These blew me away. The over the barline phrasing the fresh funky approach to cuban clave. I'm so glad he finally put up videos.
The sound and quality isn't the best, but I think you guys will love it.
http://www.stevehass.net/video.html
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These blew me away. The over the barline phrasing the fresh funky approach to cuban clave. I'm so glad he finally put up videos.
The sound and quality isn't the best, but I think you guys will love it.
http://www.stevehass.net/video.html
Thanks for posting that PF! I like the metric mods on the last video. Very cool the way each modulation affects the perception of the that vibe figure. Nice!
Thanks for the excellent links! I just don't listen to this guy enough. Can't wait to watch these!
HOLY #&*( !!
What creative use of rhythm. What great accompaniment. Man, I'm speachless. What the hell is he playing? I can always figure shit out. Vinnie, Dave, even Carlock, but this time...no...I have no idea how he fits those phrases in there and how he's filling in between. ???? WOW
SDK
yea I know it's humbling isn't it?
well I got some of it. He likes using different groupings like 5,7,9,11 etc, and playing them in triplet. But because the accents repeat after an odd number of beats, this gives the illusion. Other than that he's from outerspace. Especially because, yes he has ridiculous chops etc..but the real deal is, he's playing the form, builing the music and supporting the soloist. The fact that he's pulling sick shit in the mean while is a plus. My fav is #3 where he's playing more time. The solos are amazing but I've seen him live before. However, interaction is different everytime with a real musician who can improvise. And man does he make sense musically with all that stuff. I have to watch it again. HA!
I just don't understand how he can pull that stuff off and make it sound so good......sick and sickening.
Glad to see Steve get "discovered". I've been listening to him for awhile. Good to see him getting props.
The playing on the bottom-right clip is out of this world. Nothing but respect from me.
PS: Doesn't he get a soar neck playing like that? The only thing to critisize might be to losen up a little. Then again, who am I to judge how a drummer should sit.
Wow. Great stuff. He has an uncanny ability to groove many different ways at the drop of a dime.
Philly, Hass has been mentioned in here quite a bit. Where have you seen him play?
Thanks for the heads up Flam! I still can't hear it. I lose the time when I'm listening to anything but the vibes ostinato pattern.
If you're interested in seeing HASS' updated drummers world page with his Yamaha set up check this out:
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Steve_Hass.html
Cheers PF, great playing by Steve, lovely phrasing and dynamics too.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
Sweet, of course.
Re: that 4th clip...Weckl [& Horacio] can murder this type of stuff in his own way all day long AW... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Toying w you guys... [img]wink.gif[/img]
Great playing by Hass.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 03:15 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Sounds great- much better than the clips off of his CD, I think. I'm a believer now...
I can see that Keith Carlock has had an influence on him(me too for that matter)...
wow. thanks for the humbling. i love his positive energy and musicality. you can also tell from his photos that he's a cool person to work with. his playing is great as well! seriously kicks hass! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I see a lot of Carlock, but I also see him doing rudiments split b/wn SD and his ride, I'm a big fan of that application, and it's cool to see him doing swiss triplets and mills like that.
It sounds BITCHEN.
I thought he was just well-packaged...but the guys got something...I admit it...
It's so funny how the media plays huge part in what we think we know. I've been checking out Hass since his Berklee days. He was playing this way, a long time before Carlock hit the scene.
I also remember seeing Carlock at every Ravi Coltrane at the Jazz Standard for the whole week Ravi was there with Steve on drums. Kieth doesn't play jazz or latin. I think you have it backwards with who's taking from who. Especially since Kieth rarely phrases in odd groupings using different not values.
If anything Steve comes out of Tony, Elvin, Vinnie and Tain.
BTW, those clips are an amazing display of how to play sick shit while not getting in the way. Almost everytime I hear any drummer try to pull off rhythm like that(vince included) the focus moves from the soloist to the drummer. Hass compliments . I love those clips and that band for that matter.
cjbdrm,
I disagree completely. His CD clips are amazingly musical. Maybe it's the fact that they're not as drumistic as the video clips. But how another musician can't recognize the groove, layering of the instrumentation, and production of HASS' solo album is beyond me. It's the best sounding "drummer produced" C.D I've ever heard. Sounds like a drummer DIDN'T produce it if you know what I mean.
