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I don't know about any of you, but this argument pisses me off so much.
I was setting up for rehersal with the steel drum band at my college when I noticed an extra tom around. I thought I would set it up as a second floor tom. Well in the process, this older guy that plays bass tells me all the greats didn't need that many toms. Anyways, this just made me mad for two reasons.
1. This guy plays bass( not guitar) Bass Pans. What the hell does he have to say about me setting up one extra drum on a set with 2 toms and a ride.
2. All the greats didn't play 4 piece kits. I gave him references to Tony and Elvin and how their set ups varied over the years among others.
I just seem to get this from players other than drummers. In my opinion one more drum gives you one more voice to make more music with. It's not like I was setting up Portnoy's monster. The fact is it's the player not the set. I know he was thinking something along the line of that I should be able to play the gig with a snare kick hi hat and ride. Well I can, I just want to have a little more fun. I just think that in the 21st century drummers shouldn't be getting flack for bring more than 2 toms to a gig.
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Don?t sweat it too much bro. I?m sure your playing can back up your argument. My last singer was always trying to convince me to scale down, but because the drummer that I am, It didn?t feel right. Life?s about distant opinions that will challenge yours and their outlook. No matter what, be yourself and do things YOUR way. Hey, Instead of a tom, I chose to get rid of the singer [img]smile.gif[/img] and have never been happier?
Peace, Sammy J
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Drumdawg ]</font>
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It just makes it more obious that he's more insecure about HIS abilities than YOURS.
I haven't experienced it from Bass players, but i've really experienced it from Horn sections.
They've told me "that and that drummer, never does that etc. " And I told them, THAT's the way i Play, and if they don't like it, i'll bail. After that i've been told in town, that they want their Drummers in their other bands, to set-up their drums like me. So don't worry about it.
Tell them: "Do you want me for the gig, because of my drum set-up, or because of the way i play drums"
Don't worry about it mate, you'll do great on that gig, and they'll love to have you in it. Bad thing is. They only tell you when you consider leaving the band.
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Interesting... I agree with the other posts, I wouldn't get worried about his comments, if you feel like an extra floor tom, so what, as long as it serves a musical purpose.
Theres one drummer that posted their set ups on here a while back and they had three kits for all different sorts of gigs, the last one having more drums, pedals and cymbals than you copuld shake a stick at. I think this was his 'clinic kit'. I'm sorry but I had to laugh. For me, if you can't make music with limited gear then theres no point in hiding behind tonnes of drums and cymbals, even if you've got chops of doom. It's all drum wank and I won't be a part of it.
Steve Jordan sat behind a bass drum, snare and a ride cymbal at the Grammies with John Mayer and it felt soooo good it was untrue, because of his intent and vibe. When I take a look at some of these ridiculous set ups, I have to wonder what the thought process is behind them and also if the music would suffer greatly if the kit was to be stripped down. I would think not.
The other point is this: if one does have loads of drums, pedals and cymbals, are they oblidged to hit or use them all? Would an otherwise simple and musical fill be substituted for a stoopid double bass, all singing and dancing multi-tom fill just because they are there? Personally I wouldn't know what to do with loads of gear, but I bet I can say more than enough with a BD, snare and maybe a tom!
Apart from a HUGE pop arena tour or a heavy fusion gig, who can be arsed to take all that shit into a session or local pub to play with a jazz trio or to back a singer? Other musicians would (and rightly so) piss themselves upon seeing the drummer get out his floor plan and spanner set just to set up his monster kit!
It's like this: If you can't articulate yourself with limited vocabulary or equipment then adding more to the equation is a futile process. As one esteemed drum educator in the UK once said, "I think someone's missing the point here! Give me a box of matches and I'll make music for you now!"
nice.
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Drumdawg!!! lol!!!
That's probably the best advice. But really.... listening to guys that do nothing but music for a living, I guess you gotta do what the "boss" wants you to do until you are writing your own paychecks, or you're some drumgod that is so in demand, which again, is kinda like writing your own paycheck too.
I suggest you phone Terri Bozzio and see if you can borrow his set for these particular gigs. That'll really piss these guys with their "opinions" off!!
But Deep FRieD.. there's always hope. I got flack from some band leaders and singers about my set up at times, and after a while, when people started to know me at a gig, I'd have people going up to the band leader saying, "Hey.. that new drummer of yours sounds and plays so much better than the last one you had!!". Then you KNOW you're doing the right thing.
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I personally believe in "less is more". I've been playing a 4 piece kit for years now. That doesn't mean I have anything against drummers that go for more drums. Another band member complaing about an extra floor tom is strange - I wouldn't let it get to you, although it must be hard.
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Thanks for the feed back ya'll
anyways, I didn't really take to much of what he said seriously. I just think he doesn't like my playing, but can't grow the testes to tell me it flat out. I'll just sit around and play my calypsos and socas without any worries. Good times!
