of practice time, month after month, all year long. Three hours a day was the average, and that is three hours of solid, no-noodling practice. That just seems to be my upper limit... no matter how hard i try; that just seems to be where the balance is at... any more and i become burned, lose motivation and slack a bit, any less and i go crazy and over compensate, therefore bringing the average up again.

Now, after looking at that, i am wondering how much, and of what, is everyone else doing? What about 'back in the day'? I am posting this question just so i can maybe be inspired from hearing what other people do, maybe get a realistic view of what others are doing; gauge whether i need to strive to do more or whether i need to chill a tad bit sometimes... [img]confused.gif[/img]

Anyways, just seeing what people wanna offer up as to what their routine is like, hopefully pass on some insight and motivation to others by sharing [img]wink.gif[/img]

Let's see if it works this time [img]tongue.gif[/img]
April 16th, 2005, 08:05 PM
jonthibault

I just got a sound-off for my bass drum and I moved into a house, so I play for an hour a day. Lately I've been working on a Steve Smith jazz thing (the independence/interdependence thing he does on his video--the phrases of 3s and 2) and assorted grooves. I'm also working on some latin stuff--the mambo, salsa and cha-cha--which I've always been weak on.

I do everything to a click, a Roland DR550.
April 16th, 2005, 08:50 PM
moosetication

Well, I'm no pro by a long chalk. I got back into drumming after a modest (28 year) hiatus, two years ago, at the age of 45. It's my mid-life crisis and psychotherapy - well, I had neither the stamina, the nerve nor the cash to take a mistress.

I have two kits - one acoustic, one e-drums.

The acoustic is in the garage. I'm in a built-up area, so it has mesh heads and silencers on the cymbals. On that kit right now I'm mostly interested in geography: motion, space, time, position, accuracy. Eliminating stick crosses and rim clatters, getting consistent rimshots. The aim here is to ensure that the execution when I play out (which I do on this kit) is as good as it can be, because I don't stretch those "muscles" when playing on the Es.

The Es are in the music room indoors. There I'm interested in music and musical technique; playing exercises (to click) like Stone or Chapin or Riley, or playing to backing tracks (like the Turn it Up series, or the Rhythm magazine cover CDs) or to regular CDs. At the moment I'm concentrating on swing and comping.

Overall, I manage about an hour a day on weekdays and two at the weekends, with more spent on the Es than the As. I play for enjoyment, so I'm not fussed if it's less. The aim always is to come out doing something better than when I went in, no matter how small.
April 16th, 2005, 08:55 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi Matricks,

Good question. I'm pretty new on this forum, but have posted one of my actual exercises in the past couple of days. I am happy to describe my practice approach. Firstly I should explain that though I've played for many years I've been involved in other things - design, writing - and only in the past couple of years have I really focused on drumming again. Some friends think I am nuts to go for it again at my age - 33, when I had a comfortable living before... well i don't. I love drums! I now support myself by working in a bookshop and practice on average eight hours a day.

I'm with Jojo Mayer when he says 'practice for results'.

Here is my routine (morning to night):

I start around 11:00. I do the 'sun salutation' (which Steve Hass is also a fan of, a yoga exercise) and some wrist / arm stretching stuff for a few mins.

1.5 hrs on hands, start with full strokes, moeller accent exercises, stone killer stuff, fill-ins... I lead with Left on everything (i am righty) I play trad grip *exclusively* (I can play matched - did for 10 yrs but am not wasting time now by going for both)

Next up is feet... about 1.5 hrs:

Heel-up/heel down exercises, stone killer with feet (double pedal), all kinds of 'progressive' studies to build strength, especially in right foot. doubles, paradiddles.. all the stick control stuff.

Break

Next up is co-ord

(see my posted exercise for one of my current studies)
I am currently working through triplet linear co-ord stuff (Weckl's next step 'big' exercise), with all left lead. LRF, LFR, FLR, and combinations with singles LFLFLF and doubles LLFFLLFFLL... i also spend about 20 mins on improv over a shuffle 24 bar sequence (i use v-drums)... basically seeing where i fall over... working out weak spots and targeting them for extra work.

Next up is Gary Chester New Breed II.. (about 2 hrs, 3 if it is tough) I try to work through one pattern with all melodies every day, I sing all the parts as well. I think that is one of the gratest discoveries I have made... it connects the emotional with the physical... sing the quarter, melody, RH, LD etc... try and really feel how leach limbs interacts with each other.

Break

Next is Polyrhythms, beat-displacment and phrasing. Alot of Vinnie type stuff: Chaffee type groupings (5's,7's,9's) played over bar-line. I find that this stuff really helps basic grooving as well. As Vinnie once said "One hand feeds the other." V True.