I wonder what you think of player like Abe Laboriel Jr., Shawn Pelton, or Jim Keltner who ONLY play grooves similar to what's on HASS' CD. I love the HASS clips that Para posted, but man, gimmie Hass playing" Boom Boom Smack" over that anytime.
Wow, how taste varies...the clips did nothing for me musically, or stylistically. A+ for effort however.
yes it's an sort of an acquired taste style of drumming in a way. If you're unaware of how he's making all these complex rhythms work in a musical setting such as Manhattan Vibes then it's not going hit you. This type of improvisation is not for everyone. For instance on piano if you like Bud Powell, you're not going to get anything Herbie Hancock plays. I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms. You also have to like jazz and latin jazz because this particular band is of that style. I myself love players that take a phrase, rip it apart and build on it. In my humble opinion, the flurry of hand and foot insanity at the end of clip #2 is undeniebly monsterous, whether you like it or not. HA! But again, if you don't understand what it takes to play that and how amazing it is to play it accurately and musically over a song form, you'll hear a wall of sound rather than a rainbow of rhythm.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah, I can hear it...it just doesn't excite me. Vinnie live at the Blue Note Tokyo with the CCAB DVD, track two. That's a strong musical statement I can connect to, as well as almost anything by Trilok Gurtu.Quote:
I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 06:56 PM: Message edited by: avi_bb ]</font>
I guess everyone has his own opinion. I'm the worlds biggest Vinnie fan, but I can't stand it when he plays jazz. To me players like Tain and Hass make the same rhythmic concepts swing, that Vinnie doesn't. Of course I've read quotes from both of them speaking highly of Vinnie as we all do. But he does not have that jazz thing. So we differ there. Especially within the form. Vinnies solos on that DVD are free of the song form, which for me, when a drummer cops out on the form, it takes away from everything he's playing because you can't relate it to the song.
Trilok, is amazing. period.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow...Quote:
Originally posted by Paraflam:
If you're unaware of how he's making all these complex rhythms work in a musical setting such as Manhattan Vibes then it's not going hit you.
For instance on piano if you like Bud Powell, you're not going to get anything Herbie Hancock plays.
I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms.
You also have to like jazz and latin jazz because this particular band is of that style.
But again, if you don't understand what it takes to play that and how amazing it is to play it accurately and musically over a song form, you'll hear a wall of sound rather than a rainbow of rhythm.
Are you sure you meant to be that condesending?!?! Are you basically saying people may not like this because they either can't play it, or don't understand it? I must be mistaken, you can't possibly be suggesting that... [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img]
I enjoy what Bud Powell bringsd toi the table in that he's an entertainer, but one of my all time dream gigs would be to play with Hancock!!
I love jazz and Latin, and Latin jazz, but for me too, this did nothing. I can totally appreciate the level of technique that this takes, (Lord only knows I have studied long enough to be able to do it [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) but that doesn't mean because he can, he should. I don't like these vids too much. Does that mean I don't understand it?
I'm not dissing this at all, I think Steve is a massive player, and I'd love to hear his solo CD, but this really didn't do it for me. As far as complimenting the soloist, I didn't see too much of that, rather distracting infact... I, like SDK love hearing his groove-ass playing over this any day of the week...
Please, before I get ripped apart, I must impress on you that this is my own humble opinion. I don't need to tell you what a fine, dynamic, sensitive player (full to the brim of chops too) Steve Hass is.
The only quarm I have with this whole thread is the fact that you have assumed that people who don't like it don't understand it. Not cool bro'...
I pray I'm wrong, and if I am, please forgive me, but I couldn't let that lie...
MP
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just a question, have you heard any of the Randy Waldman stuff? Especially the last one. Or how about that Jeff Beal album Three Graces.Quote:
Originally posted by SDK:
I guess everyone has his own opinion. I'm the worlds biggest Vinnie fan... But he does not have that jazz thing.
I guess I have to say I don't agree with your opinion at all. Some dudes may fit into a jazz situation better than Vinnie, but saying he doesn't have that jazz thing is absurd.
It wasn't at all condescending. People have different tastes. I've been teaching and playing music longer than most of you have been alive, so when I hear someone playing perfect time, improvising his ass off in the polyrythmic vain of Herbie and some Indian drummers along with question and answer phrasing, I say, that's the shit! So obviously if someone says to me well..I just don't get it, does nothing for me. Well then I say it went over your head. I get it. Why don't you get it? If you can't see it or hear it. It's fine. I don't think i'm better or anything like that. I just understand where he's coming from. And i also know the jazz language and latin language. Hass with his funky modern almost ECMish latin grooves, still uses key cuban phrases. Did you hear them? Doing all this while putting in that "out" over the bar line phrasing, is very impressive to me. It's undeniebly good. If someone denies it, I assume they can't hear it, or they're purposely being stubborn about it. Vinnie get's it. When I saw Hass play at the Baked Potato when I lived in LA back in 1998, Vinnie was in the front row. Almost 10years ago.