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i gig all the time with...kik...rack...floor...hats...ride...crash and splash...(all of the voices i can ever need)
the odd time i use a 10" jungle snare to the left of my hats....but i can and love to use just kik snare and hats....but the full kit is mostly used in the top 40 setting........
I do believe less is more and a 4 pc is more than enough.....those who bring a kit with 3 racks and 10 cymbals or ?.....i guess ill see ya when im on my 3rd beer after the gig or the 3rd woman who turns me down........lol
I just like to get out early and set up less.....i guess im lazy giggin 2-5 nights a week......lol......but there is nothing wrong with bringing lots of gear or one more tom....as long as the groove and pocket is there and the music is paramount!!!....the rest is icing or a bit of candy to sweeten the cake!!
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I'm also one of the less-is-more guys. My setup has gone from a pretty large setup, to a setup of kick, rack, floor, snare, and I use a small aux. snare to the left of the hats, usually tuned up really tight and high-pitched (works great for hiphop stuff). But as these guys in the thread here said, if the drums/cymbals in your setup serve a musical purpose, then definetely go for it. There are some killer cats who play on a not-so-small setup. Weckl, Dennis, Carter Beauford (although that may be pushing it a little, but he makes it all so musical, so it really doesn't matter). It's all in what works best for you.
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I've played 9 piece kits and 4 piece kits. It's a matter of comfort, creativity, music and flow within the group. If the music's happening, it doesn't matter how many drums you have or don't have.
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LOL Dawg, WM [JM!], Dazz.
I'm w Andy.
I learned on a 5 pc - 2 racks & a FT, w 1 crash, 1 ride, 1 HHs.
I've gone from 1 rack & FT, to 3 rack & 2 FTs [w 3 crash: 1 hard-L, 1-hR, & 1 just off the "front of your face" to the [slight-] right, just L of the ride]; 1 quick-decay china-trash; 2 cup bell chimes [a la Wackerman], & 2 splashes [8/10; &/or 12, 14" mix].
As was said, you should be able to make music w minimum # of items, such as 1 TT, 1 FT, 1 or 2 crash / ride, HHs...or even smaller, like JORDAN did on the Grammies [suh-WEEEEt] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
But 1 more TT on your kit is no biggie...all the greats have or do use a basic 5 pc...
Don't sweat dumbscat talk like that, deep...many of us have "been there." Resolve to yourself that you ARE going to run into this sort of nonsense from time to time - the [unfortunate?! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ] inherent nature of being here, & human. I akin it to guys that bag on different styles than their own opinionated preferred - YADA YADA YADA, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Like the adults / teachers talking on the old Peanuts / Charlie Brown TV cartoons! "WAUH-WA-WA-WAUH-WA-WAUH"...[shut it] [img]tongue.gif[/img] But if it is your bandleader or the check-writer, then just smile & oblige [say "Bugger-Off" in your mind while u r smiling at them if you have to! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ] Because rem, as dawg said, they "ain't gonna always be around forever EITHER," yo...[unless it's a really BIG payday gig [img]wink.gif[/img] , & then the BL prob won't be so presumptuous anyway?!] ;c)
..."And now we continue with the regularly scheduled broadcast"...
Proceed as b4...
...Carry on [...as if nothing has happened]...;cp
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 13, 2005 04:51 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
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Let the music dictate your setup.
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Dazz,
You are a BIG fan of that Grammies Performance aren't you!!! Man, I don't blame you, so am I! I got the CD, but there's no drums on that particular track, (although Mayer plays with such great rhythm and time, it feels like there are) but Jordan and Matt Cameron are on the rest of it (with ?uestlove stepping in for one track too).
Andy V,
Totally with you too mate. If I'm playing in a pit for a show or something, I'll take sound effects that I'll need, it comes down simply to what suits the music...
MP
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Groovemeister!! WORD YO!!!
Watching Vince over the years.... he seems to have stuck to the basic 5 or 6 piece to say what he's got to say. 2 to 3 toms is good for me. Vince is using a Piccalo snare off to the left now I noticed. Depending on the gig, I'll have some percussion stuff clamped onto my B.D., HH stand, or have a tom/snare off to the left in case the gig has some cool HipHop sounding parts/grooves, or I want an xtra deep sounding tom off to the left. But it's like most have said here already, bring what the music requires and nothing more. Only you can answer the creative questions, that's why were all artists right?? I dunno.... there's always this dichotomy between the "professional" business like thing and the "creative/artistic" like thing. I guess it just depends on how much you care about adding your "thang" to the music or not.
A little off topic but.......
Been to many a jam nights here in L.A., and cannot believe the attrocious condition of the kits they have to play with. Sometimes I go to the club during the week with some new heads, some new screws, a drill, and some other hardware just to get the kit back into shape. Because listening to some of these terribly tuned or badly neglected kits sound like fingernails on the chalkboard to me.