I also do some transcribing and listening... I am a big fan of Brazilian music, so currently I am listening to lots and lots of Brazilian smusic.

Thats the rough outline.

Besides that I have a PC set-up with the V-drums so I use Excel (even though I hate Mico$oft) to log all my practice. This includes goals, current BPM, new ideas and even albums to get, books to get etc.... I update this after each practice session.

I also use Sibelius software for writing out exercises and help with poly and meter stuff...

The V-drums are also great because you can record yourself (as MIDI) and play it back immediately - and slow it down!!. I like to use technology to serve me and the are lots of possibilities with software (one example: a quarter note that accelerates from say 60 to 160 and back down over x minutes)... great for discipline and practice.

I also count out loud when doing certain exercises. I will repeat something 100 times a day (if it is tricky) and count 1 2 3 4, 2 3 4 5... 99 2 3 4, 100 2 3 4...

hope that gives you some insight.
This is what I am working on right now. I have a longer term plan which covers the next 2 years... so this is really just a snap-shot.

Happy to share,

Maybe you can inspire me with your ideas.
Also, if you want more details on any of my exercises I'm happy to fire some your way.

Cheers,

Tim.

ps: I do occasionally have 'wobbles' but generally I've kept to this schedule pretty closely for the past 6-7 months, i still see improvement everyday so why stop ; )
April 16th, 2005, 09:01 PM
tgw_mobile

Hey Moosetication,

Just read your response to Matricks here. I think its brilliant that you have got back into such a great thing as drumming after quite a period away. Feels great, doesn't it?

Good luck with it!

Tim.
April 16th, 2005, 09:30 PM
matricks

Thanks guys for the responses... alot better than last time i tried this! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

... hey Tim, how do you get 8 hours a day AND work? Wow!
April 16th, 2005, 09:41 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi Matricks,

I know the bookshop owner, it's a cafe too... I just do a couple of hours a day.. I dont need money I need good technique!

T.
April 16th, 2005, 09:52 PM
five eight

That's a respectable practice regimen! During your breaks, Tim, do you ever suffer a heart attack? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
April 16th, 2005, 10:32 PM
tgw_mobile

5/8... only when working in 5/16 [img]tongue.gif[/img]
April 16th, 2005, 10:51 PM
matricks

How much of the 8 hours would you say is extreme-focused practice? I can't imagine being focused for 8 hours a day, months on end [img]confused.gif[/img]

Would you say that some of time is muscle memory, zone out practice on the pad stuff? As i said, i can't be focused for much longer than a consistent average of 3 hours a day... focused as in on the verge of losing my mind due to mental stress... i can't fathom eight hours of that. That would be like being an air traffic controller. [img]eek.gif[/img]
April 16th, 2005, 11:10 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi Matricks,

To answers your questions, there is a certain amount of repetition. I have used certain techniques to get me through the boring stuff:

I downloaded loads of lectures (audio only, no music to screw up the time).. so I;ve learnt about lots of stuff whilst doing certain finger / hand or foot exercises ; )

I dont believe in watching movies while practicing.. in fact I often lower the lights in my practice room to get into a kind of meditative state and avoid visual disturbance. Steve Smith talks about that on his DVD, I've done it for years and it helps with focus.

Also if I am only really focused for 6-7 hours at least no-one will die, unlike an air traffic controller ; ) ~(and they have computers to tell them to waken up!)

My intense practice comes from being the age I am and realising that if I dont do it now I never will.

I dont advocate this kind of practice to anyone else, it just happens to be right for me...

I guess I should say that 80-90% of the time I am pretty focused... I like to see the results, and I dont like not being able to perform things that I can hear...

T.
April 16th, 2005, 11:27 PM
troutbrooke

The only way anyone can get in more than 2 or 3 hours a day is if he is either in prison, or has NO other interests, friends, commitments or family.

I WISH I could practice every day, but for the last 5 years, I'm lucky if I can get in an hour a month. I'm currently shopping for a house though, so that may change.

When I DID own a house, I would practice about 3 hours a week and back in my first 5 years of playing (when I lived with my parents) I used to practice around 5 hours a week.
April 16th, 2005, 11:47 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi drumming sort of person,

I'm not sure I agree with your opinion that one cannot practice more than three hours a day and not have a life. How do you describe someone who works in a company essentially paying their bosses mortage, and working normal 8 hr days... These are often people with wives, husbands, kids etc... are they abnormal?

For me it is less abnormal to dedicate your time to an art form, if you have a talent for it, and there is no reason why - in the technologically advanced societies a few of us lucky humans share - that we cant work a little, practice alot and play alot.

I practice drums pretty much full-time but I also love books, I have a collection of over 4,000... I read at the weekends, I work a couple of hours a day in a very cool bookshop / cafe where i get to meet great people, hang for a while and go to various events. but my focus is always on improving my core skills as a drummer.