I get frustrated because I love rhythm and the way you can manipulate it in jazz and over forms, finally some young players come along that pretty ridiculous and people are like ummm duh, does nothing for me.
But honestly, I don't mean to be a hard ass, or push my opinion. There are enough of us here that do get it. Those of you who think you understand. Transcribe what he's playing in clips 2 and 4.
Damn Parahead, you didn't look that old at Birdland. You must workout. I sort of agree with everyone. There are a few stupid comments like " this guy's amazing, but I don't understand what he's playing". Sounds like you're afraid to speak your mind.
Anyhow, I myself am floored by these Para. So don't worry about what others say. Obviously what we think is what the music industry thinks because he wouldn't be playing with the worlds greatest musicians everyday of his life. Anyone as in demand as this guy in all the different styles doesn't need to be defended on some drum board. The clips are amazing, original and 100% Hass. So who cares? Relax my man. Remember when Carlock got his ass kicked in here? HA! If you're not a fast single stroking gospel drummer, Dave or Vinnie, then someone going to make an uneducated comment. Let them. Shawn Pelton is hardly ever mentioned on here, take Vinnie's discography, triple it, and minus 15years off his career and that's Shawn. But still. Nothing about him unless it's from us.
Just enjoy the knowledge on here, and forget the bullshit. Where's Peter when you need him?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Even though Vinnie has sited Tony as his biggest influence, he still swings like a fusion drummer. Don't get me wrong, I love the Randy Waldman records , but you can't eben begin to compare Vinnies' jazz feel with Tain, Elvin, Billy Higgins, Bill Stewart, Tony etc etc... these are jazz musicians and play soley jazz. They don't tour with Sting, do late night show bands, jingles for McD's or film scores.Quote:
Just a question, have you heard any of the Randy Waldman stuff? Especially the last one.
Even though Vinnie is without doubt one of my favourite drummers, I would rather hear a whole number of other players SWING than him. As far as I'm concerned for feel and phrasing, he can't touch Tain with a shitty stick. Vinnie just hasn't got the history and vibe in his jazz feel that Blade, Tain and Stewart have.
Dazzler man. You nailed it. That's why I'm so impressed with Hass. Praised by Tain, Blade and others, he's got that feel. Having toured with Christian McBride, Ravi Coltrane, Bob Berg, and so many who need that SWING. If someone has that THING we're speaking of, that history in their time feel, yet they can cross over and play the shit out of fusion and funk, that to me is an amazing feat. Hass was Tains sub at the zinc bar for 3 years before he started getting all this studio fame.
Thanks dazzler, someone get the history of our music. A Brit! haha!
I just went back for a fourth viewing to try and understand where a couple of people on this thread are coming from.
My conclusion is that I shit my pants again. What the hell is he doing at the end of clip 2? 16th note triplets but in different groupings that change every 4 bars or so. So fluid so clear and strong. Just that alone is sick. Anyone having anything bad to say should maybe learn that shit, and then teach it to me! Anyone who can play like that has no down side. He'll just keep growing at his age.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tain was the Tonight Show Band drummer (one of the biggest talk shows in N. America btw), after Ed Shaughnessy. From what I heard, his early playing influences were also rooted in fusion and possibly classical percussion. You might want to re-evaluate your definition of a 'pure' swing jazz drummer. Some people are not so quick to buy into stereotypes.Quote:
Tain..Tony etc etc... these are jazz musicians and play soley jazz. They don't tour with Sting, do late night show bands
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 10:37 PM: Message edited by: avi_bb ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL!! Cheers. It's true though, as much as we love Vinnie, he still swings like a fusion player and isn't steeped in the tradition as the guys I've mentioned. You won't hear him play an Elvin send off for example or Bop phrasing as it simply isn't in his vocabulary. This isn't a critisism, it's an observation.Quote:
Thanks dazzler, someone get the history of our music. A Brit! haha!
The same can be said for his latin playing. He obviously has a concept of clave, but you'll never hear him play off it like a cuban musician or someone that has spent years studying all the various percussive components that make up mambo, songo etc etc... his playing is once again a fusion hybrid. Don't get me wrong, it's still wicked but Vinnie simply isn't steeped in the tradition of certain musical styles as some would like to believe.
AVI is right about Tainish's roots. But don't re evaluate. He's wrong there. Because almost all of today's hard swingin cats began backwards. Meaning they didn't start playing jazz. Doens't mean that Tain doesn't phrase in the tradition. he sure does. And fusion? what does that mean. Tony was a fusion drummer after the 60s. Still doesn't mean Vinnie has that feel. He doesn't, if he did, he's be doing those gigs or would have done those gigs at some point. Chick is as high profile jazz as he ever got. And Chick aint a swinger.
I very much enjoy his playing. He's a simple part player with that extra slinky groove. I love RIngo as well. I guess I love anyone who really makes music sound good, whether they're choppy or not.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you notice in the 4th clip, he was so far out there the rest of the band seemed a little lost until he came back to Earth. He even had a false start himself.Quote:
Originally posted by GaryL:
I just don't understand how he can pull that stuff off and make it sound so good......sick and sickening.
If not for this forum, I'd have never heard of this guy.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 12, 2005 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow...Quote:
Originally posted by Groovemeister:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Paraflam:
If you're unaware of how he's making all these complex rhythms work in a musical setting such as Manhattan Vibes then it's not going hit you.
For instance on piano if you like Bud Powell, you're not going to get anything Herbie Hancock plays.
I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms.
You also have to like jazz and latin jazz because this particular band is of that style.
But again, if you don't understand what it takes to play that and how amazing it is to play it accurately and musically over a song form, you'll hear a wall of sound rather than a rainbow of rhythm.
Are you sure you meant to be that condesending?!?! Are you basically saying people may not like this because they either can't play it, or don't understand it? I must be mistaken, you can't possibly be suggesting that... [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img]
I enjoy what Bud Powell bringsd toi the table in that he's an entertainer, but one of my all time dream gigs would be to play with Hancock!!
I love jazz and Latin, and Latin jazz, but for me too, this did nothing. I can totally appreciate the level of technique that this takes, (Lord only knows I have studied long enough to be able to do it [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) but that doesn't mean because he can, he should. I don't like these vids too much. Does that mean I don't understand it?
I'm not dissing this at all, I think Steve is a massive player, and I'd love to hear his solo CD, but this really didn't do it for me. As far as complimenting the soloist, I didn't see too much of that, rather distracting infact... I, like SDK love hearing his groove-ass playing over this any day of the week...
Please, before I get ripped apart, I must impress on you that this is my own humble opinion. I don't need to tell you what a fine, dynamic, sensitive player (full to the brim of chops too) Steve Hass is.
The only quarm I have with this whole thread is the fact that you have assumed that people who don't like it don't understand it. Not cool bro'...
I pray I'm wrong, and if I am, please forgive me, but I couldn't let that lie...
MP</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't understand 1/2 of it . . . and I still loved it. It will take some time for me to really understand it. But, I like it and admire it at the same time that I don't understand all of it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">RE: SP's resume:Quote:
Remember when Carlock got his ass kicked in here? HA! If you're not a fast single stroking gospel drummer, Dave or Vinnie, then someone going to make an uneducated comment. Let them. Shawn Pelton is hardly ever mentioned on here, take Vinnie's discography, triple it, and minus 15years off his career and that's Shawn
Shawn is heavily recorded [& a good player btw]. Why? Because he's a pro & he grooves & w good time for the music called for...but most notably, because most session calls are for music that the mass populace can relate to.
No off, but if it's a fusion gig, or if you're talking about really true advancements on the instrument or in the art form, Shawn cannot hold a flicker of a burning ember to Vinnie. And this site was started & designated about the drummers who have done more to excel, advance, or change the art, namely two, Vinnie & Weckl. Hass is def in there AW. Pelton? I think not.
Does this mean I am dismissing SP's playing entirely? NO, of course not. Can he groove in time? YES. But to say that guys in here are slamming SP just becaude he isn't mentioned as much as the others is slightly generalized. BTW - I don't find him setting any precedents in ANY WAY SHAPE or FORM as are Vinnie, Weckl, & well, Hass. He's not capable of doing anything that thousands of other drummers aren't also capable of doing, if they had his situation. But am I saying I don't like his playing? Heck no. He does a great job on everything he's called for. I'm just relating it to the nature of the inception of this site ["credo" of which you will find on SH's HOD].