That is my centre... and a huge part of my life.

Regards,

Tim
April 17th, 2005, 12:07 AM
Suspiria

I think Tim forgot to mention he is part machine in his introductory post [img]wink.gif[/img]
On a more serious note, that routine is really elaborate and like you said, not for everyone to copy.
April 17th, 2005, 12:08 AM
troutbrooke

Tim, in NO way was I saying that you were abnormal or anything less than a great guy...

I'm sorry if I came across as a self-righteous idiot. If anything, I am TOTALLY jealous of your situation and I admire your dedication and discipline in being able to make such excellent use of your unique situation.

But for MOST of us, I believe that anything more than a few hours a day could do more harm than good. I believe that it is equally important to LISTEN to great music and to PLAY with other musicians (even other drummers) in order to foster our ability to communicate on the instrument.
April 17th, 2005, 12:16 AM
tgw_mobile

Hi Drumming sort of person,
I totally agree with you, and apologies if I got on my high horse [img]wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

But for MOST of us, I believe that anything more than a few hours a day could do more harm than good. I believe that it is equally important to LISTEN to great music and to PLAY with other musicians (even other drummers) in order to foster our ability to communicate on the instrument.

Very true. Playing with other people, as my first ever teacher taught me, is like the difference between masturbating and f**king... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I've given up a nice apartment etc.. to do this, but I just feel that it is right for me.

ciao,

Tim.
April 17th, 2005, 12:20 AM
tgw_mobile

I wanted to add that the main reaon I posted my current schedule was because Matricks said he hadnt got much of a response before so I thought I would be really up front and just go through what I am doing, in a really open way...

tim.
April 17th, 2005, 01:10 AM
matricks

Quote:

Very true. Playing with other people, as my first ever teacher taught me, is like the difference between masturbating and f**king...

Haha... Tony said that in a clinic once, but instead it was that "Practicing the same thing is like... well, it is like j*rking off"... indeed [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Quote:

I wanted to add that the main reaon I posted my current schedule was because Matricks said he hadnt got much of a response before so I thought I would be really up front and just go through what I am doing, in a really open way...

And it is CERTAINLY appreciated! I love hearing how much others practice because it reminds me that other people are spending time uncovering new things, discovering new things about themselves and their playing... to me that inspires me to do the same, not settle for 'kinda trying to be really good' [img]wink.gif[/img]

It is appreciated, everyone's comments are appreciated because i didn't start this topic to throw down the practice gauntlet (and if i did, well, Tim's got me beat for sure!), i did it so that others, including myself, can have an idea of what is going on as far as this goes. I get VERY inspired when i hear a great player and they say that they never really practiced more than (fill in the blank)... shows me that working on the right thing and also working on other types of practicing (i.e. listening) go a long way. On the other hand, hearing how Virgil or Weckl can bust their ass all day long, that kicks my ass in another way and reminds me to not use *Drummer A* who only practices (blank) amount of time, yet is still great, as and excuse to not hit the shed and work it out.

No information is bad information [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
April 17th, 2005, 02:52 AM
r_navega

Some drummers say they don't practice very much anymore but I'm sure they practiced a lot in the past, unless they are genius (they develop ideas in real time, i.e., playing with other people) or get a 'divine inspiration'. In my case, I have to work hard on drums and I try to use a good portion of my free time. Because I have a day job, I can only study for 1-3 hours daily. My practice regimen changes from time to time, according to my needs. I've studied many books, such as those from Chaffee, Gratton, Riley, Duduka, etc. but now I think I need to improve my musicianship. So, lately I start my practice with some stretching (that is very important!) and some warm-up exercises (e.g., Moeller, sticking variations, rudiments or even some grooves). Then, I study some written grooves or phrases or jazz comping exercises (many of them are exercises or transcriptions made by myself) and try to improvise using them (I want to enlarge my vocabulary). Later, I play along with some CDs. When I play along, I use different approaches:
1 - I keep a repetitive groove, with few variations (in order to get consistency of performance).
2 - I play around a groove, trying new ideas.
3 - I play a groove with different and improvised fills.
4 - I apply 'crazy ideas', like metric modulations, 'over the bar line' phrases, polyrhythms etc.
5 - I try to insert studied ideas in my playing ('Rational approach')
6 - I play 'from my heart' (without pre-conceived ideas. 'Musical approach').
7 - I mix different approaches.