We've spoken plenty about guys who don't have 1/10th the capabilty [or facility] as VC & DW...JR, Marottas, Mickey Curry, Abe Jr, all FANTASTIC groovers & musicians. And we speak of the GADDness all the time - the darn near perfect blend of groove, time, chops, musicality, & tastefulness. But even he can't touch Dave or Vinnie in the unbridled drumming territiry, altho he indeed is one of the guys that advanced it enough to lead to those 2 guys. Am I saying that if something isn't always displaying the facility capable of VC or DW, it isn't any good? Of COURSE not.
To say because someone may not like something because they don't understand it is also an opinionated generalism, & one that cannot be 100% true. However, I also tend to apply this line of reasoning when it comes to, say, Virgil-bashing AW. It just seems that some peeps just "aren't getting it." They may NOT understand it indeed; however, it doesn't automatically qualify them as not understanding it, even tho they may [or may not].
I do agree w the statements made about VC's jazz playing. However, it doesn't mean that I like it any less than Tain! [& Tain is a REAL bad mofro!] It's just diff - & Vinnie!
However, I also don't think even TONY swung like some of the more "authentic" & hard swinging cats, sorry. He was leaning toward the modern contempo feel, but w strong roots in the traditional & "old school" at the same time. If you want to break it down to "who swung harder than who, then TW is def not at the top of that list, altho he swung hard in his own style when he did. But he is known mostly for his forever & uncannily changing the face of the modern approach to drumming as we know it today, as much or maybe more than any other [along w the likes of Gadd, Elvin, & such; even tho, again in turn, stylistically, each of these brought their "own thing" to the table].
Every guy has a diff feel & approach, altho some may be similar. It's all good, if it's good.
[BTW, i was one of those folks that supported Carlock AW [img]wink.gif[/img] Groundbreaking like VC or DW? Prob not. Good player? Why, yes...]
I quote again [paraphrase, more like it] from one of the true masters: "don't compare one player or style/genre of music to another's standards; just simply listen to it according to its own merit[s]" [& discern it accordingly] - ELVIN JONES.
[For instance, it would be silly of me to listen to Planet X & then say out loud, "yeah, but it doesn't swing," or, "where's the clave?" [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] ...well...duh...it's not swing [or latin]; it's prog-rock-fusion. But I'm also not saying that there isn't any rock or fusion out there that doesn't have elements of swing either. But I don't think for a second that Virg couldn't handle the LF clave thing, technically; whether or not he would "feel" it like a genre "ethno-purist" is another topic!! ;c)]
BTW [again], It almost did sound as if the vibes or other players started to get off it a little bit when Hass started going off in that one clip...but that didn't deter Hass, now, did it? [img]wink.gif[/img]
Wreckl loves to do this kind of stuff in the same context, altho it would appear SH has a much more ethnicity of stylistic foundation in the genre...doesn't make DW any less enjoyable for me tho, either! I do think SH did play a couple of things that jumped out & left the context as if to drummistically say "hello - I'm here" [I can't say that I've never done that at one time or another, either! Doh! ;c)]...but he also played a lot of nods to the song form & genre...he's a great player, & additon to the art form nonetheless, no doubt. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 13, 2005 01:39 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Nice
Well said Fuse.
Henry there are no false starts and the band is not lost on any of the clips. I see the truth in the statement made, that sometimes when you're not aware of what's being played you may even think it was a mistake, when it clearly wasn't.
I don't think Hass or any other drummer would put a video up that had any errors in it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hass didn't make a mistake, indeed...but I think the vibes player was starting to lose the count slightly, but it didn't really detract from the overall effect...Hass just simply "forced everyone back onto the playing field" [img]wink.gif[/img] ...I could be wrong - I really have to go back & listen with more intent again [in pure uninterrupted silence this time!]... [img]wink.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by SDK:
I don't think Hass or any other drummer would put a video up that had any errors in it.
The way I heard it, everything lined up great! It's really tough to execute that shit live without a click. Takes a lot of trust/confidence. These guys know what is up! Hass is great. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Wow Fuse and Terry you guys must be great drummers. I thought I heard the vibes slip out of about one second. I was able to tell more from the look on Mike Pope's face. You know he was on the road with DWeckl for a while with the Electric Band.