Currently, I've been studying samba-jazz, straigth-ahead jazz and linear stuff. Now I'm going to start some foundational studies (thanks to Tim Wilson!). I play with two bands (jazz and prog rock styles).
When my free time is too short (lately, I've had many problems to solve) I only do some stretching and play along recordings, without doing technique studies. Sometimes, when I'm very tired to play drums, I make transcriptions.
I love music and drums (I have a BIG CD collection) but I think life outside drums is VERY important too, you need to get inspirations from other sources, even non-musical ones ('Variety is the slice of life'). So, I take English classes (my native language is Portuguese), I LOVE reading (literature, phylosophy, psychology, science etc.), European and independent movies (I love Bu?uel ones!), painting and arts in general (I'm a great fan of surrealist art, Escher, Kandinsky etc.). And at last but not least, I have a lovely girlfriend [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[ April 17, 2005 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Navega ]
April 17th, 2005, 04:06 AM
S.P

Anything more than an hour a day for me was a bonus , but since i started thinking about taking music i practice maybe 2-3 hours a day. It depends really because sometimes i will get bored and theres no point in practicing when you are bored.

i've heard this quote somewhere, its at the time where Vinnie was practicing insane amounts of time.

Vinnie: "Hey Billy, How many hours do you think i should practice everyday."

Billy: "Practice only until you stop having fun, my young padawan"

i use that as a guideline to practice...but i also believe in strict no messing about practice....

3 hours of strict focused practice can be a lot more useful than 8 hours of unfocused sloppy practice.

Also remember, practicing everyday is very important, it is very easy to loose the ability to paly things or at least some of it when you stop pracitcing even for short periods of time. Mental practice is also important, go over things which you are doing in your head whilst your on the bus or in bed trying to get to sleep

[ April 17, 2005 01:08 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]
April 17th, 2005, 05:10 AM
five eight

While unemployed I'd practice 60 hours a week and found absolutely no place at all to insert any hip drum shit with guitarists who practiced only when the band rehearsed. But I discovered the longer I played the deeper my pocket would get so I'd practice two to four hours on the day of a gig before loading up, when in days gone by I'd shuffle through the house in my slippers and bathrobe muttering in monosyallbles to any of my loved ones who dared engage me in conversation while I psyched up for a gig. I think it helped, but worst case scenario it drained off some of the insane energy anyway.

SP's comments made me think of a drummer I know who just 'thought' about his parts before he went out and played. He called it mental practice. I can't fault that, he's a lot better drummer than I am.
April 17th, 2005, 05:51 AM
S.P

i've actualy been like sort of mentally soloing in my head whilst in bed trying to get to sleep thinking and I came up with a lick in my head i had never heard before and i remembered it the day after and was able to play it hahaha...its weird dont ask me how but it happened...it was probably as a result though of having heard it somewhere but not having processed the information consciously and then it came out when i was thinking in bed...
April 17th, 2005, 01:13 PM
tgw_mobile

Hi Navega,

Thanks for the kind words and I agree with you about balance in life. Although I practice alot I too have alot of interests, and try to keep a few hours a week free to explore them.
As far as Brazilian music goes currently I am listening to Edison Machado! (Your recommendation) - thanks [img]wink.gif[/img]
His style is very authentic and loose, very different from my approach but that is just what I want to hear. I have friends in a Samba school in london who play the snare drum very like him... In terms of 'classical' hand technique they have very little but the sound and feel of everyone together is totally amazing. I love it. I remember when Brazil won the world cup (Penta Campion! or something) [img]smile.gif[/img] we all went to central London and the Samba was like Rio... it was intense man.. hundreds of musicians showed up!

I would love to hear or see a transcription of 1 or 2 of your fav samba / jazz type rhythms.

I'm also very interested in the nuances of samba on the drum set... feeling the bass drum in 2 and accenting every other on-beat x..xX...xx..xX etc..

take care,

Tim.
April 17th, 2005, 03:08 PM
r_navega

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim_Wilson:
I also do some transcribing and listening... I am a big fan of Brazilian music, so currently I am listening to lots and lots of Brazilian smusic.

Hi Tim, I'm sure you'll get good results. I wish I could study 8 hours a day, I used to do that years ago (But I'm happy with my 1-3 hours now!). What Brazilian recordings have you been listening to?
April 17th, 2005, 04:31 PM
r_navega

[ April 17, 2005 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Navega ]
April 17th, 2005, 04:51 PM
r_navega

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim_Wilson:
I remember when Brazil won the world cup (Penta Campion! or something) [img]smile.gif[/img] we all went to central London and the Samba was like Rio... it was intense man.. hundreds of musicians showed up!.

I'd like to be there!

Quote:

I would love to hear or see a transcription of 1 or 2 of your fav samba / jazz type rhythms.

I included here two of my favorite sequences:

1 - Ted Moore - like I said before, he has a genuine feel for Brazilian music. Note his tasteful hi-hat openings and bass drum variations in this 'bossa nova'.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/425d1522...sNqYCB5rlXMOpS

2 - Edison Machado - some of his typical phrases are here

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/425d1522...86pYCBswOVAUSS